@Shirax said in Why this game is not fun:

Hello,

yesterday i started to play with 5 friends. We all are veterans and playing full loot games since 10+ years.
All have stopped playing after 2 days already because of the following reasons:

• Fighting system: Stupid left click on hard mobs without any progress, Killing mobs getting more skills yes we know but still the skills don't get better.

• Mage: Playing a mage in the beginning is pain in the ass. Following the tutorial questline does not make it better. Killing goblins as a mage is ... lets say not impossible but you have to be a try hard because you will die every 2 minutes and than you have to walk back for 15 minutes. Sounds good doesn't it?

• Getting gold for a house: This is the most crappy thing we have seen in a game. Farming 500 gold. hm ... Sounds easy in the beginning and it is but you need a few hours to get 500 gold to be able to buy a house plot. Why is it a few hours? The mobs we found were insane strong. As the abilities do not get stronger we need to hit 100 times to kill it. The next .. killing this mobs alone was impossible .. so we did it as a group. But the mobs drop 5-8 gold only. Each of us wanted to build a house not only one.

• Map size/farming and death: If you die a few times you don't get auto revive anymore. We saw the logic behind buuuuuut ... imagine you have to walk 20+ minutes to get to a mob spawn. Does that sound like fun if you die? Death has consequences right now is consequence is that people leave the game.

I know there a lot of old players who feeling like in old times when they started to play UO. I never played that game. I don't get nostaltic like others.

For me it was not possible to hold my friends in that game. They don't want to walk 20+ minutes without any progress, without any reward, without any fun.

I hope they will change the game 100% to make it more common accessable so not only UO nerds like it.

Thats our opinion and now you can start flaming. It doesn't matter ...

I play this game for first time on this open play test.

Targeting system is kinda bad right now I agree with this point. But it is not a game yet just a test.
I also played mage, it is not that bad. Mages are somewhat hard in the begining in most games. Things change drasticly once you get magic misiles and Frost Armor this are must have skills. I started in the south east.

I farmed zombies and spiders, I didn't find skeletons or goblins, once I found out the skeletons it went a lot faster. Yes dieing every two minutes is normal but you don't die you get knocked down when the green bar goes to 0. I made the newbish mistake you did too. I didn't know that red bar was my health so it got to 0 and I actualy died and had to walk back losing everything. I played solo all the way so was a lot more harder than your expirience in a group. But after the first dead and 10 minutes walk I learned that you make campfire and rest to restore all your red bar. So now you can get knocked down 100 times just resting at a campfire make you never die.
It is game changer, you just keep 10 stones and 5 branches at all time and you are good, just rest regulary and no problem.

After a day or so learning, I learned everything, now I can do everything with ease got a decent build and I can solo every single monster in the game with no problem enchanments are key!

