One of my favorite classes to build in games is a melee cleric. It started in Warhammer Online with the Warrior Priest. So I'm happy to see some of the heavier armors and weapons come in, as the class I want to build uses medium to heavy armor, and a 2 handed hammer. I'm pretty excited to see any new abilities to flesh out the magic support for the class too. Like some basic healing, magic protection, self and group buffs and any fire related spells. It's sort of like a paladin, but without the religious aspect, and instead of holy, more fire. So we'll see what the future holds. The next test will be my first, so I'm excited for that too!

I was going to post this as a response in the alpha discussion, but it grew a bit larger and more generalized than I anticipated. This seems more appropriate.

After a few days of playing and trying to consider the developers plans. I am also leaning into making solo play less restrictive. IIRC, the developers have said that they are designing their game to reduce the level gap between players. They have a few mechanics that appear to be running contrary to their stated goals.

Players are forced into cities in order to harvest materials. So I thought this wasn't a problem. But it actually destroys the solo harvester/crafting profession entirely. As you are forced into playing with other players. I feel that the length of time it takes one person to harvest and craft enough materials to be useful should be a severe enough restriction alone. If you are playing with a group, you are going to get things done far more quickly anyways. I do recognize that I don't know enough about the city mechanics to get into too much detail. But from limited experience trying to build my house, it might take me several days to finish building it. Hell, it might take a week, as there is only so much stone around and I've only finished half of my initial foundation. That's not even considering the work benches that I will need and things like gathering and refining. I don't mind it being time consuming and difficult. But it being impossible, not even being able to harvest. Well, that doesn't even make sense. Perhaps adding randomized harvesting nodes (Not just stone), in non-city areas would help solo crafters. Maybe adding MORE nodes in areas where it makes sense. Another idea is actually adding a location for said node. So outside of all of the random harvesting nodes in the world, the city node is actually a consolidated location nearby the city. IE, a mine, quarry, farm. It could include more nodes, in a much smaller area. That would make it clearly and visibly different from the 'free' nodes out in the world. And solo players could stick to their 'free nodes', that sometimes repawn as higher-tier nodes. The travelling crafter should be a viable option for solo players. I think a plan like this could potentially help both parties involved. Joining a free city and choosing not to play with them is an option that I recognize. However, I'd like to stop you there. I feel that the high tier cities with strong nodes will ultimately be cannibalized by strong guilds who will not allow their resources to be freely consumed by certain players.

The other mechanics that I'd like to mention is the new legends mechanic. I like having 'boss' or 'world' mobs out in the wild. I have to make that a point. However, I don't like the idea that developers are actively gating or locking character progression behind killing these mobs. The issue that is making this mechanic sloppy, is the knowledge system. Since killing creatures gives you knowledge points, and knowledge points are turned into talent points, this is where the problem lies. So again, it feels like that original goal of reducing the power gap between casual and hardcore players is being pushed further and further away. What this does, is it again forces solo players into groups, or guilds, in order to progress. In order for the knowledge system to stay consistent over the entire game, we have to make a concession here. Which is accepting that knowledge points will be earned by killing these mobs. We also understand that there may be some abilities that will be unlocked from these mobs as well. What I don't want to see are these mobs locking even more knowledge points behind gated content, with the tales mechanic. This hurts the solo player and it gates finishing your build behind higher level content. I get that some of this will have to be accepted, but I think the tales/lore, while regional, should be dropped by any mob in said region. Which would reduce the amount of knowledge points being locked behind high level content. The reward for group players is already strong. Which includes time to kill, resources from loot, knowledge points from kills, and unlocking abilities attached to the mob. Punishing solo players further should be avoided if possible. And I think this mechanic and the systems around it need to be further considered in the future.

I feel like, in the end, every casual solo player needs to be able to finish their character progression, build a home for themselves, and craft all items in the game. There is punishment alone that as a solo player, it will take a long time to get any of that done. It's punishment enough that the difficulty is quite high already for a solo player. Gating these players from even finishing their progression as a player is scary to me. Simply because the type of player this sort of game attracts is going to be quite disappointed that they can't even dream of competing. Even if it takes them much longer to get there, they should still be able to get there. And again, before I get hatred for this, I will likely be joining a guild and/or a city when this game releases to a state that won't be wiped in the future. But I do like to look out for the little guy, and the more little guys we can have in this game, the more the world is filled out and the more the cities are actually important. What I don't want for Fractured, is an empty world, with empty plots, and no economy. It's going to be a hard job, but developers must walk that tight rope in order to convince all types of players that this is the game for them. Easy to play, hard to master. Not hard to play, hard to master.

