Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs
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my biggest grip is that this game is a full loot game. if it were WoW or another game where being killed doesn't mean being looted then i wouldn't care. it's better to make gameplay equal to everyone than grant even a minute amount of an advantage to some people that pay.
people will see these advantages, will see it's a full loot game and will call it p2w regardless how the developers PR their response.
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@kellewic said in Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs:
@phaethonas said in Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs:
@fibs said in Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs:
@phaethonas said in Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs:
[various complaints about VIP]
Knowledge Points are effectively experience points, but boosting XP gain is not pay to win, because in any game it does not increase the power ceiling, and in this one it doesn't increase power at all. Your character does not become "stronger" from gaining Knowledge Points, except for a short duration from the very start of the game when you don't have enough skills to fill out your build. Fractured is a game of lateral development, remember.
You may get to the top faster with VIP, but it is the exact same top. You will not disproportionately "win" against a non-paying player whose character is as equal to yours as possible without VIP, ergo you are not paying to win, ergo it is not pay to win.
So, if the level cap is 50 and I reach it at day one, but instead you require 5 months to reach it, that is not pay2win to you?! OK!
By this logic buying into alpha/beta is p2w since you gain game experience before others who don't pay and therefore accomplish more of the game faster. Even if you gain knowledge points at the same rate, knowing how to do so means you'll gain them faster due to buying in early, which gives an advantage by paying.
Note: I'm still on the fence of VIP and can see both sides for it and against it.
Depends on what you mean. If you mean that the alpha/beta tester will have gained more XP, knowledge points and so on, then I will say only one word; "wipe".
IF you mean that I will know the game better, then a) such experience will not be accumulated at early stages (e.g. alpha) and b) assuming that at beta (2) the game will be tested in its entirety, then yes, that would give the tester some advantage as well, but this will be no different than the advantage the player has that was at launch whereas I wasn't at launch.
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@phaethonas said in Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs:
You missed the point didn't you?
The point is that you will need more time to reach where I am, and in that time I will have done things like; being the first to clear a raid (special achievement unlock), have made more money, have better gear and so on.
None of which matters the slightest bit, because I'll catch up.
On my time, not yours.
Also, as detailed at another message/reply to you, you have misconceptions about the knowledge system.
Don't be a hypocrite.
It is not a matter of what I think, or what you think. It is a matter of reality.
Don't be pretentious, either.
Oh really? Let me put it another way then. An otherwise non competitive guild will have become competitive because their members paid.
Okay. Where's the part where they win?
A competitive guild won't need pay2win mechanics, but non-competitive guilds will use the pay2win mechanics and achieve the status of the competitive guild, in this example, versatility.
Okay. Where's the part where they win?
There is no need to put words into my mouth, I am quite open about my views, thank you very much.
Nor do I need to mock you, since you also make a fool of yourself just fine - but I'm still going to do it
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there is a such thing as 'you'll never catch up' mechanic. developer can put such a time wall up that it's impossible to ever catch up. Eve Online has that as an example. no matter how much you play you'll never obtain equal skill points as a 12 year vet (this is pre-injectors). I had a 10 year old character and not a single new player could catch up and I could never catch up with those that started 2 years before me.
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@jetah said in Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs:
there is a such thing as 'you'll never catch up' mechanic. developer can put such a time wall up that it's impossible to ever catch up. Eve Online has that as an example. no matter how much you play you'll never obtain equal skill points as a 12 year vet (this is pre-injectors). I had a 10 year old character and not a single new player could catch up and I could never catch up with those that started 2 years before me.
That's because EVE Online (and Black Desert Online) don't have a ceiling; you can continue to raise your character's power infinitely, it merely goes unfathomably slowly. Once you pass the "soft cap" the time gap between skill levels becomes unreasonable whether you have an XP boost system or not.
I absolutely despise that kind of pretentious game design and quit both games very very soon.
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Thank you @Prometheus for letting us know https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/post/38605
As for the others, your discussion about being against every small advantage by VIPs is going very confusing.
Some of you argue as it would be a f2p game.