Quite early to tell, but yes there are a lot of similar things.
I've played a lot of MMORPGs especially isometric ones and I prefer them.
20+ years playing such games.
If we compare it straight to Albion.
The Planet system is similar to the Blue,Yellow,Red,Black Zones in Albion. The difference from what I read and hear will be that all game content will be also on the PvE planet.(Still have to see how it is implemented tho like can you change planets and when and how)
Militia System is kinda similar to the Faction Warfare.
Albion skills are based on items that you wear while Fractured right now is more flexible but I'm afraid it will end up with very few builds skill wise but we have to wait and see as right now game balance is not yet known.
Gathering:
in Albion is a profession you have very few resource type and the whole gathering process is just to walk around and click things, while in Fractured seems there is no such role and it is like everyone can get everything relatively easy and even tho there is huge amount of resources I don't see much need to gather as you don't actually need that many yet.
Crafting:
So far crafting in Fractured is in way too early stage, it can go either way, you have the basic set, leather and cloth and some choices of materials I'm waiting to see how this will expand in future. Enchanting is cool concept but I feel it needs some RNG to be more exciting.
Albion crafting is very limited and straight forward, you have the basic 3 types heavy,medium,light with few sub types each(giving you different skills and a little different stats) then you have the tiers still very limited T4,T5,T6,T7,T8, and you have aditional tiers like .1,.2,.3 which you kinda sum. Very basic and very boring. And the Item Quality which is RNG. Leveling Crafting or Crafting is just get mats press craft. Also the whole player driven economy make it so crafting is actually costing you money and it is cheaper to buy crafted. The whole idea is that items are just consumable for the end game content which is PvP.
I would not call Albion Sandbox game as there is no sand, just a box.
PvP I have no idea how Fractured PvP will be. But Albion PvP is the content that is the focus of the game, it has some good sides and bad sides. It has Structured GvG(that used to be the main endgame kind of PvP) ZvZ that has always been a mess in Albion , And Ganking which is also the bane of all full loot mmorpgs 20v2.
MOBA style strutcured GvGs in Albion were dominated by the strongest teams and for very long time were limited to the "elite" then the crystal GvGs kinda fixed it but still the problem remains, you have to be extremely lucky to be able to form stable consistent team that can play all at the same time. Or if you just play with random people like SoloQ in LoL you are just donating gear. Imagine playing LoL against LCS teams as solo Q Gold rank.
ZvZ in Albion is and always will be cat and mouse game most of the time bigger blob wins. The Tactics are to zone lock with superior numbers. If inferior numbers just avoid fighting which is not fun at all.
Ganking can't be balanced thats the reality. Solo Ganking is OK in my opinion but if solo ganking is possible then two people with gank builds is way too strong. And you can't stop 20 or even more people to form gank parties, and it gets to the point where people counter this by just forming mega alliances to find safety in numbers just overwhelming regions with numbers that it is not viable for Gankers.
The only game I found ZvZ kinda working is GW2 with the WvW system when all the servers are populated and it is full numbers, equal items etc.
I want to see how Fractured will deal with this problems.
PvE albion in beta had really limited PvE fractured already seems on a good road to have more fun PvE.
Albion had some improvements over the years with more diversity with the random dungeons but still I would say it is kinda the same 3-4 mob factions repeating.
Fractured PvE right now have variety tho balance and monster AI/Agro/combos is off a bit. Also the targeting and combat system doesn't really work great right now.
I love the concept that you learn skills that the monsters use. But this rises a question how many more skills and monsters we can get? I mean balancing LoL character that has 4 skills is doable, but you can't balance combination of 8 when there are over 1000 different skills.
Player Housing
Albion resorted to the Personal Islands which are instanced, I loved the Ultima Online style where you could build almost anywhere in the world.
Fractured is a bit of both, but I can see problem with not enough claim spots, no idea how big the final world will be and what population numbers we are talking about here.
Player City Albion had guild controlled city territories which were almost never used as actual cities. Now they have hideouts but still not a real city.
I can't wait to see how Fractured player towns will work.

TLDR: There are difference and similarities but it is too early to tell what direction Fractured will take.

Hello while building the house, when the floor phase came I got stuck unable to exit as seen on the screenshot attached.
I think the issue was due to the land elevation under the house.
After the floor was finished, you could enter and exit the house without issues

P.S: Seems upload is not working so here is the screenshot

There was reason Albion had to go F2P. When the game released there was no content. There was insane population with queues and ZvZ was unplayable.
The PvE content in open world full loot PvP game was very few dungeons that were controlled by big alliances. So one big alliance have 100 people inside the dungeon and zerging basicaly fighting for mobs and exp. It was so bad that regular Expeditions were giving more consistent XP/h which was still very bad.
On top of that there was DDoS issues and even the biggest supporters of the game like myself quit in the first month.
It took more than year before steam release when enough content was added to get me back playing. Then again there was DDoS and performance issues that drove everyone out. Forcing the F2P. Running MMO is not cheap you need constant income stream to pay for wages and upkeep and release content. B2P with premium subscription and when the population get too low go F2P is the current safest standard. If you go F2P from the start and you lose that population you have no move to get fresh population into your game.

@Razvan said in Is this a new hyped up Albion or games that fall in that territory?:

@Gothix
People don't compare it to Albion because it's isometric, but because right now Albion is the most successful game with similar mechanics - full loot pvp and localized markets, dynamic economy, arpg-style gameplay, zones with different pvp rules, big guilds/zvz who fight over areas.