To reiterate, this isn't me complaining. It's me pointing out what I think 'could' be flaws in the system. This is an alpha, and I think this is the perfect place for this kind of feedback. If you agree fully, partially, or not at all, that's fine. But this isn't meant for you guys. It's meant for the developers. My hope is that they can continue to carry this balanced mindset throughout their entire game if possible.

@Xzait said in First Impressions on the new City System:

I reckon having the harbours detached from cities is a very smart move. I never used them last major test, because 3/4 of them were dead and the 1/4 that remained (for the first half of the test at least) were far too expensive, with the cities that controlled them maxing out the tax rate, except for maybe 1 city. Yes, the rates for harbours were reduced later... but having them detached from cities means that player greed won't have an effect on them, reguardless of where you go. It will be fair for everyone. I probably still won't use them, as I am not a gold gathering sort of player for the most part... but at least now, I will have the option to do so if I want, wherever I might want to go.

@d3Sync commented "Harbors being able to be used on day one makes little sense to me as a benefit, as no one will have the resources to move people around on day one."

you are definately wrong in assuming this. Some members in my guild had over 2k gold by the end of the first day of the last major test. It is more than enough to pay for a harbour fee. Just because you don't farm gold like it matters... doesn't mean other players won't. I am sure some players will farm some monsters after they leave the starting town and use a harbour if the town they will settle is far away from either starting town. They could spawn at west starting town and farm goblins for a bit, gathering some useful materials as they do, to take to their town and put in the safe when it is built.

I guess I'm just against using a bad mechanic, just because I can. I know that's just my opinion, but I never really liked fast travel all that much in games. The more fast travel you have, the less likely people will meet each other traveling in the wild. Which really hurts a great sandbox staple, emergent game play. And to be honest, it also ruins all the good hard work that the world designers put into the project. However, for the sake of getting people around the map in order to test, I could understand the change. But not as a permanent change. If a harbor fee is too expensive, too bad. That's how I look at it. If a city doesn't want to make any money from people using their harbor, then that is their loss.

I just hope that they recognize that they shouldn't commit to these changes, as the ghost towns had more to do with the game being in alpha, and less to do with it being hard to run a city. And again, if it was just for testing, then I'd agree, it's smart. I just wish I could get confirmation.

@Gibbx said in Spell Tomes/Books?:

@GamerSeuss Yes despite your long posts you still seem to be missing the point: Its a freaking cool idea. It opens up lots of game play/role play possibilities. It would be sweet if you could turn your obvious gaming experience to exploring how something like this could work in game, rather than list all the ways why it shouldn't.

I agree. I was hoping to have a more balanced discussion. It's theory crafting. I enjoy having these discussions, and rather than crapping on the idea, maybe offering suggestions as to how it could work. Maybe we come up with something completely different? That's the fun in doing something like this.

I'll settle for a dev update..

@Nekrage I've watched a few of your Youtube videos. Some good stuff there! Yeah, I really like more aggressive melee builds that have some utility. It's a great style of class for solo and group play alike. Everyone loves healers! I'm hoping this hits that UO itch that I've had since I left that game in the early 2000's.

@WaterMerchant said in Spell Tomes/Books?:

@d3Sync
First this would fall into the category of scope creep. Adding new professions and features when the game isn't even out yet isn't going to be "all positives". Second the con is what you literally just said, "Removing the exploration factor of finding the spell yourself". You might disagree but not everyone wants the need to explore to be removed because 1 high level character already explored everything and is now selling skill books.

I never once implied that if it were to be implemented, that it needed to be done now.

I do recognize that something like this would affect exploration to a degree. But again, this would only offer you the ability to unlock the base spell. All upgrade requirements and monster secrets would still need to be unlocked to make it the most viable. The impact would be minimal.

