@Farlander said in Tanning Tubs Are a Disaster:

@Alexian This is roght off the website under About

ABOUT FRACTURED
Fractured is the first open-world sandbox MMORPG mixing action combat with fully interactable environments, appealing equally to lovers of competitive and cooperative gameplay. Jump right into the fray from day one. Defeat your enemies through your own skill and cleverness, not equipment or level. Gather resources, craft, trade and venture into legendary travels as a solitary hero, or start a settlement with your guild and grow it into the next empire.

Where in there does it say playing Fractured is going to be tons of time waiting on timers, hardcore real work to play? In fact, the premise I would assert is it is a game where you jump right in having fun. Doesn't sound like they are implying you are going to be having huge time sinks for the things you do. What other players have talked about in the forums or in Discord that you may be inferring to is not what is listed here on the website description.

Life is Feudal had timers on all their crafting/growing. If you weren't there within the hour of it ending you lost everything. I don't want to see that in this game also.

I've emphasized specific words in the description you provided that indicate expenditure of player time and effort. "Gather," "grow," "venture," and an emphasis on "skill and cleverness" clearly oppose the notion of instant gratification in Fractured.

More importantly, specific features I've mentioned - such as bending over and picking up items, one at a time - have been inherent to the game since its very first playable Alpha tests.

From description to dev journals to gameplay, Fractured is clearly not intended to be akin to a mobile or Facebook game for casual players. Time, effort, organization, logistics, and administration play key roles in this game and the devs have been fully transparent about this fact from day one.

Respectfully, it seems like you want Fractured to become something completely antithetical to its conception. It's certainly your right to advocate for changes you feel are appropriate, but I stridently disagree with the nature of those proposed changes.

What is Zenith?

Zenith is the capital city of the Kingdom of Meridian, an ambitious Fractured nation.

We strive to be a nexus of commerce, diplomacy, and politics for Syndesia – as well as the gold standard for what an ambitious community can do by utilizing all of Fractured's sandbox mechanics.

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What is Meridian?

Much has been said about Meridian elsewhere, but in a nutshell... Meridian is a nation comprised of solo players, small groups, and client guilds.

Currently, it is comprised of two cities: the capital, Zenith, and an additional planned settlement called Yalahar.

Meridian is less a guild than it is a union of various, disparate parties who share a vision of Fractured as the era's ultimate sandbox MMORPG, harkening back to the days of Ultima Online and Tibia.

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How does Zenith work?

Zenith is meant to be a testament to Fractured's potential for player-controlled regions.

Unlike most other MMORPGs that offer player territory control, Zenith is intended to be more than a single guild-aligned city. We want our population to include solo players, small groups, and client guilds who have no desire in trying to claim and manage a city for themselves.

So imagine you're a Fractured solo player who has little interest in spending hours at a time in our Guilded server, chatting away. Perhaps your goal is to quietly live in or just outside the capital, leaving only to gold farm in Goblin Hills or employ the city smelters to transform your ore into precious ingots.

Well, as long as you pay your property taxes and contribute towards the common defense and prosperity, Zenith is the place for you.

Or imagine you're a small guild comprised of ten close friends. You have little interest in expansion and seek only to be a tight fellowship. Rather than attempt to claim and hold an entire city – a daunting task for any guild – you'd like to join a community where your guild mates can purchase residences, run your business, and even conduct your internal guild affairs in your own dedicated guild hall inside the city walls.

This, too, is possible in Zenith – with commitment, again, to common defense and prosperity.

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How is Zenith governed?

As detailed in the Meridian recruitment thread, Zenith is governed much like a real-world city/region/territory might be, in a vaguely feudal style:

Because Fractured requires players to actively manage the territory they claim, Meridian is structured like a real-world government. Authority and responsibility are invested in many officers who collaborate to achieve the vision of a single leader: the Meridian King.

As Meridian’s head of state, the king decides our goals, traditions, and values. As head of government, he ratifies, rejects, or repeals our laws and treaties, alliances and war declarations. The king may overrule any officer at will and has the exclusive right to surrender or disband the kingdom.

The king’s agenda is enforced by the royal court. This includes Governors, local executives who each command an assigned region in the king’s name, and the High Council, advisors who draft royal policy and manage unique portfolios. All are appointed by the king and serve at his pleasure.

