Ingots, Leather and Theft
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This morning I almost quit out of frustration and and anger. I had 4 moon steel ingots stolen from advanced smelters on a friend’s limited access plot. These smelters should have been a safe solution as only “trusted” folks had access and yet, despite this, I still had my ingots stolen. BTW there is a chest to place them in if you need to use the smelter and someone has finished ingots in it, so there is no excuse. Don’t even get me started on how impossible it is to use a fully public smelter or tanning tub. Unless you are standing over it when your items are done then you aren’t getting them and sometimes there will even be someone there waiting for your items to finish so they can steal it out from under you if they are faster (I’ve had it happen.) It’s simple, the inability to create and retrieve ingots and leather is way out of hand.
I don’t believe the best solution is to turn your personal plot into a factory, but this is what I have had to do. Please @Prometheus, a real resolution to the theft of leather from tanning tubs and ingots from smelters must be found and soon.
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I also think there should be something done with the crafting stations.
Perhaps make it so that only those who put the items in can pull them out again, along with whatever item they are used to make into. And every station should have a storage area for the finished items so they don't stop others from crafting their own items when that item is done.
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Hmm, I don't fully like it, but one possibility would be that you add a "Storage" tab to smelters and tanning tubes, like you currently have in the woodcutting station. When the smelter is done, the ingot/hide is transferred directly to the storage. This storage is personal, only the person who started the process can access it, similar to a bank.
To avoid abusing the smelters and tubes as additional storages, the storage for the smelters can hold only a single ingot and the tubes can hold only 8 leather. You can't tan or smelt anything if your personal storage for that facility isn't completely free.I don't like it because it creates an abstract storage space, but it would solve the issue by reusing mechanics that we already have (storage tab and personal storages).
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@spoletta I love the idea. Since the storage space would only hold what the smelters or tanning tubs can hold to begin with, and you can’t place new ingredients in until you take your old product out, it really isn’t any different than the item sitting in a smelter or tanning tub to begin with. The only differences are that no one can steal your items and no one can go missing and prevent others from using the facilities indefinitely.
I see it as a bending of the rules as opposed to a breaking of them. It is the best solution I have heard yet.
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@spoletta I second this suggestion.
It would be fine if there weren't snipers waiting by refining areas to try and grab them as they finish, even if you were watching over them, but come on! There should be some accountability there.
Another possible solution, although not as good, is to make your ingots only available to you for the first hour after smelting (same with Leather in tubs) and then after that, others can access them. This means you would want to schedule your refining accordingly, but at least it would prevent snipers from coming and grabbing them out from under your noses. It would also mean at most, the refining station would only be tied up for an extra hour before someone else could take out the finished product and place it in a storage chest (if they are honest) or in their inventory (if they insist on stealing) thus clearing the way for another to use the station.
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This is still a problem? I've seen this as a complaint in every test so far. Any fix where another player has a window to steal your items is not a fix to me. Crimes against others in a game is not realistic because there are no realistic punishments that suit the crime in the game. In real life there is death and imprisonment. You will never see such punishments befitting crimes so allowing the crimes is never going to be realistic or "fair".
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@GamerSeuss your idea would be fine except for the fact that for many folks their real life won't allow for this. It just isn't fair to penalize folks that have a limited amount of play time. This is one of the reasons that I like spoletta's idea so much; it take into consideration the fact that it might be a while before you can get back to the smelter or tanning tub.
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@StormBug I did say mine wasn't as good
[Edit]Another possibility: IF you're in a town with both the Refining Station and a Bank, and IF your Bank is not full, the Refined item could be automatically moved to your local Bank space if not picked up in say an Hour in game. Otherwise, the finished (refined) good is locked to you only and the refinery station is unusable by anyone else for that hour.
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@Farlander Yes this is still a problem, and I agree most wholeheartedly that this is not realistic or fair. To top it off there isn't even any way to tell who is doing the stealing unless you actually catch them in the act. We have no locks, no guards, not even any records of who accessed the tubs or smelters. Quite simply, we are at the moment, doomed.
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@StormBug said in Ingots, Leather and Theft:
I had 4 moon steel ingots stolen from advanced smelters on a friend’s limited access plot. These smelters should have been a safe solution as only “trusted” folks had access and yet, despite this, I still had my ingots stolen.
Hi Storm, I'm sorry for your loss of ingots. We're not aware of any bugs regarding access levels on processing stations in claims, so this means that one of the "trusted folks" actually wasn't trustworthy, right?
