@boogis said in Idea. Holy trinity:

@Stacy555 63 yo kid who started playing rpgs from 2005. tank/heal/dd is newer version of what im saying.

Actually, Tank, Healer, Damage Dealer were terms used in Ultima Online, and EverQuest, arguably the first MMORPGs out there, and they had already started in use in TTRPGs before it went digital...This coming from a TTRPGer since 1978.

Your Classic Trinity was actually Magic-User, Fighting Man, and Thief (OD&D, 1974 white/beige booklet edition)

It has evolved over the years, but it got boiled down to Tank (Damage Sponge), Damage Dealer, and Support (Healer/Enchanter, Buffer, Skill-jockey)

It actually changed to a 4 part system really, not in direct link to the Rock-Paper-Scissors analogy, in fact, as they quickly differentiated between the Healer-Support person and the Skill-Jockey Support person. That goes to when they added in the Cleric to D&D. The 4 ultimate CORE classes thus were Fighter, Cleric, Wizard/Mage/Magic-User, and Thief/Rogue and all other classes were built around the roles those played. It finally really got highlighted in an actual D&D edition in 4th edition, and players were up in arms because they believed that D&D was devolving into an MMO clone, forgetting that MMOs came from D&D in the first place, and all they were using were different terms than SOME might have been used to. In 4th Edition, it was the Defender (Tank), Striker (DPS), Controller (Blaster, Mage, Area Attacker), and Leader (Healer, Support, Strategist)

So no matter how old someone is in the game, don't go throwing your age around and degrading others for being newer than you. Stacy555 had a valid argument, and your dismissal was not exactly good form.

As to the Rock-Paper-Scissors mechanical theme, no thank you, I like every character to try to be dynamic, by how a person plays that character, and if someone wants to start an Arcanist, and then unlock a bunch of Melee skills to switch-hit at times, good on them! That's why this game is built around the Pre-Set system for Skills/Spells and Talents

Actually, Prometheus and Co are going over and above the call of duty to keep us informed of things. They are of course forced to back-burner some things when immediate bugs must be addressed, like for instance the Server crash on the 2nd day of the Alpha.

I would much rather have them working hard on the game and the various elements, than taking time out to give us ETAs when they are unsure after dealing with bugs, how the cascading affect of the patching will affect the new expected features.

Feel good, in most games, any new features like that would be held until the next alpha altogether, but the gang is trying to hot patch some stuff in that they have primed to launch, and so far, they look like they are going to go full steam ahead forward with those plans.

As @spoletta said, there are actually far more small groups/solo players than Guild players who play MMOs so the major faulty reasoning that the "Multiplayer" in the name means the games are set for big groups is actually detrimental from most Developers' standpoint.

Developers shouldn't specifically cater to either group to the exclusion of the other, however, they need to make a balanced approach that allows both groups to benefit from their particular playstyle, as well as paying certain disadvantages for said playstyle.

My own suggestion for the City Resources to balance things out is as follows:

1. A City's Coffers gets a share of the 2000 gold used to buy Resident parcels in an area....not saying they get the whole nut, but some of it needs to go their way, 10-20% so 200-400 would be good.
2. All Resource Processing facilities in town are open to use by anyone, however, all of these resource processing centers include a small fee for usage. The fee would vary from processing plant to processing plant, but again, this makes it so if your enemies want to use your resource development systems, they have to pay into your upkeep to do so.
3. As with part 2, Make visitors pay for use of the Inn, the Stables, maybe even pay a small tithe to enter the city beyond a certain tech point. Once there's a wall and guards, many medieval cities charged a Tax or Tithe at the gate when you entered a city unless you could prove you were on Royal Business.
4. Citizens of a city, those with their actual citizenship set to that city and who are in open support of the city, internal or external plot not withstanding, either waive the fee at the resource places, or get the fee reduced. (ie: In-Town Citizens get the use for free, Resident Citizens living out of the town walls pay 1/2 the normal fee to use the processing centers)

These are only minor changes that can be made to the city, specifically affecting resource conversion, but these would allow for both the Solo/Small group players to thrive in the game, AND the Big Guild/City-centric groups to profit from these hangers on to help defer their own upkeep costs. Want to use a city's resources, you should help the city pay to maintain them afterall.

