[Feedback] Party Knowledge sharing feels bad


  • Wiki Editor

    Feedback:

    Currently knowledge is rewarded to the best DPS on a creature. It feels awful for everyone else who gets no knowledge or 1%. I'm not sure if that's a bug or not, but it feels shitty.

    My suggestion is giving party's the option to chose how Knowledge is rewarded by a toggle in the party window.

    • DPS: reward based on dps on the monster.
    • Shared: rewarded to everyone locally regardless if they hit the monster or not.
    • Leech: gives all knowledge to the person with the least amount of knowledge on the current killed monster.

  • TF#5 - LEGATE

    I like the general idea. However I feel leech will just become abused to max out alts. My suggestion is to replace leech with first tag.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @maze said in [Feedback] Party Knowledge sharing feels bad:

    Currently knowledge is rewarded to the best DPS on a creature.

    It doesn't not only feels awful, it also is not fair, if just the one with most DPS gets the whole, and others get nothing.
    A Tank probably does almost no damage, but safes the whole group to get hitted, why he should get less or no KP?
    A Supporter cares for their fellows that they are stronger, survive or their target is weaker, but has maybe not much DPS, why he should not get KP?
    Even a DD who maybe helped to get adds down and could shoot to the Maincreature late, will not get any KP.
    That happened to me yesterday at Goblin Hills quite often. I cared for assassin adds per example to keep the group on life, but when i started to shoot to the Shaman it seemed too late to get a single point of KP. In this case it did not matter if the Shaman was still at 50% life or if it was at the last 10%. Just sometimes it did not count and i was way behind my fellows to unlock the knowledge of them.

    Every system is better than the "Whole or not at all" we have now.

    I would prefer a shared KP System. A DPS in a group can just make that good DPS, if the others do their Job too. So reward a Party in its whole, for everyone who was at the fight, would be fair.
    Yeah, it can get abused, but there is no system that is not possible to get abused.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    Yeah the 'system' is pretty bad right now, I agree completly. Should be so that every grp member involved in the fight (dealing dmg, getting dmg or healing party members) should get the full knowledge. I see no point for leeching knowledge at all, I'm against being able to afk farm in any sort.(maybe we need some sort of extra system for dungeons like Kralith said if your role is it to deal with adds etc) For getting knowledge outside of the party I wish we could get a mixed system like first tag OR most dmg or something like that because first tag alone has it's flaws aswell. So at the end i don't think we need a system where you can choose a option for your party if the general knowledge gain is implemented with a proper system.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    Yes.. it is always a bad idea to base EXP/KP off of damage I think. It completely eliminates all the other builds. Everyone in a party that is near the mob should get the same amount of KP for a kill, as they all contribute to the kill. I mean, healers do NO damage but they will KEEP everyone alive and healthy before, during, and after a fight. So why should they be penalized?

    Yes.. people will use it to power level and leech, but there is just no helping that, however, leechers can be kicked from the party.


  • Wiki Editor

    @Shivashanti said in [Feedback] Party Knowledge sharing feels bad:

    I see no point for leeching knowledge at all, I'm against being able to afk farm in any sort.

    Why I suggested such a feature is for a "Catch up", for the players in a party who came late. Many times I'd rather help a member catch up to me rather then all of us still getting the KP. Once you 100% a mob you still end up getting a split of the KP from what I've seen.
    I can't make an argument for people who might power level someone else, but I feel like that's a lesser evil then having a group of 5 people and 1 guy just not getting KP at all.

    @Shivashanti said in [Feedback] Party Knowledge sharing feels bad:

    For getting knowledge outside of the party I wish we could get a mixed system like first tag OR most dmg or something like that because first tag alone has it's flaws aswell.

    Once Legends come out, first tag will be dumb. in this case the party with the most DPS should win.
    if they choose to dimish their party KP to nothing by brining 40 people, that's on them.

    @Shivashanti said in [Feedback] Party Knowledge sharing feels bad:

    So at the end i don't think we need a system where you can choose a option for your party if the general knowledge gain is implemented with a proper system.

    I don't see any proper system. it's better to let players govern theirselfs in their own play styles. it makes people more happy. First Tag, and DPS are some people frav systems...I for one hate it.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @maze well for the first point, you can get kp for participation, no need for a afk leech option, but i see your point.

    For point 2: I see that aswell therefor maybe a mixed system of both, i really don't know how to fix this sort of problems in PvE environment without being able to PvP for the mobs (cough furry planet cough)

    For Point 3: Maybe some special options for dungeon areas or something like that, since this all is a very complex topic to cater every planet and grp constellation i can't think of a quick solution either


  • Wiki Editor

    I think any action(taking damage,doing damage, healing, buffing) should make eligible for fair share of xp.
    I don't see reason why not make leech option as well, it's up to party as they set it.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    Yup, let the party decide how the knowledge is given.

    But I also go with the knowledge should be shared all around the party regardless how the party selects it... as in the DPS option shouldn't be a option for a party to choose from; just shared equally or leech for catching someone up on some mob's knowledge to what the others in the party already have.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    I agree. Disadvatage for tank/support is not ideal.


