Talents. limit of 60 points.
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Even within a single strategy, it feels overwhelming. 70 or 80 would be nicer to create a complete strategy.
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Yeah, I feel much the same.
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Personally I like it being 60. Means you can choose to full max out one and invest a small amount in another tree, or spread it out over everything else. If they do anything with talents, they need to massively increase the amount of knowledge it takes to get a talent. You can cap it out way too easily atm.
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@Razuqze said in Talents. limit of 60 points.:
Personally I like it being 60. Means you can choose to full max out one and invest a small amount in another tree, or spread it out over everything else. If they do anything with talents, they need to massively increase the amount of knowledge it takes to get a talent. You can cap it out way too easily atm.
I mean while its in the alpha testing and there are only so many things that give you kp I understand. i don't think it's be very cool to up it a ton while the max kp is still so low.
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The less points, the more choice matters. Having too many points will bring us closer to homogeneous cookie cutter builds.
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@Hathos Personally, I don't have enough points to create a complete build. I share a magician or a warrior, I feel that I am very constrained. I do not want to have everything, but a little more than now. Having a full attack branch, a defense branch and something else, luck or resists seems to be a reasonable compromise.
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Honestly, I feel 60 points is too much already.
I mean, in my build I got +2str, +2con, +2per, +2dex, all the melee damage nodes, +50% critical damage & 5% critical chance, 2 full nodes of accuracy / evasion / mres, one node of armor + 20% armor bonus and 2 and half nodes of HP: clicky.
I'd either lower it to around 40 points to make the decision more impactful or create a bunch of less powerful nodes near the center and move the attribute ones towards the end of the trees.
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@Razvan If you play in a group and do a narrow specialization you are right. But for a solo, the situation looks different. You may have noticed that different enemies are gathered together, this makes the player take different damage and deal different damage. Playing solo is a challenge.
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@catraccoon why not memorise a few different strategies and swap them out at a campfire as intended?
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I do both group and solo play. Currently 60 feels like I have to much.
But I also don't like the current talent tree~ it feels to small and to little options.
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@Greenfire When playing solo, you need to resist a variety of damage from different enemies, since they attack together. It is also important to inflict damage on them. I can change the strategy at the fire, ranged or melee. But I still have to cut out a variety of damage and be able to inflict a variety of damage. Spiders walk along with skeletons and goblins. Elementals walk with living trees. Very different opponents. It is not always possible to separate them.
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I think, for right now, with the number of KP available, and the current conversion into Talents, 60 is just about the right number. Not so many that I feel I can unlock everything, but not so few that I feel I'm locked into only 1 specialty.
My characters can wear multiple Master hats with 60 points, and then, with a rest at a campfire, swap out and wear a different set of hats for awhile if need be.
When the game fully releases, I expect there to be a lot more KP available, so at that point, the Talent Tree will more than likely need to expand quite a bit, or the conversion of KP to Talents cost will have to inflate dramatically, or your looking at several players maxing out what can be done with a character in the first week or two of play.
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60 Point limit right now may feel like a lot but keep in mind a lot of the talent nodes are not implemented yet, also some of them are not really working this is the first test we have it. And I would say that 60 right now is OK.
If we get more nodes it may need to be increased.
KP cost is also OK at 1k.
After learning everything getting 60k KP spent on talents and learning few skills you are left with like 50k points if it cost more points then you will need a lot more content to get more KP.
So my opinion is that right now we have good balance.
I would like to see in future bigger tree with higher limit(maybe soft limit) with KP per talent point scaling.
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I'd either lower it to around 40 points to make the decision more impactful or create a bunch of less powerful nodes near the center and move the attribute ones towards the end of the trees.
Exactly. Before talents were implemented I expected you will only have enough points to max one Attribute and invest few points to some low tier passives. Also original design was that points costs will increase the higher in talent tree we will get, wasn´t it.
