Power gap between r1 and r3 spells is too big (POLL)
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Actually that is kind of a big jump especially at the final stage. This is an issue because having a final skill and not having would matter greatly, effectively creating "levels" or "tiers" of players. To elevate this issue and create a better sense of smooth progression I believe that the numbers can be kept (because higher level mobs might require higher dmg) but the levels should be split into maybe 5 tiers.
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I'm worrying now, in pre-alpha, because they start testing with such a big DPS increase between rank 1 and rank 3.
If it was like 30% and it might go up or down a bit I would just wait and see how it plays out and give feedback while testing.
But with 150% more (yeah 250 was total, my bad) the whole idea that a new player can be competitive vs veteran players goes right out the window.
Might not be big deal for PvE content. But for open world PvP in 2/3 of the game it is a real issue.
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It's ok. This way it's worth learning, and at the same time you're still useful from the get-go. This game is not actually that huge.
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I don't understand. How you could says something is too big ? What is your reference ?
You don't have all the aptitude, and we don't know all the mechanic in play. More than that prealpha isn't launched yet.
In more, when they create games, dev put some high points on skill to speed test, so it's probably a tweaked skill what we see here.Don't remember where he says it but @Prometheus say something like it probably be difficult to fight one vs one because it will be a very long battle.
So, wait and see
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Hi guys, I've seen the discussion on Discord so let me give you a quick reply here.
First of all, some people were afraid that VIP would give an advantage in leveling up spells, but that's really not the case. The hard part of raising a spell to level 2 - 3 was always completing 4/6 - 6/6 tasks, because some could be located on different planets and/or be more complex than the others.
I'm using past tense here because the concept of leveling up spells to make them more powerful was indeed breaking horizontal progression in a way, and has therefore been removed in favor of acquiring alternate versions of the same spell, which can then be chosen during the resting phase as if they were different spells altogether
An alternate version might be more effective (higher damage and so on), but if so, that's always offset by one of more parameters getting worse (typically higher mana cost and cooldown).
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@prometheus thanks
that's exactly what I was hoping for saying on Discord that we need your reply asap 
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@prometheus I think it's a mistake, I think this way it won't be interesting to keep looking for knowledge and therefor making the all game boring.
In a different subject can you guys please notice us a week before pre Alfa ? So we get prepared ?
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@prometheus
Hmm. We'll see how it plays out, but I didn't mind at all the idea of leveling up spells.After all, if the level 2/3 alternate isn't an overall improvement in -some- way, why take the time to explore and unlock it?
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One must consider that most people voting here are in fact the players with packages that will be playing with VIP, and voting for power gap would in fact give them advantage.
Players who prefer equal level battlefield are practically non existent here and most people here are voting for advantage of veteran players. Because it will be them who are these veteran players playing from start with VIPs.
Only few players that I've seen here actually prefer a challenge in PvP and new players actually being competitive with them.
So hopefully game gets designed with competitiveness of new players in mind, so there will actually be a point for someone new join in future after game release, so community can grow.
Because if new player comes and gets owned by much more powerful veterans, he will not say "ok I will grind for a year and get this eventually"... he will go play something else instead.
So I am happy to hear that power gap might not end up large.
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The incentive to get level 2 or 3 of a skill is that those versions of the skill may fit your build better. If for example you're running a burst damage build, you might want the level 3 versions of some skills that have higher damage but longer cooldowns.
This change is more exciting to me since now I have another way to fine tune my build, and it kinda turns the 400 skills into 1200.
@gothix said in Power gap between r1 and r3 spells is too big (POLL):
Because if new player comes and gets owned by much more powerful veterans, he will not say "ok I will grind for a year and get this eventually"... he will go play something else instead.
I think this is something that would look bad on the surface and hurt the game but not have been that big of a deal in practice. Prometheus once mentioned that a hardcore player would take months to max all skills. If you take that to mean 6 months, then hardcore players are maxing skills at a rate just over 2 per day. That means it would have only taken 4 days to complete a skill build which is still pretty fast compared to any other MMO.