The court is led by the king’s deputy, the Hand of the Crown. The Hand oversees Governors and general government operations. The Hand also chairs the High Council, organizing meetings, proposals, and updates for the king’s review. Except the king, the Hand may overrule any officer at will.

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How does this impact Zenith's citizens and residents?

As of the Spring 2021 Alpha test, Fractured has redefined the relationships between cities and those who engage with them, in ways that broadly support Meridian's vision. The game now distinguishes between citizens, residents, and guild members.

• Citizens are official, registered members of a city.
• Residents have purchased property inside the city walls or in one of the residential districts outside the walls.
• Guild members are official members of a guild, which may or may not be the ruling power behind a city.

It is possible for a person to assume all three of these roles simultaneously. Or only two. Or only one.

Zenith (a city) is the capital of the Kingdom of Meridian (a nation comprised of multiple cities). As stated above, our doors are open to solo players, small groups, and other guilds. Those who would join us would become citizens and residents of Zenith, official members of the city and owners of property within or just outside the city walls.

But the Meridian government's authority pertains only to matters of state, issues pertaining to the city. What you do with your playtime, what monsters you and your friends kill, what internal loot distribution policy your guild mandates for your guild events... have nothing to do with Zenith or the Meridian government as long as it does not undermine our prosperity and security.

In other words, for example: who you kill only matters to us if you kill a designated political ally, trading partner, or a fellow citizen unprovoked.

The Meridian government has no interest in policing your internal guild affairs. All we want to do is provide you a place to reliably and securely conduct those affairs if your guild shares our vision.

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What are Zenith's laws?

• Join Meridian’s official Guilded server. Guilded is a promising alternative to Discord currently in development and it is optimized for gaming guilds. Its features include integrated event calendars, a gameplay scheduling tool, document sections, message boards/forums, polls and forms, text and voice channels, and more. It is the hub of Meridian’s community.
• Stay informed. Don’t be lazy – Meridian officials shouldn’t have to track down individual members to give them updates that are easily found on our Guilded server.
• Maintain a healthy sense of humor. Life is hard and Fractured, like all games, is meant to be an escape from your daily troubles. In this community, the ability to be a bit silly and make/receive jokes is vital.
• Keep a good attitude. There’s a difference between smartass and asshole, honest and rude, cracking jokes in good fun and being an intolerable edgelord-memer. Don’t be a Chad: know the differences and behave accordingly.
• Get involved. We don’t (and refuse) to have a hard quota for participation and we don’t expect you to live in-game or on Guilded. But Meridian is a community: don’t be a stranger. Members who don’t engage at all and simply take up space in our server and towns will be removed.
• Show common courtesy. Going on an extended vacation? Give us a heads up. Taking a much-deserved break from Fractured? Give us a shout. Don’t be inconsiderate – it takes all of 30 seconds to fire up your mobile Guilded app and notify a Meridian officer of your absence or departure.
• Respect the chain of command. In Fractured, there are dire consequences for a community in chaos. The chain of command is essential for structure and long-term success. Obey accordingly.

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Nope. Thanks, but no thanks!

Fair enough.

We completely understand and would prefer not to waste your time or ours with an obvious mismatch.

The good news is, even this early in Fractured’s development cycle, there already are great guilds out there you may prefer….

• Vandiir is a prominent gaming community that’s found its way to Fractured. If you’re seeking strong fellowship but aren’t enticed by Meridian’s flavor, Vandiir’s lively and supportive culture may be just for you.
• But perhaps you favor more imperialization and conquest than Meridian intends to offer. In which case, we recommend taking a gander at Fractured’s most ambitious enterprise: The Shadow Empire, led by Vyr Vandalous.
• Or maybe you’re seeking a cerebral, actively roleplaying guild and have no idea where to start looking? Consider stately House Pythias, led by Tirinith Uundol Pythias.
• Additionally, you may consider the rapacious Horde of Tartaros, led by the blunt and uncompromising Rekington, if you seek to commit your prodigious bloodlust to an ambitious cause.

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Hell yes! Where do I sign up?

Meridian prefers a more personal approach: Apply on our Guilded server or hit myself or @Bardikens up via direct message here on the Fractured forums and let’s chat one-on-one.

