Ideas you thought your were great but turned out not to be?
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I been on an instance raids targets are bad in open world games kick for awhile. I recently played Project1999 (Classic Everquest) and after a few instances of staying up 17 hours straight to try and get a raid target down before someone else got there. Yeah, that isn't fun.
Though. In a PVP Game that is completely different because then it wouldn't be "waiting" it would be PVPing. And then it wouldn't be a race to who can engage first with a winner take all, but, more PVP.
Are there any game concepts you thought were great but after trying them out turned out not to be for you?
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I like the fact how your story highlights how much certain design pillars of a game can intervene and effect each other. I'd say that's the key point, ideas aren't bad, it's rather that they might not blend well with other design decisions in a game and could very well turn out great under other conditions
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@Whisper said in Ideas you thought your were great but turned out not to be?:
Are there any game concepts you thought were great but after trying them out turned out not to be for you?
Daily quests. When i first started playing MMOs, i thought daily quests were great. Something fun to do, and you can do it repeatedly, since they are not only "one time" opportunity that expires when done.
Later on i very much changed my mind, and afterwards, I always hated daily quests from the bottom of my soul.
Something mandatory that you "have to" do every day to not miss out on benefits. Making the game a job.
Nowdays, I much prefer sandbox type games. Lots of options just thrown out there and you can do whatever you want, whenever you want, and there are no specific "mandatory" tasks that you "have to" do every day.
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@Gothix said in Ideas you thought your were great but turned out not to be?:
Daily quests. When i first started playing MMOs, i thought daily quests were great. Something fun to do, and you can do it repeatedly, since they are not only "one time" opportunity that expires when done.
Later on i very much changed my mind, and afterwards, I always hated daily quests from the bottom of my soul.
Something mandatory that you "have to" do every day to not miss out on benefits. Making the game a job.
I see your point, however... In a lot of circumstances, if there weren't any daily quests, there wouldn't be any reason at all to get on after a certain point, because there would be nothing to do if you do log in, whether it be for a repeating task to gradually reach a goal to improve or otherwise.
I don't really know if daily quests would tie in with this game though, being a player driven economy, but it does bring up the point of... What ARE we going to do from day to day if we don't? After we have finished the knowledge system, then what? What will drive players to keep playing when they reach 100%?
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LIF had several new points when it came out that alot of us in our gaming community thought were interesting. However upon playing with them we found them to be tedious and not much fun.
Player run economy: Not much fun trying to find the parts you needed to build things. You would end up ion chat spending several minutes if not hours trying to find hard to come by resources needed to finish off parts for completed group projects. Castle walls were very resource heavy.
No loot drops: Several of us worked hard worked our combat skills and got our gear only to find the combat boring. There was the occasional idiot who came into our village trying to play whack a miner that added a little excitement. Hunting though was just a waste of time. There were no npcs in the game when we played so the only thing to hunt were animals and they didn't drop anything but hides and meat. Granted at the time the server pops were very small. It was hard to find other players other than your own group.
No fast travel: One thing I loved about UO was the ability to recall and gate. As the world of UO grew it would have been very time consuming to travel around by foot/mount just to get where you wanted to go. There have been a few mmos that we played where you had to traverse the map to get to your location. By the time the majority got there they would run out of time to play and have to log. Then the small group left wouldn't be strong enough to explore it so the whole trip was a bust.
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if developers need daily mechanics then they should just work on the game itself to keep me occupied. i dont want a second job that i have to pay for.
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I also see daily rewards as a chore.
What about events that span over longer periods of time (1-3months irl) base on game lore, in which you mostly get cosmetic items? You don't have to login every day, you just have to get some achievements over the course of the event.
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Daily quests are a chore because of how they're presented. It's not that different from the player deciding to play the game and accomplish x every day except that instead of "getting to" it's "having to".
Daily quests are also a chore because of how many there are. There should always be a limit, such as doing any 5~10 daily quests per day, so you don't feel like you "wasted" the 100s of daily quests you didn't do.