  • TF#2 - MESSENGER

    I've specced and geared fully into tanking and I get very little to no knowledge at all, it'd be nice if it could include "Damage Taken" as a means of determining amounts of knowledge shared. Potentially adding in CC duration or Healing done too for those playing supportive builds. Right now, it just feels like unless your playing a mage within a group, you are left to get the scraps of the KP (Or a full creatures worth if you manage to sneak off and grab a creature without alerting the murderblender group)


  • TF#3 - ENVOY

    I agree with shared KP among all the party members within a certain range from the kill position (to avoid giving KP to people who stay too far from the rest of the party). Also I think that some KP (and %knowledge/discover KP) should be given also to others out of the party who participated in the killing too, for example some time ago I brought a mob to 10-20% but then a party finished him and I didn't get neight a single KP nor the race discover KP.


  • Content Creator

    I HAVE a solution. KP=%DPS


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    I agree with the OP. 🙂 As a solution, I really like the way Albion's system does it:

    • Kill is awarded to party with most total DPS (no kill sniping)
    • Fame is awarded to all victorious party members within a certain radius, regardless of DPS
    • Fights cancel if a party member flees too far away (and the enemy auto-heals to full)
    • Bosses have ways of targeting everyone in a party at one time or other, so no free ride
    • Loot drops can be set to individual (so everyone has a chance to loot something that no one else can take right away)

    One other quibble in Albion is that fights only cancel for a fleeing party member that has attacked the enemy, and is thus considered "engaged". A split party could start a fight with a member zones away, and that won't matter (but they won't get fame either).

    Another quibble is that the boss directly targets the party doing the most DPS (although AoE can still hit anyone nearby), and that's the only party that counts for retreating, so a second party can't run up, hit the boss, and run away to grief-cancel a boss battle.

    When I played Albion, that seemed to work really well.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    Knowledge point gains seem fairly standard across the board. Example: Kill a wolf, 60KP. That's consistent. So, since there is a base number, just divide it by amount of party members and split it evenly. 60KP max, total 3 party members, that's 20kp each, as long as each party member did over X% of mob max hp in damage. So tanks should be eligible, so should dps, and people that want to just afk it aren't rewarded. If you become ineligible for a KP reward, your portion is evenly split between the remaining, eligible party members.

    My thoughts on it. I run tank for my small group and I often get ousted of KP rewards. My wife got knowledge of Goblin Cutthroats, Trappers, and Warriors maxed long before I did.


  • TF#7 - AMBASSADOR

    @GorTavaro said in [Feedback] Party Knowledge sharing feels bad:

    I think any action(taking damage,doing damage, healing, buffing) should make eligible for fair share of xp.
    I don't see reason why not make leech option as well, it's up to party as they set it.

    'Leech' is the worst possible consideration. That would be a sure fire way to circumvent the work it should take to advance as a character. You'll just have a group of low level players following around some high level players and receiving experience for just standing nearby, but not close enough for be at risk.


  • Wiki Editor

    @d3Sync low level players? there are no levels in this game


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    I wouldn't consider grouping to be abusive. If someone is willing to spend their time leading another player around to get knowledge more power to them. That's the part that makes a mmo great...cooperation. By taking away the ability for everyone to earn the same amount of knowledge points you will in effect push players toward solo play. Aren't we wanting to help people enjoy group play?

    I remember the early days of SWG, we would fill our groups to max so everyone could run around and get the achievement nodes. It was saddening that when most got those they didn't group up for anything except major hunts.


  • Content Creator

    @Farlander said in [Feedback] Party Knowledge sharing feels bad:

    I wouldn't consider grouping to be abusive. If someone is willing to spend their time leading another player around to get knowledge more power to them. That's the part that makes a mmo great...cooperation. By taking away the ability for everyone to earn the same amount of knowledge points you will in effect push players toward solo play. Aren't we wanting to help people enjoy group play?

    I remember the early days of SWG, we would fill our groups to max so everyone could run around and get the achievement nodes. It was saddening that when most got those they didn't group up for anything except major hunts.

    Actually, we're supposed to be showing a game that encourages both Group and Solo play. Current testing phase is very Group-centric, but Solos are supposed to be not only viable, but completely supported and encouraged as well.

    Personally, I would take the base knowledge value of the creature, divide it by the number of players in the attacking group, and that's how most knowledge would be awarded. If a single member of a group is more than 50% below everyone else in knowledge of a particular creature, that character would get 1.25 shares, while anyone with 100% on a creature would only get 75% share (which would equate to nothing for them, but still take away from the total KP of the creature)

    This way, everyone on equal footing levels up equally within a group, but those lagging behind get a small bump, while those 'finished' with a particular mob take less away from the whole.



  • I would suggest that everyone should share the KP in the group that contributed.

    In another game I played the share was calculated by "agro":
    Healing and damage generated agro. Tanks had agro skills (and hopefully the most agro).
    Anyone that was in the group and had at least 1% agro got the equal share.

    If another group attacked the same mob it was getting more complicated e.g.:

    • Group 1 had 5 members and did 55% agro
    • Group 2 had 3 members and did 45% agro

    --> Group 1 got the loot + 55% of the EXP that was split --> 10% for each member + loot that could be split
    --> Group 2 got 45% of the EXP that was split --> 15% for each member

    So even small groups could get EXP, but the bigger groups normally got the loot.

    This system could be abused with "full tank groups" - therefor it wasn't perfect.
    But for mixed groups I liked it.


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