@Farlander said in Tanning Tubs Are a Disaster:

I know people like the "realism" and having things take time, but I'd rather the tool immediately process your materials. If this is going to be a waiting game where I have to write down times for things to check I;m not going to be long for the game. I gave up facebook games where everything was set on timers for completion. Life is too short to be waiting on a game to have fun.

Considering the premise of Fractured as a sandbox with "hardcore"/inconvenient elements like having to physically bend over and pick up lumber, one log at a time, and place it in a handcart in order to move it from A to B... I expect that, to the devs and many of the backers, that's part of the fun. Count me among them; the end result is that I feel like I've truly accomplished something when it takes time and effort.

Fractured isn't a social media or mobile game and really shouldn't be compared to them. Respectfully, we disagree.

After consulting with our members and our leadership Council, @Bardikens and I drafted the feedback below regarding the Spring 2021 Alpha.

If there are things you selectively agree with, please be sure to identify them and co-sign. If there are things you disagree with, please let us know what and why.

We admit we don't have all the answers and are looking forward to open discussion and spirited debate from those who agree or disagree.

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What we like and why

• The tech tree: it provides more to city management than just sheer maintenance; you may select a "direction" of your city - e.g. banking and commerce by selecting banks and marketplaces, a crafting hub by selecting blacksmithing and engineering, or walls. We like that there are more branches in the tree than there are tech points to unlock them. We also like that the layers mean that cities can't plop down and erect all available blueprints in a matter of hours as was the case in previous tests; this encourages more longevity.

• Storehouses: provides in-world place to store goods that isn't a wagon or chest; it is purposeful, immersive, and helps occupy space in the city instead of cramming resources in a hundred scattered carts.

• Walls: they looked cool, added a sense of security by erecting a defined border, and required many resources.

• Cities as capitals of entire regions: this is a step in the right direction towards setting up cities as political hubs instead of randomly placed congregations in the middle of the wilderness.

• Reduced number of claimable cities: in previous tests, cities were too common and too easily claimed, thus significantly reducing the inherent value of owning one. In this test, cities felt more valuable and impressive.

• Knowledge sharing system (once fixed): it allows players to party up without being penalized.

• Open PvP conceptually: We appreciate the risks associated with playing on Syndesia. Though we hope that the criminal element will be meaningfully constrained in size and activity, we like that actions and movement carry with them the risk of attack or death. This makes player mobility much more thoughtful and meaningful.

• Jails with playtime sentences: we believe that real-time playtime sentences are the only remotely viable way to effectively deter griefing and ganking on Syndesia.

• Distinctions between guild members, citizens, and residents: Untethering cities directly from guilds and adding layers to city participation affords opportunities for cities to be more politically complex and dynamic as opposed to an Albion Online system where cities are owned directly and entirely by guilds and are synonymous.

• Regions are asymmetrical in size and resource wealth: Region asymmetry is realistic and immersive; not all real estate is equally attractive and makes region selection consequential.

• Cart theft: We appreciate the risks associated with carelessly leaving carts around unprotected. This will hopefully discourage attempts to circumvent building storehouses by storing resources in dozens of haphazardly strewn carts.

• City upkeep: Conceptually, we like the idea that cities require constant effort to maintain and aren't perpetual and don't run on autopilot.

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What we didn't like and why

• The tech tree: Very basic commodities were hidden behind layers of tech advancement, e.g. the marketplace. This is both unrealistic and delays, if not outright deters, commerce which should be one of the first aspects of any young city. Though the number of possible branches in the tech tree is greater than the possible points achievable, both numbers are close enough that cities aren't really specialized and can effectively be self-sufficient.

• City size: Cities, defined for our purposes as the public space within the four walls, are entirely too small. Dropping from 256x256m2 to 160x160m2 is a drastic reduction. Whereas in previous tests cities felt like thriving communities where citizens lived, worked, and congregated, now they feel the equivalent of gas stations (both in size and function).
  Cities are now places where all citizens go for a specific reason before returning to their homes outside the walls. This may not seem like an important change, but in our estimation it radically altered the feeling of the city.
  Moreover, even if we wanted to place residential plots inside the city, the available real estate was so sparse that it was prohibitively expensive.

