Give us Attribute Resets please
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I was speaking with @Spectre in game earlier today about changing/Resetting Attributes as i thought such a thing would be possible in a horizontal progressive game.
He mentioned that there was talk of maybe adding in something like limited resets...Currently the game feels very much designed for a traditional level up system where you can add attribute points to your character to great impact.
I say this because the way most abilities are designed relies to heavily on what attributes you currently have.
Without being able to freely change your attributes (even at a cost) Players are forced to only be able to use what works with the attributes they are given & not freely choose how to play the game themselves.In my opinion if your going to put a hard limit on attribute resets then you are killing your game.
You created a great kill points resource with the knowledge system, use it for other things too.
Give players 1 free Attribute reset, then make them pay 5,000 points each reset.
This way players will think twice before using it, but it is cheap enough that you might want to change attributes before a big fight or raid, etc.If you do not create the proper systems for people to use, your game is going to kill itself...
The only way limited resets would work is if attributes were worth nothing, hence you got nothing to reset...
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I'm very much the opposite there, I love when choices matter and have consequences. That said, I can see you point, but I'd say, before calling for a doomed game, we should wait till we have a feature complete game with content and only then judge how things feel and play.
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Diablo 2 had a few limited resets, but if you wanted a different build you made a new char, I like this system as each char feels diffrent and has diffrent uses keep it limited imo
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im very against attribute resets i love the style of this game and it is very groundbreaking and less repetitive in nature to other games but i think if you can respec for any occasion it will feel less like a persistent world it will already be easier than other games to make a char with the attributes you want and focus ur time in gaining knowledge for the skills you want without having to grind to max level then gear up also the cool focused attributes of the beastmen and demons make it even less viable because they have less points to spend and are given a discount in only some attributes that wont be needed in all builds i was thinking of taking a medium line human character with good int to give me alot of skill slots and plenty of flex with what skills i can use with gear to make a push in whatever direction i pick at the time to get the most out of a wide range of knowledge from exploring the world but that would be useless if resets were readily available (i understand that is just my personal fantasy
)
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I'm very much in favor of attribute resets. If there is any depth to Fractured at all, the attribute system will front-load a massive amount of gameplay choice for which a new player cannot possibly have the in-game experience to understand for themselves.
I would thus expect many new players to start off with a template build, and then figure out through actual gameplay experience that they would have much preferred X build optimization.
Thus not allowing resets would be frustrating for many people.
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As you will be able (in time) to learn (almost) all skills on 1 character, it would make sense to be able to reset your attributes if you like to play a different type (caster, melee, tanky, healer) further down the line.
If that would mean the ability to reset all the time as often and when you like is something else and is up to the Devs for sure. It might even be a possible revenue model in combination with some free resets fir example,
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@Logain
and that is praised until stats are nerfed and builds are nerfed then people will cry that their attributes need to be changed.@NeroulGB
problem is your (yes RL you) strength, stamina can change by doing or not doing things. having resets, limited of course, is better for the game.
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@Xzoviac Diablo 2 didn't add resets until 10 years after its initial launch & even then you only got 3.
Regardless Diablo revolves around vertical progression not horizontal progression, so the 3 resets suits it's style of game.@NeroulGB Agreed, i think that it shouldn't be super easy to re-spec.
But that doesn't mean it needs to have a limit or be super hard either.If there was a hard limit, then its like putting a timer on when people quit the game.
Say you have only 5 resets.
Use 1 on your first or maybe second day because you didn't like your chosen attributes.
Use 1 after a week or a month when you feel you have a grasp of what your doing.
Use 1 when the guild you joined recently asks you to fill a specific roll
Use 1 when you decide to go back being a lone wolf
Use 1 when you join another guild because you got lonely
Your guild wants to try something cool, but you got no resets.
So you go beg on the forums for more resets only to get no response.
Frustrated & not wanting to do everything all again on a new character you go find something new to play.
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@Jetah said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
(...)stats are nerfed and builds are nerfed(...)
That's kind of a different case. If there is a massive rework on skills, I'd certainly be in favor of a one time reset.
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As with any rpg -I´ll make like 50 characters before I find what I like best. If there´s some kind of encyclopedia or list of abilities (or even better the character builder), it would be only my fault to screw my character. I thought it´s normal to spend hours to min max character and create the whole build and only after the build is fully prepared, I enter the world and play. Theorycrafting is just as much fun as actual gameplay for some guys. I was totally fine with no resets in DII, because it was no carebear game, I thought this isn´t either. I´d only consider resets with new patches, where much is changer, or with DLCs due to new abilities, but thats it. Diablo had no stats, you could change your char every minute, so he was everything ... and nothing.
