Tanning Tubs Are a Disaster
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The current situation with tanning tubs is, unfortunately, untenable. If people were kind and knew how to share it would be fine; unfortunately people are greedy and vindictive, and so what we have is a disaster.
I personally had my Dire Wolf leather stolen right in front of me, just because the person stealing it had their leather stolen by someone else. I set a timer for my leather and was there to get it right on time, but they were grabbing it as fast as I was. Their excuse was that someone had stolen the “40” hides that they had placed previously.
Do we see the problem here? First of all the person is stealing from someone who is innocent and is justifying it with the fact that someone else stole from them. Then we have the fact that the thief was also a greedy person in the first place; after all they took up 40 spaces in the tanning tubs leaving little room, if any, for anyone else.
Seriously this is not about me or what I had taken. I have heard so many people complain about their leather or hides being stolen from the city tanning tubs. Something has to change. I personally want to be able to build my own again, but if that isn’t possible we have to have a way to prevent theft. It would also be nice if folks couldn’t take up an excessive amount of the available space.
Please find a solution to this issue. I don’t do the PvP part of the game but this is enough to make me want to smite someone.
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Yes, need tanning tube at home
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I like the ide of how it is now but we need more tools. Like to give the governor the power to set the access to the tubes, to make sure there right one use it. Second is maybe a type of access log to see who toke it out. if not the rightful owner kick them from the town.
And still way not keep it? If you want your leather you need to guard it. Place a guard (payed player) on it if you cant be online or do not want to pvp.
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Or, settle in a city that will create leather constantly for whoever wants it, whenever they want it. I just filled several tubs with dire wolf skins to make leather for anyone in my town who needs it. Once it's done, it'll just fill the chests beside. At some point, we'll craft and enchant gear to have on hand when people need it.
I have been adding enchantment stuff to a chest near the magic shop for people to use too, and there's a gem I put in there beside my gold. If someone in my town needs it more than I do, they're welcome to it. I will eventually build my own house (and not destroy it) and then put a chest in there to store some of my harder to get stuff.... but until then, if someone I'm playing with has a want to it, they can have it, I can always go get more.
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@Kirkuz I was online; I was standing right there watching the last two minutes count down. Guess what, so was someone else. When the time was up they stared grabbing my leather just as fast as I did. When I asked them if they just took my leather they said “yep” Their excuse was someone else stole theirs so they were going to take mine.
Hey, I didn’t take theirs. I didn’t take anyone’s. In fact, when I put my hides in the tub I made sure to leave room for other people to put some of their hides in as well. The thief that stole mine had 40 hides stolen. Why? Because they took up that much space at one time not caring if anyone else needed to tan their hides.
If standing there over your own hides as the last seconds tick off can’t protect them then there is a serious problem, and it isn’t with the folks putting the hides in the tanning tubs!
I set a timer. I was there to protect what was mine. It didn’t matter. This doesn’t work; plain and simple. I am very glad that some towns have honorable citizens. The hard facts though are that not all people work that way and there needs to be a reasonable solution. It is a big issue for a lot of people.
I, personally, would love to see the Powers That Be fix this issue while still maintaining the public tanning tubs. The idea that tanning your leather in the game is done in a public building is great, in my opinion.
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While I think that the intention behind the current set-up is so that people can carefully choose which city/group they want to be a part of, I do agree with you that it is a potential disaster for cities that plan to be made up of "non-guild citizens". Currently any citizen can put stuff in or pull stuff out of the specific city's tanning tubs. Greedy or impatient people will likely be inconsiderate and just steal things. The 16 hour tanning process being the longest crafting time (in this current version of the game) adds to the frustration of someone possibly stealing it or destroying it.
A group that is working honestly together to organize and share resources like my guild does can combat the greediness, but in turn it raises doubts about letting outsiders become citizens, which MAY hurt the community of the game. I can imagine that there would be quite a lot of drama over this issue in a city mixed of more than one guild, or a city made of "free citizen" players not affiliated with each other in any other way.
In addition, without a record of some kind to tell who placed an item in and who took it out, the potential for trolling a 16-hour cooldown is a big risk. Let's say player A and player B are both citizens of the same city. Player B is secretly a terrible evil person. Player A places his hides into the tanning tub. Player B goes to the tub when no one else is around, and deletes the leather. Player A comes back to no leather after waiting for 16 hours. He wants to complain to the governor, but nobody knows who did it! It happens again and again, and eventually player A gets fed up and leaves that city. Now the city is stuck with the secretly evil player B instead of having nice player A!
