@boogis said in Idea. Holy trinity:

@Stacy555 63 yo kid who started playing rpgs from 2005. tank/heal/dd is newer version of what im saying.

Actually, Tank, Healer, Damage Dealer were terms used in Ultima Online, and EverQuest, arguably the first MMORPGs out there, and they had already started in use in TTRPGs before it went digital...This coming from a TTRPGer since 1978.

Your Classic Trinity was actually Magic-User, Fighting Man, and Thief (OD&D, 1974 white/beige booklet edition)

It has evolved over the years, but it got boiled down to Tank (Damage Sponge), Damage Dealer, and Support (Healer/Enchanter, Buffer, Skill-jockey)

It actually changed to a 4 part system really, not in direct link to the Rock-Paper-Scissors analogy, in fact, as they quickly differentiated between the Healer-Support person and the Skill-Jockey Support person. That goes to when they added in the Cleric to D&D. The 4 ultimate CORE classes thus were Fighter, Cleric, Wizard/Mage/Magic-User, and Thief/Rogue and all other classes were built around the roles those played. It finally really got highlighted in an actual D&D edition in 4th edition, and players were up in arms because they believed that D&D was devolving into an MMO clone, forgetting that MMOs came from D&D in the first place, and all they were using were different terms than SOME might have been used to. In 4th Edition, it was the Defender (Tank), Striker (DPS), Controller (Blaster, Mage, Area Attacker), and Leader (Healer, Support, Strategist)

So no matter how old someone is in the game, don't go throwing your age around and degrading others for being newer than you. Stacy555 had a valid argument, and your dismissal was not exactly good form.

As to the Rock-Paper-Scissors mechanical theme, no thank you, I like every character to try to be dynamic, by how a person plays that character, and if someone wants to start an Arcanist, and then unlock a bunch of Melee skills to switch-hit at times, good on them! That's why this game is built around the Pre-Set system for Skills/Spells and Talents

Dropping Citizenship should be an official act requiring you to go to the town hall of the City your dropping. This makes it official and serves notice that you are no longer bound to a city. Just being able to toggle it on or off in the wild makes no sense. It also doesn't fit with the story aspect of the game.

Actually, Prometheus and Co are going over and above the call of duty to keep us informed of things. They are of course forced to back-burner some things when immediate bugs must be addressed, like for instance the Server crash on the 2nd day of the Alpha.

I would much rather have them working hard on the game and the various elements, than taking time out to give us ETAs when they are unsure after dealing with bugs, how the cascading affect of the patching will affect the new expected features.

Feel good, in most games, any new features like that would be held until the next alpha altogether, but the gang is trying to hot patch some stuff in that they have primed to launch, and so far, they look like they are going to go full steam ahead forward with those plans.

As @spoletta said, there are actually far more small groups/solo players than Guild players who play MMOs so the major faulty reasoning that the "Multiplayer" in the name means the games are set for big groups is actually detrimental from most Developers' standpoint.

Developers shouldn't specifically cater to either group to the exclusion of the other, however, they need to make a balanced approach that allows both groups to benefit from their particular playstyle, as well as paying certain disadvantages for said playstyle.

My own suggestion for the City Resources to balance things out is as follows:

1. A City's Coffers gets a share of the 2000 gold used to buy Resident parcels in an area....not saying they get the whole nut, but some of it needs to go their way, 10-20% so 200-400 would be good.
2. All Resource Processing facilities in town are open to use by anyone, however, all of these resource processing centers include a small fee for usage. The fee would vary from processing plant to processing plant, but again, this makes it so if your enemies want to use your resource development systems, they have to pay into your upkeep to do so.
3. As with part 2, Make visitors pay for use of the Inn, the Stables, maybe even pay a small tithe to enter the city beyond a certain tech point. Once there's a wall and guards, many medieval cities charged a Tax or Tithe at the gate when you entered a city unless you could prove you were on Royal Business.
4. Citizens of a city, those with their actual citizenship set to that city and who are in open support of the city, internal or external plot not withstanding, either waive the fee at the resource places, or get the fee reduced. (ie: In-Town Citizens get the use for free, Resident Citizens living out of the town walls pay 1/2 the normal fee to use the processing centers)

These are only minor changes that can be made to the city, specifically affecting resource conversion, but these would allow for both the Solo/Small group players to thrive in the game, AND the Big Guild/City-centric groups to profit from these hangers on to help defer their own upkeep costs. Want to use a city's resources, you should help the city pay to maintain them afterall.