I do think that the option of buying a spell may be beneficial to a lot of people. Also keep in mind that buying a spell has a monetary cost attached to it. That player would actually have to have gathered enough gold to make a purchase. And in addition, the spell would have to be available to be purchased. Since cost is player defined, I think it's likely that it will be hard for any solo player or even small group of players to purchase all of the spells in the game. Imagine the gold cost in doing something like that. It's not feasible. Especially if we're looking at hundreds of spells down the road. This would be a supplement to game play. Not a primary means of game play.

If this were to be a 'post-launch' game mechanic, like a DLC, then most players would have gotten most of their abilities to begin with. Perhaps they just can't get to Tartaros or Arboreus in order to get that one spell.

Every mechanic has a 'con'. It's just determining how impactful that 'con' would be, and if the list of 'pros' would overshadow it. In this case, I think it could.

@Diablo said in New Armors and weapons, how do you think will effect the gameplay and your build?:

I just looked again at the Kickstarter Trailer video, i know it's far from the state of the game now, but i wondered if we will see a different kind of road blueprints. Now they are only square, it's a big part of constructing the city itself. Maybe it's too early for decorating stuff.

Maybe road upgrades. I had the same thought a few days ago about the square roads. I'd be curious if they could curve the road automatically if you created a 90 degree turn. That could help a little?

I agree with the OP here. I think the graphics of Fractured is okay. From the videos I've seen, it seems as though the graphics seem a bit washed out. In many different biomes, I feel like there is a lack of contrast that really makes some of the environments pop out at you. I feel like they could go back into some of these biome sets and re-evaluate some things. There can be very little variation between the colors of the ground textures, grass, plants, and trees. And it makes the area look bland. Also, I would love to see some environmental effects, such as weather. Rain, snow, dust, ash, wind, fog, etc. The lighting and shadows can use some work as well. But, from what I've seen, a potato can play the game pretty well. Which is ultimately the most important thing. A game can look amazing, but play terribly. And that's never a good thing. I've asked in discord about future plans for graphics and have been met with silence for the last few days. I think it's a reasonable question to ask to be quite honest, and should be met at face value without the implication being set that graphics aren't important.

Losing your gear on death is a great mechanic in the right system. Any time you play a game like this, you should prepare to die before you ever have a chance to. I was a UO veteran, and it was something that you learned very quickly. If you take everything you worked for out of town, you deserved to lose it. There don't seem to be many games anymore that truly punish players for making mistakes. I can certainly understand the frustration new players have to this genre when they first experience the harsh lash of death. It's a learning experience. It's best to take heed of the advice being offered. Complaining about it won't fix a thing.

Alright! Hello all! Here's my list of the things I have found personally. Some are more suggestions, than they are bugs. My testing focus has mostly been on a few phases of the game that I find really important. Tutorial, UI intuitiveness, early progression and residential gameplay.