The new direction is a much better way to do things though.
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@prometheus said in Power gap between r1 and r3 spells is too big (POLL):
I'm using past tense here because the concept of leveling up spells to make them more powerful was indeed breaking horizontal progression in a way, and has therefore been removed in favor of acquiring alternate versions of the same spell, which can then be chosen during the resting phase as if they were different spells altogether
An alternate version might be more effective (higher damage and so on), but if so, that's always offset by one of more parameters getting worse (typically higher mana cost and cooldown).An alternate version of that spell is indeed waaaaaaaaaaay better then a big DPS increase. Thx for the update!
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@gofrit PvPing online since the late '90. More then double DPS between players is unfair match. No matter how the gameplay is and how long fights will take.
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@target then i will just use a build that do not need to get the (non)upgraded skill, why would i risk going to demon planet with no benefit?
i think this way the game lost all its achievement quality! i think the way it was before was balanced between horizontal progression and sense of achievement.
tell you the truth, this way turn me down hard, and im very disappointed, i fell the last few @Prometheus changes, with several servers and this, come to take care in the very (very!) small community of full hardcore PVP, and that it lost all the balanced that was before, that many think it had.
it feel like AO all over...
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I love how many people forget that the numbers are still in the pre-alpha stage. That these wont be the final numbers during launch.
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@gothix i have VIP and i did not voted, because some reasons.
For first, i am not able to pick a point, since i don‘t know how much the skillsystem will affect in real the gameplay. As we all don‘t know and i am sure the posted values in the screenshot will not be the values that we have at the end.
Second, because i am a very bad PVPer, even i try it, but i will be the first who will not like a overpowered Rul0r who spit and laugh at me when i bite the dust.
Third, not every VIP will have a real advantage out of the possibilities, since i know for sure, that we have people in the community who don‘t mind the advantage of a VIP nor will use it to its most effective way. Some will maybe just use the advantage of Carpenter NPC.
Fourth, we discuss something that we don‘t even know how it really will be ingame. But i think you are true if you want another form of spell in its higher level than just increased DPS. But even with this, there will be so many skills that you can use, just a single DPS skill is nothing worth against a player who chose wisely counterspells.
And last, in evey game the veteran who „mastered“ the knowledge about a game will be better than the newbie who first has to learn, how to handle the mechanics.
I don‘t think the newbie will say „oh there are still so many veterans, there is no point to start that game“, because he/she will know, if he starts later, there will be people who simple know more about the game and how it works. Someone who really like the game concept will have way more advantage in the first days than a veteran ever had, becuase there will be much more informations/guides be out there that will make the newbie life way easier than our first Fractured steps will be.
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@grofire my sence of achievement will come from winning fair fights. Not because I win due to double DPS.
My achievement will come from winning Town Conquest, sieging. Succesfull raids etc. And my achievement will be bigger if my oponents where all just as strong as me.
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@benseine as i said a very (very!) small hardcore PVP community....
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@benseine i guess it will be a long way to balance PVP while Alpha and Beta... that will be our task to give DS response about it. But i think it is simply too early to state anything out of a simple screenshot with simple imagined values.
Yes, we see this values, but i think they are not even that what we get at the end.
And i agree i see it same, fair fights, good designed sieges and other interesting competitions is, what us all leaded to Fractured. Just hope DS will follow this path.
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@gothix Hmm I do your point in a palette of situations being beneficial. I edited my comment as I had no read any of the other comments are yours
seems like they are in fact putting in the effort to make different versions of said abilities Makes more sense and am happy with that conclusion!
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@grofire I hope to never see that UO and DF elitism again. Ppl that grinded so much they became so powerfull vs the other 99% they just couldn't be beat.
If majoraty of the population is more or less even in power, then it is an achievement to be part of the 1% that the other 99% can't beat.