@AcOrP
There are enough examples in Albion were small guilds succeded despite having small ZvZ: articula mortis reaching crystal as a solo guild and taking over territories from EGO (a huge alliance at that moment); u12 academy taking over W Anglia; 1pg leaving squad and going solo in the middle of the season and ending up as a crystal guild controlling the whole swamp area in Mercia & pushing into archganistan.
PS: It's worth mentioning that Albion also had HCE (endgame pve content for carebears) and HGs (entry level 5v5 activity with pve).

I was part of U12 so I know from own experience I've done some GvGs and crystals. U12 was part of EGO we called it west EGO.
EGO was very very bad in ZvZ the only reason EGO was able to win some ZvZs was because of pure numbers.
The whole deal with GvG/crystals was that 1pg/U12/AM had good GvG teams, U12 had strong NA teams AM had strong EU Team. The other strong Anglia teams were PHRASINGs(NA) and TBI(EU they used MSSJ merc when they stopped paying they made new alliance and took everything from TBI) EGO had no GvG teams they were paying mercs that stoped mercing for EGO once they started the 1pg push in Mercia. The whole point is as long as you have 1 strong GvG team you just gain territory and letting other teams play was just for fun. B team lose a GvG no problem A team shows for counter attack and win back the territory.
Basicaly a 5 man guild could pretty much control large areas, newer team or lower skilled team is what I was talking about comparing solo q gold team fighting LCS team.
A teams were pretty much playing 4-5 GvGs per day + scrims while any team trying to compete was barely able to get into any GvGs as the outcome was pretty much known, I've had GvGs against PHRASING team with pug team, also I scrimmed against U12 A team with a pug team of very strong players.
I've had crystals against Cargera Glist and other GvGers from MG, it was a stomp, I felt like Sohrab getting owned by Cargera as RDPS.
It gets really expensive for new teams to compete as it is just donating gear, there was a point where when you face A team as a weaker team you just sit tent, and wait for your A team to fight them back.
HCE were just good EXP with very steep entry like IP requirments for the higher levels was basicaly the top tier.
I love the HGs the IP cap meant that if you had decent spec you could afford to go with somewhat cheap gear and afford to lose it.
HGs before the IP cap were again dominated and were content only for the very few top PvP Teams.

I think the movement speed cap at 50% is way low. Especially in the future where we will have beastman that are supposed to be fast.
Right now I can get to 50% with frenzy on even not on the roads which make roads not give higher speed.
People may say why would anyone want higher movement speed, well you need 50% speed bonus to catch deer with mele.
Also it helps a lot when gathering resources all around the map.

60 Point limit right now may feel like a lot but keep in mind a lot of the talent nodes are not implemented yet, also some of them are not really working this is the first test we have it. And I would say that 60 right now is OK.
If we get more nodes it may need to be increased.
KP cost is also OK at 1k.
After learning everything getting 60k KP spent on talents and learning few skills you are left with like 50k points if it cost more points then you will need a lot more content to get more KP.
So my opinion is that right now we have good balance.
I would like to see in future bigger tree with higher limit(maybe soft limit) with KP per talent point scaling.

60 Point limit right now may feel like a lot but keep in mind a lot of the talent nodes are not implemented yet, also some of them are not really working this is the first test we have it. And I would say that 60 right now is OK.
If we get more nodes it may need to be increased.
KP cost is also OK at 1k.
After learning everything getting 60k KP spent on talents and learning few skills you are left with like 50k points if it cost more points then you will need a lot more content to get more KP.
So my opinion is that right now we have good balance.
I would like to see in future bigger tree with higher limit(maybe soft limit) with KP per talent point scaling.

I think the movement speed cap at 50% is way low. Especially in the future where we will have beastman that are supposed to be fast.
Right now I can get to 50% with frenzy on even not on the roads which make roads not give higher speed.
People may say why would anyone want higher movement speed, well you need 50% speed bonus to catch deer with mele.
Also it helps a lot when gathering resources all around the map.

I don't experience this, I went 100% durability on my armor and my staff is still green. I do have the ricochet

I tried with Chestnut log and crafted a Mage shaft and then staff which should give Spell damage bonus but that doesn't seem to be the case, Is this the intended behaviour or is it a bug?

