Importance of attributes triggering repetition?


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    So, correct me if I'm wrong, but in reading up on Fractured, I've noticed the following:

    • Attributes are absolutely critical to good builds;
    • Attributes cannot be reset (though I see something about possibly a few free respecs).

    In my RPG experience, I never get the attributes right for my playstyle the first time. πŸ™‚ So, I'm wondering if my experience in Fractured will be starting a new character, playing for a while, realizing I screwed up the attributes, and starting a brand-new character.

    For playing alpha/beta where the worlds will be zeroed anyhow, not a big deal, but if I were coming into a released game, I'd be worried about burning out after realizing my stat selections sucked.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    Why get burned out if a new character can still beat a old character since there are no power gaps? Rerolling characters is very common in mmorpgs anyway

    But for those that worry about it, just ask a veteran player ingame, on forum or on Discord before finalizing your attributes.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    @Roccandil you are correct.

    In any MMO you start off with less knowledge, and then over time you become more experienced. Attributes however will be theory crafted by many players before the game starts and, depending on role you wish to play, just pick out one already theory crafted attribute set and go with it.

    After you played for a while, and you will wish another character with another main role, just create an alt and get another attribute set (either pick it up from someone else again, or create your own now if you feel experienced enough).

    And if you go and create your own character on your own, without any experience, and screw up, they yes, if bad attribute distribution bothers you, you will just have to deal with it and re roll.


  • TF#7 - AMBASSADOR

    That is always a risk. Trying to get it right. Sounds like the value of knowledge is going to be great.


  • TF#9 - FIRST AMBASSADOR

    @roccandil said in Importance of attributes triggering repetition?:

    For playing alpha/beta where the worlds will be zeroed anyhow, not a big deal, but if I were coming into a released game, I'd be worried about burning out after realizing my stat selections sucked.

    use the power of alpha and beta to build the character you want. or wait till someone else produces the min-max results.



  • Agreed, I hope there is a way to reroll stats. I like to experiment with builds and endlessly remaking and deleting alts doesn't sound very appealing.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    I kinda like the permanency. You are born in certain way, and then you live and build around it.

    People do not just get to reroll attributes whenever next "cookie cutter" build comes around.


  • TF#6 - DIPLOMAT

    I would like to see a 'minimal variation' system in place, if possible. That is, you can engage in some in-game methods to slowly shift a few points. Just like you might work out with weights to be stronger, or run agility training courses, or do things to challenge your intellect.

    How far that should go, and whether they pick any system of change, no change, etc. is... well, something for the studio to decide imo. There's likely things that are more important than that realism.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    Yeah, I feel you. Not everyone wants to replay the game and without the ability to respec it kinda sucks.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    To make it very limited maybe an event once per 2 months or so that lasts 24h and you can respec in that time πŸ™‚ A conjunction of planets that lets you discover your new self! πŸ˜‰


  • TF#7 - AMBASSADOR

    I do remember the neural remaping for Eve Online was always one of those things you changed around when you wanted to learn skills faster.

    Sorta of bizarre when you think about it. Then again, no more so then being an "egg" in a ship.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    I guess I'd be ok with devs letting people shift 1 attribute point per month, and make it cost a lots of resources.

    I'm definitely not ok with people being able to respec a whole attribute set at any time new cookie cutter build comes around.


  • TF#5 - LEGATE

    @gothix

    @gothix said in Importance of attributes triggering repetition?:

    I guess I'd be ok with devs letting people shift 1 attribute point per month, and make it cost a lots of resources.

    I'm definitely not ok with people being able to respec a whole attribute set at any time new cookie cutter build comes around.

    Problem with that is it produces more powerful characters, since different points have different costs. The average for point distribution for a human is 6 15's - 90 points, effectively. another build is 3 18s, 3 10s - 84 points, in total. assuming you are willing to spend the 9 months manipulating things, the 6 15's become 3 18s, 1 16, and 2 10s (or 3 18s, 3 12s) - significantly better then the nearest starting equivalent.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    You already can sit at a campfire and use the rest ability to swap all your skills. If you can also swap your attributes, what need is there to ever create a 2nd character? I got six character slots in my kickstarter package... and I plan to use them in the long run.

    I like tanking for example. I will have one tank with max Strength and Constitution. And I will have another tank with those stats a bit lowered, but with higher intelligence to have magical defences. I'm looking forward to being a tank specialist so to speak.

    The ability to be a full healer, and then swap to full tank or dps seems so lame to me. Like the casual cater to all mmo crap I'm trying to avoid everywhere...



  • @benseine said in Importance of attributes triggering repetition?:

    If you can also swap your attributes, what need is there to ever create a 2nd character?

    To play as a different race. Also, you can have respecs without it being as easy as swapping skill loadouts.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    I never had a real problem with my chosen attributes, because i skill them fitting to my playstyle.
    But well, i also donβ€˜t have the sense to get the most effective combination to beat all the other players around.
    As i understanded the system of Fractured it will be always helpful, depending what you like to play and how you can support your group.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    For once I would like some company not to care about players crying. To see devs just let people cry and then laugh at them for sucking at gaming.

    This company would win my heart instantly.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @gothix said in Importance of attributes triggering repetition?:

    For once I would like some company not to care about players crying. To see devs just let people cry and then laugh at them for sucking at gaming.

    This company would win my heart instantly.

    I see this attitude a lot, and don't understand it. Customer service matters, and a good business exists to serve the customer, not the other way around.

    At any rate, in this case, I get the impression a key developer design philosophy is to mitigate or eliminate the repetition commonly known as grinding (and I'm intrigued simply to see their implementation).

    Inasmuch, however, as the stat mechanic promotes rerolling toons, it would appear to contradict that.

    Certainly, the developers don't have to design the game to allow respeccing stats, but it's the apparent conflict with their own philosophy that triggered my question in the first place. πŸ™‚


  • TF#3 - ENVOY

    I see two groups who will want to be able to respec.

    One is the new person who just decides to try the game out, doesn't really pay attention to the stats at first because he doesn't think he'll play it long, then discovers that he's got a truly borked build when he decides that he wants to continue playing. People like that should get one free respec to do it right.

    The other group is the min-maxxers. I don't think that min-maxxers should get respecs at all if they are just trying to figure out what will give them 1% extra power.

    I see a huge difference between the player that is dabbling for a few hours, then decides he wants to get serious, and the player that is trying to wring every last bit of power out of a build, and wants to change his stats around constantly.

    Maybe doing something like one free respec after 10 hours of play, that disappears if you haven't used it by the time you hit 15 hours of play.

    Maybe in addition to letting people choose their own allocations at the beginning of the game, the devs could offer a few preset stat allocations, and just name them "General spellcaster", "General warrior", etc. That way, more hardcore people could build their own theory-crafted stat allocations, and more casual minded players could just choose a preset stat allocation that will be good enough for most activities.



  • @needlehawk said in Importance of attributes triggering repetition?:

    People like that should get one free respec to do it right.

    This game has 400 skills that you can freely mix together and you have to choose how strong you want those skills to be before you even know what they are; not to mention that it takes time to max out skills to see their full potential. If you're going into the game blind and aren't following any guides, it will take far more than one or two tries to get right. This will lead to more cookie cutter builds; people are risk averse and if you tell someone that they can't undo a decision, they'll just look up how to do something the "right" way instead of experimenting themselves.

    This game's skill system is based on Guild Wars 1's. I welcome anyone who hasn't, to try it. And play through without undoing your attributes or following any guides or looking up what skills are in the game or how they scale with attributes. Even then the GW1 system spreads out build decisions over time making it less harsh than Fractured's "pick your final build at character creation".


 

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