P.S.: DII got resets ? Why? Everyone went same stats (str for equip, dex max block or none, all to vit and none to energy).
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@asspirin well sometimes you did need some strength or dex for certain items and if you hped to much stats you could gimp what gear you could have on,
There was a skill reset too from the first act quest, if you wanted to change your entire build or made a mistake, you could save 3 copy of that for each difficulty
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I feel like resetting attributes would be cheating. Create your PC carefully and thoughtfully then work with what you have. Just because we can learn all that is learnable in the game doesn't mean that it will be useful to us, just like IRL. Some of my most fun PCs have been characters that I made character creation mistakes with. Figuring out how to fix then without respecing makes for a fun challenge (to me any way).
@NeroulGB Dude did you have traumatic experience as a child with punctuation marks? seriously hit the period and enter keys a few times
@Jetah Gamers always gonna be crying about something...
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I would not like if there would be a hard reset of the base values you chosed for your character.
I have in mind more a system, where you can change your base values while playing.
Lets say you chosed being intelligent but not having a big strength. Now you are using ingame just heavy Armor and a strong melee weapon.
While using this, you build up a kind of changing points for actions that are opposite to your choosen values.
If you have enough of them you will be able to remove a point of intelligence and put it into strength, to go closer to your chosen playstyle.Yes you will be not the good Mage anymore, but you will become probably a strong warrior over time.
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Changing your attributes slowly over time could work nicely.
Lets say you get to reallocate 1 point per week, but not for free, but by doing some tasks.
In this way people wouldn't just be able to switch around how they want, but would still be able, after a long time of playing to slowly change their character if they wished, and with an effort.
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Thought I'd put my two cents in:
The entire premise of a game like this is to be able to have meaningful choices when deciding on a build...
That being said, if I'm a brand new player and I create possibly a terrible non-meta character that I can't change over at least a reasonable period of time to refine based on what players find out, what patches come out, what skills change etc then what's the point in keeping that character when I know it's just never going to stack up even in a 1v1 against a competent player that isn't a casual gamer or whatever.
Fair enough, these things should take time but I should also have the option, be it expensive, to be able to change my attributes. I'd imagine Beastmen and Demons would feel the pain of this even more being even more "extreme" levels of skill investments if they couldn't change anything.
I am therefore of the opinion that we should implement an attribute system that reworks itself over time just like it would take time to gain knowledge points. An easy system to implement would be:
I am X, Y, Z, A, B, C stats... I wish to change A and C a little bit... I have to gather X amount of knowledge points but by the end of it I don't actually lose or consume the knowledge points to be able to do it, I just have to -get- them in the first place. Why would changing attributes cost knowledge when it is like "training". If I want my strength to get better then I will do strength based things, use melee weapons, supersize, practice against guild members, use specific strength based skills, invest in strength based knowledge points etc. If I wanted to increase intelligence then I need to read a book, do a certain thing involving gaining "dem smurts".
I am of the opinion as well that it should be a ruthless game like Tibia, UO or LoU... So I don't know. But there -should- be a system in place.
~ R
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if developers put out actual manuals, then I agree about
carefully and thoughtfullybut fact is they dont and only give you a few words to determine the permanent fate of your character. I've had some games where I wanted to be melee but found range so much better and vise versa. I also hate making permanent decisions before even playing the game!@Kralith
that's what I've been advocating about, but a more automated system, of attribute adjustments over time.@Rekington
I was thinking a tribute system of materials given to the Gods of the Karma/Planet. Have a month CD, say on the 1st of our month.I really like the idea that each character has a unique seed created and all random things are generated but i'm not sure how difficult that'd be.
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@NeroulGB
problem is your (yes RL you) strength, stamina can change by doing or not doing things. having resets, limited of course, is better for the game.Bit heavy handed m8 lol ill let you off because you dont know anything about me
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@Jetah said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
@Kralith
that's what I've been advocating about, but a more automated system, of attribute adjustments over time.Automatic adjustment would be a dream
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a weak person, a typical computer IT person, can work out to increase their strength. a strong person, take Arnold, can have an injury and have to stop working out. that's a case where your strength can increase and decrease.
Arnold actually had heart surgery and was told he couldn't heavy lift any more. He can only do endurance. His strength will decrease over the years.
@Kralith
using melee weapons should adjust your dex (for light-fast weapons) or strength (1h/shield and dual hand).
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maybe but before going into a game you should know what you are doing no?