EDIT: and obviously, you allow the Governor to set the pricing on resources, tithes, taxes, etc... but have an upper cap they can't set it above to make sure they aren't trying to make their city totally exclusive by overcharging and then just giving use to their Citizens for Free

Dropping Citizenship should be an official act requiring you to go to the town hall of the City your dropping. This makes it official and serves notice that you are no longer bound to a city. Just being able to toggle it on or off in the wild makes no sense. It also doesn't fit with the story aspect of the game.

I've been playing MMOs for years. I played Ultima Online, Beta-Tested EverQuest, and I'm back to playing Old School RuneScape now, just to name a few.

You play MMOs to have a huge open, ever changing world. Some of us, myself included, prefer to 99% of the time, tackle that world and its various tasks solo. I want to see other players playing, interact with them, trade, and yes, even group on occasion, but I feel the best MMOs out there make sure that the entire content of the game can be enjoyed whether you enjoy playing as a group or a solo player. This is one reason I was not a huge fan of WoW. Besides being quest driven, it also had several specific quests/raids that necessitated a minimum number of players go in to take on the baddy. This could be ignored, if taking on said Baddy wasn't part of an almost mandatory quest chain to get past a certain point in your character development, but in WoW, that wasn't the case.

Now, EverQuest did it pretty good when they brought in the Dungeon Instances, were you could do a short term looking for group raid of a specific dungeon, but the dungeons themselves were extras, and not required in order to progress your character along.

A great MMO needs to remember there are both Solo'ists and Raiders out there, and cater to them both. If someone just wants to sit and craft all day long, they should be able to do just that. If they want to take on the monsters of the world, on their own schedule, without having to group to do it, that is also viable.

@Roccandil said in Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST IDEA EVER!!!:

Exactly: that's a design principle, not an artifact of Alpha, and I disagree with their approach.

The developers have been clear from the very beginning about their design philosophies. Although they are calling for player feedback on ideas on how to improve the game, they have also said they will NOT BE compromising their design principals to do so. They want to make a game unlike other games, and one of the ways that they will do that, and one of the things they need to be sure of, given how they brought their backers into the fold, is by NEVER compromising their design principles.

Suggest new avenues of exploration, new ways to do things, new approaches to gameplay, BUT in this case, design principles stated from the very beginning are effectively sacred cows, AND THEY SHOULD BE! These are the things that drew most of the backers to this game in the first place. These are the things most of the backers actually fear that the developers will cave to and compromise their vision on.

I'm all for improving this game, I love the whole idea behind it, but I want the end result to still be the game I wanted to back in the first place. Its great that you have ideas that are different than others, but realize where there is room for compromise, and where your changing the game intrinsicly.

@grofire said in shitty game:

if that true why no developer say it?

Well, for one, as a serious Developer, i wouldn't even bother checking a forum that was entitled "Shitty Game" when there are so many threads to keep track of as there is. Shitty Game just pretty much says "I'm not even going to give this game a chance to grow, I'm not offering any constructive criticism, so go ahead and ignore me for more engaging patrons"

@David353 said in Pet Companions:

This creature is cosmetic only and doesn't engage in battle."

As the words state, Pets are purely cosmetic. One of the founding principles of Fractured is you cannot 'Pay to Win' and that means perks do not get a mechanical advantage of any kind, at least those perks you can get from higher backing levels and such.

Sorry about the cold water bath, but that's the name of the game here

@Ostaff Yes, because most of those games encouraged the Large Group mentality, even if the player base didn't always want it. They ended up joining Guilds out of necessity, and that's really not the reason I would want to join a guild in the first place. Most Solo-centric players join a game, and explore as much of the solo content as they can solo, while feeling out some of the people around them so that they can make short term alliances that may eventually lead to joining a more open minded guild. I mean, we all know that End Game content, certain bosses for instance, usually require more than just one person to take them down. Alliances of the moment, repeated a few times, sometimes leads to guild formation and all is good then, but the Solo player shouldn't feel like the majority of the game is forcing them in that direction, because the fact of the matter is, there are a whole bunch of people out there who play these games mostly to kill time by themselves or in small groups of circumstance...others who play to join up with friends and family for a few hours on a rotating basis, maybe Bob plays with his sister Jenny on Mondays, has a couple co-workers who might ask him to hit a Raid on the weekend, and the rest of the week, he mostly works on his own things, mainly being Skilling and Exploring. These are the players the game wants to target and encourage to keep coming back. It's just like Micro-Transactions vs Pay to play, sure, pay to play gets a bigger chunk of money guaranteed each month, and a big group comes together and all puts a bigger chunk of money/time/etc... in the game compared to the little groups and solos, however, just like how hitting players with a free game, but micro-transactions to get little things like boosts and stuff, often end up making the money made from the game skyrocket, so having a ton of Solo/Small group players coming back day in and day out will profit the game overall more than the big groups., or at least has the potential to do so...when you figure you might have 10 guilds playing, each with say an average of 100 players, that's 1000 players invested in the game...but for each of those sets of 10 guilds, you may have 5,000+ solo/small group players...sure, they may not even ever do the boss raids and end game content, but the Devs care about players logged in more than if they are consuming every inch of content, AND those solo'ists often will find all kinds of little things in the lower level parts of the game that the big boys ignore in their rapid rise to power.