Maybe something has to be implemented to prevent these situations?
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From a community perspective I completely agree that tanning tubs should be public only. It helps coalesce the players around group membership and ownership. The current situation is unfortunate but I have a feeling this was by design to see what mechanics the Devs would want to add to the mix at this stage. I would suspect that NPCs would be helping manage this in the future as part of the town?
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Note: Long read, please be patient; there may be value in some part of it.
VALUE: I really LIKE the 16-hour tanning process; things SHOULD take work and effort and time to achieve and build, IF you want them to have value. Value in an MMO is something that takes time or money (and getting money takes time & effort, so therefore: time & effort = value).
REALITY: "Place a guard"; "Trust your town"; "Work with others"; "It's more realistic". While those are noble sentiments, none are very accurate or actually very feasible in an Online world (which we are). Right now, anybody can walk into town and take your hides; which is made possible because you must sleep at some point. In reality, you could have a dog bark, or place your tub in a locked fence.
PROBLEM/ISSUE: Tanning Tubs are having leather/hides taken. If enough people (% of players = concerned) are concerned with the loss of hides (enough that care or know how to comment (% of concerned), then one may conclude this is something that effects gameplay and enjoyment (at least for a portion of players (lets call them 'crafters'). This may lead crafters to question 'Why spend time/effort if the reward is uncertain?" That is: Why play a game that allows others to disrupt my working for my reward? We want to encourage players to hunt and craft.
SOLLUTION(S):
(1) The easiest solution is to say "working as intended"; that is... the difficulty of maintaining looter-free Tanning Tubs is meant to be an important part of game play, and used as a way increase the difficulty and rarity (and thereby value) of hunter/tanners.
(2) Make Tubs available in houses with outdoor/porch areas; this may not be the best option as it would de-value towns and the community, but would allow casual and individual players easier gameplay, as well as provide another reason to encourage porch spaces.
(3) Make tubs lootable only by the player who deposited the item and City Admins. This could cause problems with tying up Tubs as players neglect to pull their items, but could easily be overcome with an 'expiration period' after which anyone can pull the items; say, 4 hours?
(4) City 'roles' or 'crafters' could be appointed by City Administrators (i.e. Tailor, Carpenter, Mage, etc.) and only the appropriate City Crafter (or City Admins) can pull (or place?) items into the tubs (if setup that way by city admin). This could negatively slow the process down, but might encourage a whole new aspect of gameplay; that of Trades People. I find this concept to be the most appealing and exciting to me as a player and crafter (i.e. Place or pull processed items for gold or trade). Also, could allow for rent or taxes (or Upkeep/Maintenance costs as an intentional money sink) on trades-buildings to be established, but that's a whole different issue & topic.If you've read this far, thank you for your time and attention. I hope we continue to improve an already FANTASTIC game. I hope it never stops growing and evolving to make the game better for everybody; not easier... Better! -- Grimshok
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If the tanning process is only going to be available in towns, then maybe a Tanner NPC is a better interface than allowing players direct access to tanning tubs or whatever.
You bring your hides to the Tanner, who notes them in his ledger (server-side database just like the tanning tubs slots, but not directly accessible to players), then 16 hours later you can pick up your leather.
Maybe it could be possible to rob the Tanner's shop somehow if there really needs to be a way for players to do "the wrong thing".
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And this has been a problem with only 1 type of armour and shields being able to be crafted with leather and in cities of 20, 40, 60 people. Imagine when advanced medium / heavy armours, other weapons are implemented? and a city with hundreds of looters, I mean citizens?
I believe you can maintain the city's relevance to advanced craft without forcing the player into frustrating mechanics. If the process was different as if you could use the tanning tubes at home but this is only half the process, if after 16h on the tanning tube (or any amount of time you want) you had to take your half produced leather to a city and use a table to end the process in a personal window as it happens to make hide or something. And I say more, if this table that finishes the leather process charges a fee to the city owner guild, you still create competition between cities, people walking around the map with leather in their backpack to finish in cities that have better fees if they don't like their own city fee, etc.
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@Wennid said in Tanning Tubs Are a Disaster:
If the tanning process is only going to be available in towns, then maybe a Tanner NPC is a better interface than allowing players direct access to tanning tubs or whatever.