• Arrow buttons for attributes on character creation has no audio
• Arrow buttons also hard to see, due to background color
• When holding down right mouse button while moving around the world, your
  character randomly stops moving even if you're still holding down mouse button
• Horses still have no audio for hoofsteps
• Atmospheric audio cuts in and out
• Still no circle of transparency functionality
• Same footstep audio for different surfaces
• Character stuck in weapon swing animation after killing mob
• NEED CHAT BUBBLES!
• Add tutorial mission to create campfire - most frequently asked about in chat
• Add tutorial mission purchase home plot and become resident
• Purple texture in place of some spell effects
• With cities removed, map in serious need of POI's
• Need more variety in the musical score
• Middle mouse button doesn't work as a keybind option
• Blueprints should tell you the items needed and the amount
• Mounting should not disable passive combat abilities (IE bash, heavy blow)
• Hand position while running is not in alignment with weapon (spear)
• You should be able to zoom into map based on where your mouse cursor is
• Opening map should auto center to your location
• Sometimes shockwave doesn't trigger when activated or doesn't deal damage
• Grass tile not conforming to ground at -2596 W -262 N
• Many players not able to figure out how to claim plots now. They don't see
  the house icon in bottom right. It needs to be more obvious
• Inventory and character tab should be combined as QoL feature
• No audio for chopping trees, or the logs falling to the ground
• Alternate controls, such as rotating blueprints or detaching wagons needs to
  be updated to match a keybind change
• Mining mineral nodes has no audio
• Starter towns should be labeled on the map, as well as their building icons
  on the minimap
• No durability loss on items used to chop wood and mine ore
• Grass not rendering on -09 W axis
• Lots of armor and weapon clipping
• There is no city chat
• QoL Doors to your house should auto-close after 10 seconds and add auto-close
  toggle in house settings for people who don't want to use it, door locks
• Add gated fence to blueprints
• Logs not lootable. Falling through terrain or standing up.
• Hard to click on workstations that are against a southern wall
• More structures need to be represented on map (IE bridges)
• No way for players to know what governor policies mean (IE Authoritarian)
• No way for players to know resident and citizen permissions in a town,
  which is especially useful when deciding where to settle
• No way for players to know what researches are availabe in towns
• Tanning tub is not filled with liquid, like it shows in it's blueprint
• Zombies still sound like squirrels when they die
• Water tiles around harbor are missing -5927 W -3250 N
• Sea Trolls cast their shock nova even after death (I think this was fixed?)
• Invisible barrier on the road at -5568 W -3211 N
• Horse riding animation needs some serious work, sometimes character
  rocks back and forth in awkward motion when in full gallop
• Dire Wolf death sound should sound less like popping the cork off a wine bottle
• Bridge is off-center with road at -1748 W -616 N
• Farenheit toggle for temperature above minimap
• Players allowed to make plot farms, if it's not a bug, it should be. IE 20 smelteries

@Hilgard said in Bounty Hunting & Jails - Official Feedback Thread:

@d3Sync said in Bounty Hunting & Jails - Official Feedback Thread:

@Nekrage Can you have a civil discussion without insulting people?

Prometheus asked for a lack of toxicity. You are disrespecting him.

We can have a discussion without the childish behavior.

I thought it was weird that you were singling Nekrage out when there was someone else doing the exact same thing so I did some snooping.

Turns out you were attacking him on the Discord server yesterday lol. Seems like you have a horse in this race.

I think we can have a discussion without your childish behavior. Sound like a good plan?

I don't think Nekrage calling people morons, and worse in this thread after Prometheus asked people to be civil is an unwarranted criticism.

I'm not here for the toxicity. My discord interaction with him had nothing to do with my response here.

The fact that you are defending that sort of behavior out of him leads me to believe you have a horse in this race.

@Nekrage Can you have a civil discussion without insulting people?

Prometheus asked for a lack of toxicity. You are disrespecting him.

We can have a discussion without the childish behavior.

@Ostaff said in Change to Syndesia, the true mix of PvE and PvP?:

@d3Sync

As long as there is PvP allowed, there is nothing to keep people from going that route... and they shouldn't be forced to stay away from it. Which is why I came up with the levels of looting options which will allow a person to say just how far they want to go with PvP and sticks with the "risk/rewards". The greater the risk, the chance of the greater reward, but if you don't go that risk you can never get that full reward.

Yes.. it doesn't stop someone from being killed. But mobs can kill a player just as easily. Allowing loot settings allows a non-combatant to keep their loot that they farmed hours for. Also..loot options should be just like alignment settings... either a one time deal or only changeable at shrines/jails.

The other possible option for "crime" is to give greater penalties to people who pk people with a whole lot less KP than they have and lesser when the kp's are closer to even. The problem with this is... you don't know how much KP the other person has and its like playing russian roullett.

Personally, I think the bail time/amount plus loot options would be a good fit. However, the time and bond cost needs to be balanced a lot better than it is, and if the loot option is implemented, then the bail time/bond would drastically decrease in cost.

I have a long post in the Jail thread.

It involves altering the karma and crime systems.

But ultimately, I got your partial loot solved in a way that makes logical sense and isn't a game-y system.

Someone knocks you out. They become a temporary criminal. They can only loot your inventory.
Someone kills you. They become a temporary criminal, but gain a murder count. Now they can loot your equipped items.

Enough of those murders in a short span of time. You lose access to almost everything.

Thus making murder an end-game mechanic on Syndesia. And a risky one at that. But POSSIBLE.