@spoletta this!

Makes are utility casting classes traditionally not bound by their weapons, but often enhanced by them.

Conversely, they are often restricted from casting at all when using non-caster weapons and higher defensive armors/shields.

Melee/Ranges characters on tge otherhand are equipment dependant classes. What they can and can't do is directly linked to which weapons and/or armor they are wearing. That goes to the core of the 3 play styles (melee/ranged/mage)

Sure, there are mixed classes, Arcane Archers combine magic and Ranged, but are locked out of casting more pure magic type spells by their armor/weapon choices. The Paladin, Cleric, and Ranger types are other examples, and like th e Arcane Archer, limited by their gear as to what magics they can use.

In this regard, I'd go back to an earlier suggestion @spoletta has made in the past and have more than one grade of Spell Channeling so as to allow for composite class builds, buttering the "true makes able to fully function as their build is intended, when in light armor, with a Staff and no shield.

Healing magic, for instance, as that used by divine casters such as Clerics and Paladins would either not require Spell Channeling at all for those meant for the composite types, but rather just have an armor limit, or a Divine Channeling prerequisite would be there as an option

@MidniteArrow also remember tge number of character slots at release is unknown. We just know a couple of the packs include extra slots, but at release, I'd be surprised if more than 3 are available (so one per planet us possible on base accounts)

@MidniteArrow you can have multiple characters but that doesn't mean dump stats should be a thing.

In GO, the reason for other characters should be more about being able to try all 3 potential playstyles, or having a character you leave in town to manage crops and other city functions, especially when your main is far enough away to make such chores problematic.

FO really is built around a design of one active character per player encouraged, tgat you change builds on based around current goals using the presets.

Fractured is purposely designed around finite housing plots, so instanced won't happen.

No upkeep for intown housing, but risk town seiges

@spoletta this!

Plus, in a gather intensive game like FO, don't undervalue Carry capacity.

Is the balance between abilities perfect, by no means, but it is intended to be that every character should not dump any Stat, and for the most part that's true

@greyfang the point in Fractured is they don't want a dump Stat view. By making melee and ranged skills mana dependant, which is mainly INT with a dash if CHA, melee and non-magical ranged cannot "dump" INT

Actually, that's one thing I love about FO. Your mana pool isn't so large you feel like you can wade through mobs nonstop, and it doesn't refill instantly.

The one caveat I'd put in is not full mana at fires, but maybe 3x regen at a fire.

There is nothing wrong with a game presenting a challenge. People often say games shouldn't feel like work, however, often games simulate work, and hobbies are often sets of tasks you want to do, and don't get paid for.

Games are active hobbies, and hoals and tasks bring out the enjoyment.

@elijustice I like some of this idea.

We've been waiting for the 3rd crop type for awhile, and I'm not saying replace it with this, however, each town level could require "trashed" equipment experience thresholds instead of or in addition to Prestige requirements.

The scaling/balancing would be key, but I'd add the caveat that any Citizen could load this trash gear into town hall (since there's no unloading, and a Gov/VG still has to apply for levelup.

@Marlowe except, the game is fairly dedicated to no NPC-dependent economies.

@awrysight they also want the game to not be Quest driven. The only "quests" really are meant to be the extension of the Tutorial system/island. I'm not saying finishing the journey system shouldn't have a small reward, like your choice of 1 orb after finishing 10 or more journey quests, but quests should be something that isn't required to play.

@Multiversal not to mention, you'll probably realize right after you finish making the character, before hitting Enter World that you never alotted some of your points, so it is easy to delete the character and start over, and only takes a couple minutes. f you find out later, you get 1 respect a week right now, during testing, so make such changes.