You bring your hides to the Tanner, who notes them in his ledger (server-side database just like the tanning tubs slots, but not directly accessible to players), then 16 hours later you can pick up your leather.
Maybe it could be possible to rob the Tanner's shop somehow if there really needs to be a way for players to do "the wrong thing".This would actually be a pretty cool mechanic. Could have it so the NPC has to be paid in gold (another city upkeep mechanic) and only has as many slots as tanning tub slots so the tubs still need to be created; the NPC is just watching over them.
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I would agree. Without better options for permissions(which allows restrictions to certain town-owned crafting stations for specific people or groups thereof), this is not an ideal situation. \
I can fully understand your frustration there, but this even more so makes guild cities, where players help each other more important than ever.
Silynx
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I don't know if any of you have realised... but the armour crafted with cured leather... is worse than the non-cured stuff... the only benefit of cured is that the chestplate is 3kg lighter... but it has far less defence... It is almost a waste of time even bothering with curing leather XD.
But, as a few people did comment, yes, if players are actively trying to craft them, it is very much more player friendly if the city isn't a city of rando's and everyone already knows who's task is what (crafter, gatherer, lumberer, etc.)
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@Xzait The leather armor is for light armor for casters. Hide armor is considered medium armor and so it has higher armor defense values, but casters cannot cast many abilities using medium armor.
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@StormBug At the moment I don't understand one thing. Why introduce this mechanic into the game? Why did they remove the old mechanics that were on the open test. This change is completely incomprehensible to me. I don't understand why it was made. This is a very, very strange decision. It scares me a little that developers make such decisions.
In the current situation, everyone wants to have their own city. Here is the only solution I see right now.
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I know people like the "realism" and having things take time, but I'd rather the tool immediately process your materials. If this is going to be a waiting game where I have to write down times for things to check I;m not going to be long for the game. I gave up facebook games where everything was set on timers for completion. Life is too short to be waiting on a game to have fun.
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I very much disagree with you there @Farlander. This is very different than the facebook games in the sense that not everything is on a long timer. Certain production aspects though may be. So unlike the games referenced, you can still do stuff at all times.
It purely limits the amount of leather that can be made in a certain time (per town atm) and therefore cause a certain price for leather. Obviously that's less important right now since leather armor is rather meh, but sure will have a greater impact after launch.
If this would be instant, the hide price would be equal to leather price more or less and we could just omit having leather all together - just call it hides, used for everything we need leather or hides for at this time. And I would say the same about any other production chain.
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@catraccoon Each test is a step closer to what the finished game will be. Just because something worked in one test doesn't mean it will be implemented the same in the next test. The tubs worked yes but we didn't have towns yet, so there was no way to test them in a town setting.
I would imaging that with some things it is easier to test them in steps. It would have been much harder to put those tubs in a town setting and get proper feedback on how that worked if they didn't know if the tubs worked properly to begin with.
I honestly believe that they will find a good solution for this issue.
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I reckon a better way for the devs to implement this is to let people choose professions at the beginning. Depending on what profession someone chooses to go with, alters the outcome of things that player can build on their own plot. Later on this can possibly be changed, but it would be at a very hefty price, as so players don't just swap over 20 times a day to craft literally everything on their own. In reality, if the game economy is going to be player based, all the town needs is possibly a place to store logs to build more houses, a place to store large stones for the same reason and a warehouse or 4, for players to store all their town shared loot with one another. Why have a tailor when, if they want there to be specific players doing their own professions, make it available for literally anyone in a township? I will make a new topic for this to see if anyone else thinks it is a good idea too. Then if enough people like the idea, the devs can get more of an idea as to if they should implement.
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@Farlander said in Tanning Tubs Are a Disaster:
I know people like the "realism" and having things take time, but I'd rather the tool immediately process your materials. If this is going to be a waiting game where I have to write down times for things to check I;m not going to be long for the game. I gave up facebook games where everything was set on timers for completion. Life is too short to be waiting on a game to have fun.
Considering the premise of Fractured as a sandbox with "hardcore"/inconvenient elements like having to physically bend over and pick up lumber, one log at a time, and place it in a handcart in order to move it from A to B... I expect that, to the devs and many of the backers, that's part of the fun. Count me among them; the end result is that I feel like I've truly accomplished something when it takes time and effort.
Fractured isn't a social media or mobile game and really shouldn't be compared to them. Respectfully, we disagree.