During worker transition there is corruption in the data,
In the following example when I transition I get encumbered debuff even tho my load is ok, when i go back to the other worker it gets removed.
This happens with other things, Frenzy buff for example, one worker has the effect the other doesn't.

I'm also expiriencing this, I'm not sure but I think the stats have hard cap at 20 for humans. But some other things are also not working I think.

Yay, I finally got it

@Shirax said in Why this game is not fun:

Hello,

yesterday i started to play with 5 friends. We all are veterans and playing full loot games since 10+ years.
All have stopped playing after 2 days already because of the following reasons:

• Fighting system: Stupid left click on hard mobs without any progress, Killing mobs getting more skills yes we know but still the skills don't get better.

• Mage: Playing a mage in the beginning is pain in the ass. Following the tutorial questline does not make it better. Killing goblins as a mage is ... lets say not impossible but you have to be a try hard because you will die every 2 minutes and than you have to walk back for 15 minutes. Sounds good doesn't it?

• Getting gold for a house: This is the most crappy thing we have seen in a game. Farming 500 gold. hm ... Sounds easy in the beginning and it is but you need a few hours to get 500 gold to be able to buy a house plot. Why is it a few hours? The mobs we found were insane strong. As the abilities do not get stronger we need to hit 100 times to kill it. The next .. killing this mobs alone was impossible .. so we did it as a group. But the mobs drop 5-8 gold only. Each of us wanted to build a house not only one.

• Map size/farming and death: If you die a few times you don't get auto revive anymore. We saw the logic behind buuuuuut ... imagine you have to walk 20+ minutes to get to a mob spawn. Does that sound like fun if you die? Death has consequences right now is consequence is that people leave the game.

I know there a lot of old players who feeling like in old times when they started to play UO. I never played that game. I don't get nostaltic like others.

For me it was not possible to hold my friends in that game. They don't want to walk 20+ minutes without any progress, without any reward, without any fun.

I hope they will change the game 100% to make it more common accessable so not only UO nerds like it.

Thats our opinion and now you can start flaming. It doesn't matter ...

I play this game for first time on this open play test.

Targeting system is kinda bad right now I agree with this point. But it is not a game yet just a test.
I also played mage, it is not that bad. Mages are somewhat hard in the begining in most games. Things change drasticly once you get magic misiles and Frost Armor this are must have skills. I started in the south east.

I farmed zombies and spiders, I didn't find skeletons or goblins, once I found out the skeletons it went a lot faster. Yes dieing every two minutes is normal but you don't die you get knocked down when the green bar goes to 0. I made the newbish mistake you did too. I didn't know that red bar was my health so it got to 0 and I actualy died and had to walk back losing everything. I played solo all the way so was a lot more harder than your expirience in a group. But after the first dead and 10 minutes walk I learned that you make campfire and rest to restore all your red bar. So now you can get knocked down 100 times just resting at a campfire make you never die.
It is game changer, you just keep 10 stones and 5 branches at all time and you are good, just rest regulary and no problem.

After a day or so learning, I learned everything, now I can do everything with ease got a decent build and I can solo every single monster in the game with no problem enchanments are key!

@Razvan said in Is this a new hyped up Albion or games that fall in that territory?:

@Gothix
People don't compare it to Albion because it's isometric, but because right now Albion is the most successful game with similar mechanics - full loot pvp and localized markets, dynamic economy, arpg-style gameplay, zones with different pvp rules, big guilds/zvz who fight over areas.

@AcOrP
There are enough examples in Albion were small guilds succeded despite having small ZvZ: articula mortis reaching crystal as a solo guild and taking over territories from EGO (a huge alliance at that moment); u12 academy taking over W Anglia; 1pg leaving squad and going solo in the middle of the season and ending up as a crystal guild controlling the whole swamp area in Mercia & pushing into archganistan.
PS: It's worth mentioning that Albion also had HCE (endgame pve content for carebears) and HGs (entry level 5v5 activity with pve).

