Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting
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@Gibbx I'm also a "min maxer". I'm always... wait, this feels strage somehow
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@Jetah but it was possible to solo kill bears in alpha 1 already... i killed at least 30 of them on my own trying to get a head (only to lose one and needing to get a second... not to mention claws for a necklace).
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It might actually be easier to find formulas because certain parts are not added in yet. Think of each category as a building block. As other stat producing parts are added in you can narrow down what it actually added.
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Right now, these are my big min-max questions based on Alpha:
- Will there be attribute caps? (25?)
- If so, can I reliably expect to boost an attribute from 20 to the cap with gear? (in Alpha you could get 5+ INT from gear)
- How do the permanent +2 attribute increases work from knowledge (can I get them for each attribute, or do I choose one attribute to boost, and that's it?)
The practical consideration is that there are nice bonuses for getting an attribute to natural 20, so depending on the answers to the above questions, it may be worthwhile to not push any attribute past natural 20, in favor of getting multiple attributes to 20.
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@Roccandil i think they r just gonna have a base stats cap. i dont see why you would get penalised like that by having already maxed out in one stat, to equip a piece of gear that increases it... then have it do nothing coz u were already maxed.
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@Farlander said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
It might actually be easier to find formulas because certain parts are not added in yet(...)
The problem is not in finding the formula, the problem is that the formula is very likely going to change drastically. There's plenty of features that are going to influence gameplay (and the algorithm) that aren't implemented yet and thus programmers use a simple placeholder instead until these features exist.
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Well, stat caps help you to guess how much of a stat you can get from gear, allowing you to apportion points better in character creation. If the cap is 25, and I can get +5 from gear, putting points in past 20 is a waste.
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@Pwnstar
also allows you to put points into other another stat. so once you hit 20-25 in strength you can craft with stats in vitality (or whatever).
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Problem with uncapped stat increases (from knowledge and from gear) is that game might get a tangible vertical progression like that. And that is kind of not advertised.
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Since players were able to find gear that boosted stats with fairly new characters in alpha I wonder how easy it will be to find gear once the game launches. How viable is it to get your character maxed to 20 on all stats? As was said will there be bonuses above the listed cap? So many questions I will need to answer before making a real character lol.
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I hope after launch such "stat" enhancing items are much harder to come by.
Probably the best thing wow did with classic was progression.There are other "stats" that everyone always forgets about on gear.
Such as armour, weight, damage, attack speed & durability.
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@Farlander Gear progression is supposed to be horizontal so you're not going to find items with better and better stats.
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@Specter said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
@Farlander Gear progression is supposed to be horizontal so you're not going to find items with better and better stats.
so we can craft the best item at the beginning of the game?
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@Jetah You won´t know the recipe to craft it and you won´t have the materials to do so.
Also the "best item" should not exist within Fractured anyways. Different builds / items should be more / less viable in different situations. Will be very interesting to see how they are going to handle the progression.
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I guess I'm not really understanding horizontal progression. Progression seems to suggest items get better but horizontal seems to suggest not going up. So how does something get better if it doesn't increase in power? What makes stuff better as it moves horizontally?
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@Farlander said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
I guess I'm not really understanding horizontal progression. Progression seems to suggest items get better but horizontal seems to suggest not going up. So how does something get better if it doesn't increase in power? What makes stuff better as it moves horizontally?
Compare having 5 STR and 5 INT to having 1 STR and 9 INT (or vice versa.)
That's horizontal, and in most games the purer build is better because it doesn't split the DPS, so it's a case where horizontal movement is an improvement.
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@Alexian said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
@Farlander said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
The majority of the guys that I know who pvp are definitely min/maxers. Trying to be better than other players is what they do. Roleplay, exploring, socializing with others at make believe tea parties is not their thing. Whether you pvp or not you still need to know this info because everyone who wants to explore everything will be forced into pvp at some point. I'm really interested in how a character improves. I'd love to see some hard numbers on gear, stats, knowledge and any other damage modifying effects that improve a character over time.
It’s for this reason, so eloquently written, that I don’t understand min-maxing in an MMORPG, where exploration and immersion are key components.
Well min-maxing has always been part of MMORPGs no matter if we are talking about PvE or PvP. Sometimes killing raid bosses or other players is really marginal and every small detail taking count (maxing dps for example) can make the difference. I have personally tried a lil bit leave min-maxing aside and more just enjoy playing the game. Even I play games more casual nowadays, I still have a very competitive mindset, which is why I still try to test out different kind of combinations and find ways to be more effective than others. So I guess I am trying to say, that MMORPGs offers so much different kind of content for different playstyles, which makes MMOs so great at first place.
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I'll just throw a crude example here.
On beginning, instantly, you will be able to craft an item (and use it quick so you are not naked):
+10 fire resist +10 frost resist +10 nature resist +10 shadow resist (total 40 in resistances)It will require some effort to make (customize an item):
+20 fire resist +20 frost resist (total 40 in resistances as well)It will require even more effort to specialize an item even more:
+40 fire resist (total 40 in resistances as well)None of these items is more powerful, its just that you can customize items to more fit specific circumstances, so on start you will not be able to own fire boss, but later with some effort you will be, even though you weren't getting more powerful gear, just more specialized one.
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@Eurav said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
@Jetah You won´t know the recipe to craft it and you won´t have the materials to do so.
Also the "best item" should not exist within Fractured anyways. Different builds / items should be more / less viable in different situations. Will be very interesting to see how they are going to handle the progression.
being that gear, attributes, skills is just a formula there will be a 'best', that's why min-maxers exist.
people will come close to reversing the formula so that they can get as much affect from the gear, attributes, and skills.@Farlander
the idea is more options but not more power.
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@Jetah Probably yes, but not necessarily with the stat allocation you want. Horizontal doesn't mean every item has the exact same stats, just that there are no direct linear upgrades or tiers.