So either make talents more expensive the further from center I am, or make WAY more passives, so one can reach final passives in just one attribute and get other one to like 75%. Getting natural 20 in 4 attributes is silly.
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I like where it is now, at 60. I both solo and group and what I have works. Of course if I had another 5 or so points I would have everything I want, but then I would just be bored. This needs to remain a bit of a challenge and we have presets so you we change what we are using with just a quick nap.
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@StormBug Progress in the game is to get what you want. Now I cannot water what I want. I don't want to get everything. I want to get something that will give me the opportunity to create a harmonious build. Now my progress is limited to 60. I can't do anything to change that. I miss 5-10 points. This is about 10-15%, not much. I killed all the enemies and studied almost all 100%. I chose the skills I wanted to learn. Talents are the only thing that now I feel constrained.
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@catraccoon Progress in the game is NOT to get everything you want...if anyone ever gets everything they want, they end up with no challenge and nothing to strive for. The goal is to get as good as you CAN get, and learning to adapt to what you can't change. If your getting a build that is only 5 to 10 points shy of your image of 'perfect' then I think they are catching the exact right balance within the game. This is especially true, as with what Stormbug said about Presets and being able to swap out with a quick nap. Every PC can have 5 presets for Talents and 5 presets for Skills, together, that makes for a lot of possible permutations of your build, 25 potential build choices in fact, and that's not counting deleting out older presets and refining them.
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One of the main mechanics is gaining knowledge points. If I get points but they are useless to me, it makes one of the main mechanics useless. I don't want to open all the skills for points, since I don't need many of them. But then I accumulate knowledge points, but at the same time I am strictly limited in talents. Let each next talent cost more, I will have a goal and an opportunity to realize it. Now I see a hard ceiling. It is as if we give up the idea of ​​karma and make bad deeds impossible. Now, for a solo player, talents do not work as they should, I cannot compensate for weak points at the expense of them. If I play in a group then you are absolutely right, 60 points are enough for me. I can create a very focused 60 point build and fulfill my role. But if we are talking about solo, then the situation is changing. For a solo game, a wider build is needed, since one character will fill all the roles. I'm not talking about 100 points or the ability to get the whole tree. I'm talking about solo and how it feels right now. Due to the nature of the camera layout, I cannot choose to engage or not when I move down. Enemies can attack me from behind the edge of the screen. Therefore, my build is aimed at the survival of the character. Often during the battle, wandering enemies form a second wave and it is not always possible to safely retreat. The fire does not help in any way. Bonfire is an interesting but very limited mechanic, it does not solve the problems that I encountered.
I would like to be able to add some resistance to the current build, or to complete the branch with the attack, or at least get the last evasion. If I played in a group, I could take only defense or only attack and everything would be fine. But playing solo is different.
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I don't think we currently see the full scale that is going to use the knowledge points. Right now we only have the talent tree and the skills.
I'm also sitting on a bunch of points but my guess is those would be used in the future to get profession recipes or other skills not related to talents or combat.
I would actually like to see the knowledge points for plants to work like the animals and other mobs. Instead of getting the full 600 the first time I pick a dandelion it would give just a small portion for that plant and it would build to 100% like the mobs. That way the knowledge book could be expanded for the plants and it would slow the knowledge point gain.
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@catraccoon I play solo more than I play group, and My build for my Arcanist with 60 Talents is very well rounded. If you want multiple end of branch powers, you do have to decide which middle powers you don't max out, but you can do a pretty decent job of building a nice Solo character.
My Arcanist has:
Master Wizard
Power Caster
Unwearing
Unbreakable
and Army Veteranand +75 Elemental Resistance
+180 Armor
+320 Endurance
+80 Accuracy
+400 Mana
+20 Life Regen
+24 Mana Regen
+24% Damage with Magic Staffs
and +16% Spell Damagethat's in addition to the Ability Score increases along the way. We're only talking Talents here, too, Enchant your Gear and you can get some of these things as well, or increase some you already have.