EDIT: and obviously, you allow the Governor to set the pricing on resources, tithes, taxes, etc... but have an upper cap they can't set it above to make sure they aren't trying to make their city totally exclusive by overcharging and then just giving use to their Citizens for Free

I've been playing MMOs for years. I played Ultima Online, Beta-Tested EverQuest, and I'm back to playing Old School RuneScape now, just to name a few.

You play MMOs to have a huge open, ever changing world. Some of us, myself included, prefer to 99% of the time, tackle that world and its various tasks solo. I want to see other players playing, interact with them, trade, and yes, even group on occasion, but I feel the best MMOs out there make sure that the entire content of the game can be enjoyed whether you enjoy playing as a group or a solo player. This is one reason I was not a huge fan of WoW. Besides being quest driven, it also had several specific quests/raids that necessitated a minimum number of players go in to take on the baddy. This could be ignored, if taking on said Baddy wasn't part of an almost mandatory quest chain to get past a certain point in your character development, but in WoW, that wasn't the case.

Now, EverQuest did it pretty good when they brought in the Dungeon Instances, were you could do a short term looking for group raid of a specific dungeon, but the dungeons themselves were extras, and not required in order to progress your character along.

A great MMO needs to remember there are both Solo'ists and Raiders out there, and cater to them both. If someone just wants to sit and craft all day long, they should be able to do just that. If they want to take on the monsters of the world, on their own schedule, without having to group to do it, that is also viable.

@Roccandil said in Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST IDEA EVER!!!:

Exactly: that's a design principle, not an artifact of Alpha, and I disagree with their approach.

The developers have been clear from the very beginning about their design philosophies. Although they are calling for player feedback on ideas on how to improve the game, they have also said they will NOT BE compromising their design principals to do so. They want to make a game unlike other games, and one of the ways that they will do that, and one of the things they need to be sure of, given how they brought their backers into the fold, is by NEVER compromising their design principles.

Suggest new avenues of exploration, new ways to do things, new approaches to gameplay, BUT in this case, design principles stated from the very beginning are effectively sacred cows, AND THEY SHOULD BE! These are the things that drew most of the backers to this game in the first place. These are the things most of the backers actually fear that the developers will cave to and compromise their vision on.

I'm all for improving this game, I love the whole idea behind it, but I want the end result to still be the game I wanted to back in the first place. Its great that you have ideas that are different than others, but realize where there is room for compromise, and where your changing the game intrinsicly.

@grofire said in shitty game:

if that true why no developer say it?

Well, for one, as a serious Developer, i wouldn't even bother checking a forum that was entitled "Shitty Game" when there are so many threads to keep track of as there is. Shitty Game just pretty much says "I'm not even going to give this game a chance to grow, I'm not offering any constructive criticism, so go ahead and ignore me for more engaging patrons"

@David353 said in Pet Companions:

This creature is cosmetic only and doesn't engage in battle."

As the words state, Pets are purely cosmetic. One of the founding principles of Fractured is you cannot 'Pay to Win' and that means perks do not get a mechanical advantage of any kind, at least those perks you can get from higher backing levels and such.

Sorry about the cold water bath, but that's the name of the game here

@Ostaff Yes, because most of those games encouraged the Large Group mentality, even if the player base didn't always want it. They ended up joining Guilds out of necessity, and that's really not the reason I would want to join a guild in the first place. Most Solo-centric players join a game, and explore as much of the solo content as they can solo, while feeling out some of the people around them so that they can make short term alliances that may eventually lead to joining a more open minded guild. I mean, we all know that End Game content, certain bosses for instance, usually require more than just one person to take them down. Alliances of the moment, repeated a few times, sometimes leads to guild formation and all is good then, but the Solo player shouldn't feel like the majority of the game is forcing them in that direction, because the fact of the matter is, there are a whole bunch of people out there who play these games mostly to kill time by themselves or in small groups of circumstance...others who play to join up with friends and family for a few hours on a rotating basis, maybe Bob plays with his sister Jenny on Mondays, has a couple co-workers who might ask him to hit a Raid on the weekend, and the rest of the week, he mostly works on his own things, mainly being Skilling and Exploring. These are the players the game wants to target and encourage to keep coming back. It's just like Micro-Transactions vs Pay to play, sure, pay to play gets a bigger chunk of money guaranteed each month, and a big group comes together and all puts a bigger chunk of money/time/etc... in the game compared to the little groups and solos, however, just like how hitting players with a free game, but micro-transactions to get little things like boosts and stuff, often end up making the money made from the game skyrocket, so having a ton of Solo/Small group players coming back day in and day out will profit the game overall more than the big groups., or at least has the potential to do so...when you figure you might have 10 guilds playing, each with say an average of 100 players, that's 1000 players invested in the game...but for each of those sets of 10 guilds, you may have 5,000+ solo/small group players...sure, they may not even ever do the boss raids and end game content, but the Devs care about players logged in more than if they are consuming every inch of content, AND those solo'ists often will find all kinds of little things in the lower level parts of the game that the big boys ignore in their rapid rise to power.