Wherever possible, repeatable quests should be made organic. Instead of going to the NPC, getting the quest to turn in 100 rat tails, and then going out to fight 100 more rat boys and nothing else, then turning it in and then starting the quest again, you should always get rat tails as you fight rat boys and can just turn them in whenever for rewards.
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@FibS said in Ideas you thought your were great but turned out not to be?:
Daily quests are a chore because of how they're presented. It's not that different from the player deciding to play the game and accomplish x every day except that instead of "getting to" it's "having to".
Daily quests are also a chore because of how many there are. There should always be a limit, such as doing any 5~10 daily quests per day, so you don't feel like you "wasted" the 100s of daily quests you didn't do.
Wherever possible, repeatable quests should be made organic. Instead of going to the NPC, getting the quest to turn in 100 rat tails, and then going out to fight 100 more rat boys and nothing else, then turning it in and then starting the quest again, you should always get rat tails as you fight rat boys and can just turn them in whenever for rewards.
Was thinking about what was a good replacement for daily quests that stop it being a chore
Hearthstone for example lets you collect 3 days worth of dailys so you can do them in bulk, its not a bad system in that you are not forced to log in everyday or lose outMaple story had Daily dungeons so people couldnt hit the gear cap in one day (i didnt like that system - and its one of the reasons its now about to RIP)
In Vermintide diablo and other loot grinders, random stats on items and trying to get that optimal piece of gear keeps you replaying it fighting the RNG, providing the RNG doesn't break my gear (BDO) i dont mind this system, dunno how much gear RNG we will have with fractured though as they want people to be about equal power. so this is also likely not a option
Rep-grinding for cosmetics is fine, imo be nice if these kind of quests can be a bit more interesting then collect say 100000 of 1 item or kill set amount of mobs, but I like being able to cosmetic grind.
I like loot goblins/pack rats that lead you in to trouble chasing loot - be nice to see some Mimics (monsters in the shape of treasure chests) keep us on our toes.
another thing with questing i found really de-immersive was being on a urgent mission to save the world from big bad, but instead of getting on with that my char was being asked to collect berries or kill bugs.
simply just trying to avoid making the game feel like a chore and having to log in
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I think the concept of 'chores' is relevant. Generally, a chore doesn't take a lot of time but needs to be done everyday in order to support other activities. If the support for other activities is shown to be needful, worth the effort and has a clear benefit, then daily quests (aka chores) are not quite so onerous.
However, in the case of a repetitive and required grind, it becomes much more of a chore and moves into the onerous and "I refuse to do this anymore" category. I'm thinking mainly of reputation grinds that can take months, with little to show for the effort along the way. When I find this kind of daily quest, I pretty much automatically refuse it, even if it is a needful thing. I don't need another job.
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But it shouldn't seem like a chore. Whether it is done or not is completely up to you. You don't HAVE to do them every day.
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@Xzait said in Ideas you thought your were great but turned out not to be?:
What will drive players to keep playing when they reach 100%?
I think this is personal question. I can tell you what will drive me.
GvG, battle for control of territory, controlling trade routes, imposing rules, battle for reputation of your clan.
Social aspects.
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@Razvan said in Ideas you thought your were great but turned out not to be?:
I also see daily rewards as a chore.
What about events that span over longer periods of time (1-3months irl) base on game lore, in which you mostly get cosmetic items? You don't have to login every day, you just have to get some achievements over the course of the event.This indeed sounds better. Gives you more freedom to chose when to do something.
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accidentallybreaking my latop theday before my lock down started
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@Xzait said in Ideas you thought your were great but turned out not to be?:
But it shouldn't seem like a chore. Whether it is done or not is completely up to you. You don't HAVE to do them every day.
but you actually do. typically you'll fall behind in whatever is being traded for your time. whether it's gold, reputation, gear, azerite, etc. if you dont do them then you're behind those that are doing it every day.
one example i can give is World of Warcraft during the Dranor expansion. the Garrison was giving away millions of gold over the course of the expansion. if you missed it or opted out (like I did by not playing the expansion) then you lost that which gave you a huge advantage for any content afterwards. the inflation hit hard and the cost of items more than tripled over that expansion.
dailies shouldn't feel like a chore but you'll easily skip the harder or longer timed ones. Fractured isn't suppose to have any grind (however the developers envision it) so we shouldn't have any.