There are some good points in this thread.

I think most of us agree that the current jail system is not working.

The sentencing for jail time is bad, especially for new evil players. If you keep the jail, those punishments need to scale with the crime. Both time and gold.

I really do hesitate when confronted with the idea of removing the jail completely. I feel that it's really a difficult problem to solve, given the situation we find ourselves in.

I personally believe that the current system is broken. And we are debating over systems that don't even exist, but are required to exist to get a clear picture of the problem. So a lot of us are left in the dark.

I have a serious dislike for the good/evil alignment system being toggled. This is a personal opinion. I agree with Nekrage about criminals being able to gain positive karma to reduce sentencing time and bail cost. But I also believe that all players should be able to gain and/or lose karma based on their own personal actions over time.

Thinking out loud here.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how this would work. And I'm also trying to see it from both sides. The purpose of this test is to try and find flaws in the crime system and the siege system. Will we even get to the siege system?

Do I listen to the PvP'er crowd, saying it's too harsh?
Do I listen to the PvE'er crowd, saying it's not enough?

Does that mean the punishment is just right? Probably not.

I don't believe that it's a valid point to suggest large swaths of the player base will quit the game due to being jailed. Let's assume that the developers will properly adjust the punishment to fit the crime. They also have to make it absolutely clear that if they die as an evil player, there will be harsh punishments. And this needs to be done long before the player gets to that point. See my dislike for the toggled good/evil system.

The Sheriff system that Nekrage suggests is a miss for me, to be honest. Evil groups will just adjust. They will flow through an area, and then leave. The Sheriffs will show up and no one will be there. So a dynamic system, like Legends, won't really do much. It's a waste of development time. Cool gimmick? Sure. A solution to our problem? Not in my opinion.

I'd do something like.. First, separate the criminal system and karma system. I think they fundamentally oppose each other as one system.

You'd still have a karma system from -10,000 to +10,000, or whatever arbitrary amount you'd like it to be. But it has nothing to do with what color represents your status in the game world. It may affect the deity system though, I fully expect.

Beastmen start at +10,000
At -1 karma, can toggle Abomination
If so, loses access to Arboreus permanently

Demons start at -10,000
At +1 karma, can toggle Angel
If so, loses access to Tartaros permenently

Humans start at 0
At -10,000 karma, can toggle Lich
Loses access to Arboreus

We all know Liches are evil. Let's not play games.
But Liches can, through the power of magic, REVERT!
Yay! Or let's say, extend their life and regain human appearance to please the RP crowd.

Can't lower karma on Arboreus
Can raise/lower karma on Syndesia
Can't raise karma on Tartaros, unless you are positively aligned.

All non-criminals and non-murderers are BLUE

Implement a criminal status, ala Ultima Online.
Add a list of petty crimes. If you commit these crimes, you'll be a 'criminal' (GREY) for a short period of time. For instance, stealing a cart, looting a player corpse, or attacking someone. It does not apply to Arboreus or Tartaros. There would be no repercussion for killing a criminal. Safe zones no longer apply to you when you have the criminal status.

Add a murder system, ala Ultima Online. Allow for murderers to reduce their murder count by playing the game. And possibly even allowing them to lower their count by giving gifts to gods, such as gold. If you are a murderer, you can be attacked anywhere. Safe zones no longer apply to you in Syndesia. Not a city. Not your plot. If you want to play as a true RED, then you need to respect the decision that you made to kill other players, repeatedly.

For reference, Ultima Online had a system where if you kill a player, you become a criminal. Your murder count is now 1. You can work that off over a certain amount of time, say 8 hours in-game. If you kill again before the time was up, your murder count is now 2, and your in-game time to work it off is now higher. Say 12 hours. If you reach 5, you become RED.

Edit - Forgot to mention that once you work off your murder counts, you become GREY for a short period of time, before returning to BLUE (innocent). Not super relevant, but figured I'd mention it anyways.

Also Edit - Knocking out a player would be a crime. You can loot their INVENTORY and be a criminal. If you want their equipped gear, you must kill them and you'll be awarded a murder count for doing so. Here is the partial loot system that a lot of you are advocating for.