I was part of U12 so I know from own experience I've done some GvGs and crystals. U12 was part of EGO we called it west EGO.
EGO was very very bad in ZvZ the only reason EGO was able to win some ZvZs was because of pure numbers.
The whole deal with GvG/crystals was that 1pg/U12/AM had good GvG teams, U12 had strong NA teams AM had strong EU Team. The other strong Anglia teams were PHRASINGs(NA) and TBI(EU they used MSSJ merc when they stopped paying they made new alliance and took everything from TBI) EGO had no GvG teams they were paying mercs that stoped mercing for EGO once they started the 1pg push in Mercia. The whole point is as long as you have 1 strong GvG team you just gain territory and letting other teams play was just for fun. B team lose a GvG no problem A team shows for counter attack and win back the territory.
Basicaly a 5 man guild could pretty much control large areas, newer team or lower skilled team is what I was talking about comparing solo q gold team fighting LCS team.
A teams were pretty much playing 4-5 GvGs per day + scrims while any team trying to compete was barely able to get into any GvGs as the outcome was pretty much known, I've had GvGs against PHRASING team with pug team, also I scrimmed against U12 A team with a pug team of very strong players.
I've had crystals against Cargera Glist and other GvGers from MG, it was a stomp, I felt like Sohrab getting owned by Cargera as RDPS.
It gets really expensive for new teams to compete as it is just donating gear, there was a point where when you face A team as a weaker team you just sit tent, and wait for your A team to fight them back.
HCE were just good EXP with very steep entry like IP requirments for the higher levels was basicaly the top tier.
I love the HGs the IP cap meant that if you had decent spec you could afford to go with somewhat cheap gear and afford to lose it.
HGs before the IP cap were again dominated and were content only for the very few top PvP Teams.

@Clinion said in What I "DO NOT" want to see in this game:

Recently, I have been watching alpha tests and introduction trailers of Albion Online. They have so much in common with Fractured in those early stages. However, Albion changed drastically over time and I did not quite like those changes. Here are a couple of things I do not want to see in Fractured(or change in Fractured)

• Albion has no players cities, only cities with rich people buying all the spots. I do not want to see that happen in Fractured.
• Gathering is very unpopular in Albion as far as I see. Game forces you to hardcore PvP and rewards those who does. Consequently people do not prefer gathering. Instead, they do newly introduced dungeons and hellgates to obtain money and gear.
• Related to previous matter, in a sandbox game, I would love to see gathering&crafting be the backbone of everything and they should be the primary focus.
• Being a sandbox game should not indicate complete freedom. Currently in Albion, they are trying to reduce the power of huge alliances and guilds by applying certain debuffs and so on. Instead, there should be limits for number of players in a guild/alliance for proper control.

Those are my ideas and I would love to see what the community thinks about them.

My two cents
Player cities is cool concept hope it works for Fractured.
But I don't agree with the point for Albion cities. Monopolies and cartels were just the natural outcome in sandbox game. I've owned plots(was never part of cartel) it was a lot of effort not making any money even losing money depending how much they bid on your plot on the auction. The problem is you only need one of each building in town and the lowest priced one get all the work. which result in price wars or cartels or monopolies. Also feeding/repairing and managing the buildings is a lot of effort.

Gathering in Albion: It is not unpopular there are a lot of gatherers. The problem is it is not fun. I was more economy focused gatherer/trader etc. I've gather a lot but just running and clicking things and running from Gankers is not fun. Also the whole material system is just bad, if you see resource that is non enchanted you have to wait for it to enchant but then someone else will get it so you gather it flat. Which is just bad feeling.
Also ganking is too easy compared to gathering, there are way way too many gankers and as gatherer you feel like fighting against the world.

I disagree with you on the last point. Being a sandbox game should not limit the guild member/alliance sizes. I've played many MMOs which had guild member limits very low and no alliances at all. People still made unofficial alliances this is politics and you won't change the people behavior with limits and rules.
The only game that has good large scale PvP is WvW in GW2 with hard limits on players participating, Albion tried this but people started zone locking surrounding zones...
You will always have such problems Limit a guild to 20 people then all you accomplish is a guild that mass all 20 will win against guild that could mass 10.
With 100 man guild vs 20 man guild, 20 man guild will complain against the numbers again. Open world massive ZvZ cannot be balanced, the only solution is buffs/debuffs but it has to be very severe similar to the Resource boss zerg buff in albion. You bring way too many people you make your enemies way way too overpowered and you lose.