Some of you scare about something you not know.
And some of you make big words and starts to fight each other.
We should discuss on an non emotional way, since the result of it will influence the game and how it will be.I don't want a game full of envy and greed.
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i can see it as a reproduction of real life. i'll never catch up to my fathers experience and knowledge while he's living.
@Kralith
small advantages are advantages. this is a full loot open world pvp game. knowledge and learning slots all need to be equal.
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I think that so far they pretty good. The tiers seem similar to past kickstarters that I have funded.
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@finland said in Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs:
RECRUIT – EARLY BIRD: 20
RECRUIT: 25
PIONEER: 40
FOUNDER – EARLY BIRD: 50
FOUNDER: 60I think this prices are little overcharged. i would pay this prices for a complete, tested and reviewed game, not for a game i have no idea how it will be in the end...
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@grofire you can always wait for full game and pay 30 for it. Kickstarter is always a risk but usually it works better then preorders
you have a lot of info how the game will shape up and when KS is up there will be even more info and videos.
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@Jetah yeah I agree, in full loot PvP game there should be no combat advantage gained by spending cash, or game will very quickly loose most of it's player base and die.
VIP can exist, but only in form of unique cosmetic rewards, perhaps a minimum convenience, but nothing that affects combat should be there.
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Yes and thats the point, do we really know if this will give us advantage in fight? We will not know till we see how knowledge will work ingame, not as long we not got more infos about. Just small timesaver don't affect fights for sure, there are systems, where they can exists with no effect to the equality of the player.
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I've never wanted to be able to raise a few thousand dollars of disposable income more in my life... Lol
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Would it be ok if you can exchange ingame gold with Dynamight Gold and buy the timesavers with that aswell?
So ppl can pay €10 euro's for a month of extra learning slots or pay 1000 ingame gold a month.
Isn't that how gw2 and EVE Online do it?
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Good point, we not even know, if this advantages by VIP also will be able to obtain ingame. Or was there some answer to it yet?
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they said that cosmetics from the cash shop were bound to the purchaser. Whether or not we can gift them (which i'm sure people will ask for) hasn't been answered.
it can be said that being able to buy optional subscriptions can become p2w too. not necessarily from the developer perspective but by a whale using their cash to buy VIP then trading that for goods in game. which is one reason I don't like the VIP idea.
@Prometheus
I don't believe you should discount the Immortal tier any. I know many want it but the value is too good as is.
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@jetah buying VIP with RL currencies does have to mean you can sell that ingame for goodies. It just depends on how you implement it.
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i'm talking about trading goods in game for VIP that someone else bought.
IE I have 2 VIP, you have 2 full armor sets. we trade. I get gear, you get 2 months VIP.
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@jetah said in Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs:
i'm talking about trading goods in game for VIP that someone else bought.
IE I have 2 VIP, you have 2 full armor sets. we trade. I get gear, you get 2 months VIP.
Bit late for me to think clear but that sounds to me like something to stay away from. Keep it simple and transparent. Sell the 2 full armor sets and with it get enough ingame gold to buy 1-2month of VIP.
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@jetah said in Kickstarter Update - Pledge Packs:
they said that cosmetics from the cash shop were bound to the purchaser. Whether or not we can gift them (which i'm sure people will ask for) hasn't been answered.
it can be said that being able to buy optional subscriptions can become p2w too. not necessarily from the developer perspective but by a whale using their cash to buy VIP then trading that for goods in game. which is one reason I don't like the VIP idea.
Not sure if it was stated, but wouldn't making VIP account-bound solve that? I kind of assume VIP would be account-bound since it's a subscription.
I don't think any cash shop items should be able to be traded for in-game currency. Traded for cash shop currency maybe.
@Prometheus
I don't believe you should discount the Immortal tier any. I know many want it but the value is too good as is.I agree here. There is a big difference between 2 years VIP and Lifetime VIP (same for Carpenter NPC) and really the difference of 125 euros (non early bird on Knight) is pretty sweet for that kind of upgrade.