The jail system now kicks in. Sheriffs get to have fun. I like the idea being pushed around to limit them. Sounds fine. Punishments scale appropriately to the crimes. You might be able to keep them on the light side, considering the nature of being a true murderer. You are never safe.

A few adjustments may need to be made to city governance.

Sieges should be done by waging war on another city, or another guild. It shouldn't involve 'good' or 'evil'. Karma loss/gain should be suspended in a siege or raid.

We've fixed new players accidentally serving huge penalties by pushing the murderer game play to end-game. We've eliminated 'evil' player zergs to a degree. Though they will always exist. We've allowed for truly neutral, opportunistic combat situations with the criminal system, by making petty crimes common, but with light penalties. We've allowed all players to raise and lower their karma based on their actions, within their race restrictions. The evil/neutral/good world structure remains intact. This will not affect the player economy in a serious way. At least I don't think so.

The PvP crowd will HATE it. But if they want to be a true badass, then they either need to deal with it, or go to Tartaros and allow the design of the developers to work properly.

What Syndesia needs, is a full Tartaros. We need the demons to make their weekly incursions impactful. Which means we need the majority of you fighting each other, rather than fighting us.

One of the greatest games I've played from a PvP standpoint was Dark Age of Camelot. The factions did not interact with each other often. Not only that, but the races are unique, so fighting completely unique and alien players created a sense of fear and awe. The player staring back at you from across the battlefield did not look like you. They didn't play like you. That created a sense of rivalry.

I think the reality is, that whatever the solution is, it has to include players of all rulesets. All playing within their own environments. Occasionally mixing.

I also am entirely aware that the system I propose is highly unlikely, as it requires a pretty lengthy rework. So keep that in mind when responding.

Also, I purposely didn't go into any of those ideas in depth. Nor did I really think about them in depth. They may not work either. I have no idea.

Partial loot is certainly an option for looting.

I don't think that will prevent a PvP'er from killing you though. I don't think it will prevent someone from going evil. I don't think it will prevent a guild from going evil. I'm not saying there will be zero effect. I feel it's such an artificial system to employ. You have to choose this, or that, or two of the three. It's complex and convoluted in my opinion. Could it help? Maybe it could. But not alone.

But it's certainly an ugly way to do it in my opinion.

I don't think the issue is the full loot system. It's the criminal system. I think we can find a better solution.

Nah. My vacation time is worth a lot more than a day of playing a game. It will be there the next day. Next week. Next month. And so on.

I didn't have any reasoning behind where I spawned, as I didn't know where any POI's were on the map. And really, you can travel and set yourself up in any city once you get your feet under you. So it really doesn't matter.

Though I understand why people feel like being in the southern part of the map is better. If you know exactly where you want to settle, starting closer by is the obvious choice. I still don't know where I'm going to spawn in the next one. I'm not part of a guild. Don't know any of the city governors.

Kinda weird that this didn't get more discussion. I don't understand Logain's response. The question wasn't whether or not the inclusion of drinks should be priority. I don't understand some of the people in these forums who seem to simply want to shut down conversation or hijack the conversation, and make it about something else. Just discuss the topic, or don't respond.

I do think that both food and drinks should be in the game. For nothing more than it being realistic. You don't even need to change much. Both food and drink can increase satiety. However, food could give you physical bonuses, such as HP regen, bonuses to physical attributes like STR, DEX, CON, and physical resistances that are limited buffs. Drinks could give mental bonuses, such as mana regen, bonuses to mental attributes like INT, PER and CHA, and mental resistances that are also limited buffs. Half hour. Hour long buffs. Adding drinks really wouldn't require a huge amount of development and could be done alongside large pillar systems that haven't yet been implemented.

There's nothing wrong with this discussion. I have wondered why drinks were shafted, for no real reason. Doesn't seem to really have a logical reason.

@Ultimate said in Do we have any idea of sever localisations?:

But I mean.. even if there will be many servers in the end.. we can server hop at will right?

If we end up with multiple regional servers, I doubt that you will be able to move your character around at will. I don't want to get into too much speculation, but even if they did allow you to move your character, it would likely be something you have to pay for.. And you probably wouldn't be able to take any of your belongings.