@spoletta we can't make it so that items in processing stations can only be taken out by the person who put them there and make the station unusable until said person does so. It would make sharing processing stations a pain - and they are often shared between many players.
What we would like to do is make access levels more sophisticated (= have more roles) and have a journal that recaps the usage of these stations, both for claims and cities. That would still mean an untrustworthy person that has been granted access could steal your stuff, but at least only people willing to betray your group publicly would actually commit the thievery, which would make it a lot less likely.
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Actually what I meant was that only the person with an ingot inside that storage couldn't use it, the other ones could, but having a log of who did what would already help a lot.
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@Prometheus said in Ingots, Leather and Theft:
What we would like to do is make access levels more sophisticated (= have more roles) and have a journal that recaps the usage of these stations, both for claims and cities. That would still mean an untrustworthy person that has been granted access could steal your stuff, but at least only people willing to betray your group publicly would actually commit the thievery, which would make it a lot less likely.
Glad to hear you want to work on more/better access levels.
I am curious how it will look like.And you are right, if some trustworthy is backstabbing you, it is not a case of access level, but the wrong trust you set in them.
As for now it is very difficult to find a thief, since there is no evidence who was the one. Either you need to blame all and kick everybody from your claim or live with the knowledge, that you can‘t find the backstabber, if he/she not say, he/she was it.
There is still one problem with the claims, that you maybe didn‘t noticed yet, even it was reported before, Prometheus. Co-Owner aren‘t allowed to invite people to the claim. Also there was some problem in previous test, that you can‘t pay upkeep for the Claim as a Co-Owner, but i didn‘t test yet, if it is still a thing.
Finding Thieves and kicking them from a town are also hard, since we don‘t have any chance to spot an account, since we just see account names that are often different from Character names. Kicking all Citizen, to be sure, the thief is kicked out, would also not be a good solution
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@Prometheus We would still rather see that materials and finished products are only removable by the one who inserted the materials in the first place. Improving the access roles wouldn't be that helpful; even if there were logs for accessing the station; we want to prevent the theft in the first place, not be able to find out who did it easily.
Just add in storage into each station where the finished items automatically go into so they do not block others from using the station, and make it so the one who placed the materials to make it is the only one who can take the finished item; possibly adding in a rule where they have to take that item out before using the station again.
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@TekNicTerror said in
Just add in storage into each station where the finished items automatically go into so they do not block others from using the station, and make it so the one who placed the materials to make it is the only one who can take the finished item; possibly adding in a rule where they have to take that item out before using the station again.
That is it exactly!
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@TekNicTerror said in Ingots, Leather and Theft:
(...)Just add in storage into each station where the finished items automatically go into so they do not block others from using the station, and make it so the one who placed the materials to make it is the only one who can take the finished item; possibly adding in a rule where they have to take that item out before using the station again.
That would mean a city needs only the main buildings and people can craft/refine everything nearly right away without having to get their own plots and building their own crafting stations though. Kind of completely removing the incentive for houses.
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I know this will get alot of backlash but just make the items process faster. Going through the various steps I can see add realism some want but I don't understand the time limit of waiting for the items to pop out hours later. I would much prefer to process the items and actually have them finished by the time I got through the process. Have a multiple step process so it is more than just click and receive.
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@Logain You will never get rid of the incentive to not have a house. I'm not sure if they are secured storage in this game but that is a huge incentive. Another is just owning one and saying look at what I have. Decorating a house is something people also enjoy.
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@Farlander the processing steps, especially the time, are what gives value to that resource.
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As Spoletta said, the fact that you need to spend some time to actually create a piece of gear or anything, gives value to that said thing.
Giving a time limit on processing things, makes a limit on how many things are created, therefore retaining things somewhat valuable.For example Plate armor or whatever, to get a set of plate armor you will need don't remember the exact number of ingots but lets say 15, and some more leather to make a set.
It took you sometime to process the ingots, to actually get the materials needed for it, and if you make it from high tier ingots even more so, making this armor valuable, and losing it will actually mean something to you, and this is what's needed in a game like this.
You want to rock good armor? sure, but you are risking losing it.
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@Logain the storage attached to the smelter or tanning tub would only hold the amount of product that can be produced in one run. A person would have to remove their items from the storage before they could use the tanning tub or smelter again. It isn't supposed to be anything more than a way to prevent theft and insure that people can't hold tubs and smelters hostage by leaving their products in them. You can only remove your finished items not put anything in.