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@dj35 said in Ideas you thought your were great but turned out not to be?:
accidentallybreaking my latop theday before my lock down started
That's rough. Hope you have a desktop or something to take its place
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@Jetah well isn't that true for almost all "rewarded" game activities? if others grind more/day , the'll be ahead . if others raid more , the'll be ahead, more dailies , ahead ...
thats how it is in mmos i think.
my first and most loved mmo was ragnarok online back in 2002 . this game had almost no quests at all , the game was about player interaction. classes were designed to compliment each other... that leads me to :
Class design towards every class can do everything and abandonment of heal/support classes.
thats what i remember as the "death" for most mmos. player interaction , or better , player bonding is - in most "new" mmos - no longer rewarded. in my opinion this is the most important reward and its missing. players are interchangeable, all classes do the same dps , mostly just animation flips with the same dmg formula ( thats what it often feels like) to "balance" the classes.
Ragnarok died when they "rebalanced" , as in making all classes more alike, no more extremely op builds. game got stale and boring. then they implemented dailies and i agree , dailies turned out terrible because people no longer had the time to form mobbing parties that sometimes lasted for days, i could sometimes fall asleep for a few hours , wake up and the party was still going. With the implementation of dailies, people suddenly were on a rush to complete all the dailies and exhaust , burn out , log off.i wish fractured puts alot of emphasis on encouraging self rewarding player interaction where the reward is less found in items , but the joy playing together .
in ragnarok that worked , because of op builds that needed a lot of support classes ( or be extremely rich to buy potions) to work efficently. it gave support classes the backbone to be relevant, it rewarded skill since these class combinations and the monsters we were suddenly able to fight were so hard and complicated sometimes requiring "moorhuhn mastery skills" - ultra precise clicking , timing , movement, harder than anything i ever experienced in any raid or dungeon in world of war craft in the 5 years playing it. and in ragnarok we were just fighting normal monsters , for 1% exp every hour. we had incredible amounts of fun.
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in some ways, yes. there are lockouts for certain activities, such as some raids, which prevents multi-hour continuous farming.
there's a difference between "i need some gold, i can mine for an hour then head to bed" vs "the game is built around dailies which take 15 hours and if you dont do them you'll be behind by millions at the end of the year". you can replace gold with reputation too.giving a set amount of gold via dailies also speeds up the inflation in the game. while the people who can run them, daily, aren't hurt. those that fall behind eventually can't afford the things. it happened in WoW, where looking at the Traveler's Tundra Mammoth, the mount was 20k gold which was a whole amount during the WotLK expansion. had a person done the dailies during the TBC expansion then they would have had the gold easily to afford the mount back in 2008. fast forward to 2019, the Mighty Caravan Brutosaur cost 5 million gold. just leveling in BFA can net a character over 20k gold.
basically you either play the daily stuff to maintain your gold cushion, you play the market, struggle, or buy it via the Tokens.
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Oh my god... The dailies or general repetitive daily and weekly activities are something I have really learned to hate, mainly thanks for WoW. No game should design the content over repeatable quests and activities to ensure players to login. This can work at start but will definitely lead to boredom sooner or later. And this argument is based on 70 exalted faction reputation experience.
If a game is well designed in general and it offers different kind interesting things to do and meaningful goals to achieve, those will be enough to get players to login daily basis.
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@Jetah said in Ideas you thought your were great but turned out not to be?:
but you actually do. typically you'll fall behind in whatever is being traded for your time. whether it's gold, reputation, gear, azerite, etc. if you dont do them then you're behind those that are doing it every day.
That's literally how an MMORPG works. The basic idea of grinding to gain experience is the same. It's even a daily, if you take into account the XP decay system.
Oh, I'm sorry, you're not suffering XP decay as you play, you're earning "extra" experience by NOT playing, that's different.