We tried online play, but my players just didn't feel motivated to show up on the internet, so we stopped after the first month or so. I'm immunocompromized, so I haven't gone back out to play as of yet, although I'm fully vaccinated. Our FLGS started games back up at the beginning of June, but I've yet to go. I could really use the stress relief, personally.

I don't know about you, but it's far to quiet here, so I thought I'd ask, what MMORPGs are people playing while waiting for another Alpha to come along?

Me, I'm playing both Old School RuneScape, and EverQuest (they have a couple new Progressive Servers, I'm on Mischief, so I get to play like back when I first started back in 1998-99 when I was a Beta Tester and then one of the first players)

One of the points of this game is to not be too grindy.

This is why each monster has a finite cap on Knowledge Points, once you reach 100%, the only reason to kill one is for its unique reagents/materials if any, or to survive to get through their zones.

There is also a cap on Talents, at 60 points right now, however, there is nothing saying they cannot later add more talents in a specialized tree available to those who reached the initial 60 cap. Expanding the game at late game can add monster mobs, like on the asteroids, new reagents to combine to make new types of enchantments. There is so much they can do in the end game that doesn't have to involve grinding the same old mobs or going to PvP.

Add to that you have City management and infrastructure, all kinds of crafting they can add and refine, the game can grow horizontally for quite a bit without having to become redundant and boring. Add new things to do, new achievements to accomplish, and see where it goes from there.

Also remember that Talent Point progression is accelerated during an Alpha test because you simply don't have as much time to do it as you will after release. I expect the Talent Tree and Skills to fill up a good deal slower once the game reaches its final form already, I'm sure the Devs are aware of this.

Also remember, Fractured doesn't want to encourage Farming/Grinding for loot, which is what would happen if you put in lootable cosmetics. That is also one of their clearly stated goals.

How they plan to keep interest up in the higher end/late game I'm not sure, but loot drops of cosmetics is definitely not the direction I see them going.

Wipes are after every test phase, Alpha and Beta, devs assured us of that, and it is standard at least in Alpha.

Exact date won't be known until it actually launches, but the devs should be giving us a "End of _______" or "in ________" message soon that will tell us around when to expect it. Generally there will end up being a delay enough that it will most likely be the end of the month listed or the beginning of the next even if they plan otherwise. (not their fault, they want us to test the best produce we can and unforeseen delays happen right before a new Alpha all the time)

Anyway, expect a roadmap soon, as that's the next thing they promised us, and the new anticipated window of when the next Alpha will start should be included in the Roadmap.

@SilentMoebius Last I heard, they were anticipating a 2023 release, but possibly late 2022, new Roadmap is supposed to be in the works.

Actually, the devs have been quite open about this goal, and a majority of those who joined/backed the game I think did so because they wanted to support this idea and ideal.

What didn't work in Destiny 2 might work here because the focus is completely different. They do not want to do ANY pay-to-win content, so all kinds of cosmetics and skins and such will be what you buy outside the game. If it keeps the pay-to-win completely away from the game, most will be more than satisfied with the results.

@FLeaLoD Cosmetic rares for house decor are intended to be bought in the Fractured store using foundation points or real-world money as an alternative to Pay-to-win systems. Everything for sale that way is cosmetic, so they are reserving those kind of bits and bobs for that store alone.

The only real trading they are wanting is Player based. I do believe the bits and bobs you buy in the Fractured store will be account bound so they won't even be secondary marketable.

@Logain Except they pretty much said they weren't going to do any kind of salable loot. They did say you could buy/sell the Lost Tales, but other than that, they want the market to be about reagents, crafting materials, and finished crafted goods, and they didn't intend on putting in any other type of treasure that would take away from the player run economy.