• City prestige: Conceptually we like this idea, but its execution hints at future problems. City prestige should involve the construction of buildings with both utility and aesthetics as well as number of citizens and residents. Our fear is that people will cram statues into every available spot to min-max prestige. While this may not be entirely avoidable, steps should be taken to encourage cities to resemble actual cities and not a min-maxing shrine.

• Trade: What trade? The previous test for all its faults had relatively robust commerce. This test did not, except, perhaps at the end when most players stopped playing. Conceptually, we like the idea of untethered resources that can be harvested by enemies or brigands or unaffiliated players. This would also, theoretically, create a market or niche for traveling merchants and harvesters.
  However, these niches never manifested and because resources are now open to the first available claimant, players, small groups, and guilds avoided trade to collect the desired resources themselves; the risks and time investment involved were not prohibitively expensive.
  This, coupled with the fact that food scarcity did not begin to manifest until weeks into the test and the fact that marketplaces weren't immediately available to towns, killed any reason for trade.

• Lack of food scarcity: It was too easy to collect the cereals and meat involved to maintain city ranks even for those cities in infertile regions. Food scarcity seemingly didn't begin to hit cities until weeks into the test and by that point, many of those cities had already climbed high on the rank ladder.

• Immediate residential disintegration: Probably unintended due to decay mechanics not being implemented, but residential plots should not immediately vanish upon failure to pay city maintenance.

• Walls: Though visually impressive and resource-expensive, walls were too predetermined and static. We should be able to sacrifice internal space to add or customize walls.

• Potential abuses of residential mechanic: Regional residential plots as currently designed seem utterly abusable by bad faith actors. Zerg guilds and alliances could, relatively easily, generate the gold needed to disperse their members across the map to become residents of unaffiliated cities, allowing them an unearned foothold/safe zone into that region. That foothold can be used as a way to grief or exploit that city not necessarily due to any elaborate political cunning but by cheesing the mechanics.
  This, in turn, incentivizes another abuse of the system in response: patron guilds claiming all the available residential plots for their members and not encouraging solo players, small groups, or client guilds to take up residence in their cities.
  This may create a system where zerg guilds abuse the residential mechanic in bad faith by leveraging their numbers and wealth and other guilds shoving out a diverse residential population in order to prevent that from happening.

• Harbors, conceptually and as implemented: Fast-travel of any kind undercuts commerce, local markets, and the costs of long-distance power projection. They were supposed to be prohibitively expensive, but are not in practice. It was relatively cheap for @Bardikens to travel from one harbor to another despite approximately 89% encumbrance.

• Global wallet and linked marketplaces: Again, this undercuts the intent behind local markets. This tech should not exist. All markets should always be local and your gold should either be on your person (and thus losable) or in a local bank or chest where it shall remain unless you physically collect and move it.

• Prison system: We don't like that bounty hunters are mechanically referred to as sheriffs and are immediately identifiable via badge like an in-game moderator. We also don't like how bounties are not local and that all a person has to do to be made aware of bounties is to sign up in advance as a sheriff.

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What we'd like to see in the next test pertaining to all the above:

• Increased city size: For the reasons we stated above, cities should be closer to previous Alpha iterations in size. Every effort should be taken to make cities hubs for player interaction of all stripes, not merely convenience stations. Unless that is mechanically incentivized, players will spend as little time as possible in cities.

• An improved tech tree: For the reasons we stated above, the promising tech tree should be improved so that cities can't be entirely self-reliant.
  Careful, painful choices about urban development and specialty should be made by Governors and their governments. If it is possible for cities to be autarkies, that is what most, if not all of them, will become in the end.
  Trade and player interaction will only occur on any meaningful scale if mechanically incentivized. Additionally, for this reason, marketplaces should be among the immediately available blueprints.

• Asymmetrical regions: We'd like the next test to maintain region asymmetry with respect to size and resource wealth. This encourages trade, diplomacy, and warfare. Some regions should be more attractive than others, though none should be worthless.

• Food scarcity: This is the second test that failed farming and food scarcity. Region fertility should matter and should matter relatively quickly. It's not enough to implement food scarcity after cities climb to rank 15.
  Those who choose to build cities in infertile regions should have to immediately confront that infertility problem and turn to commercial, diplomatic, or military relationships with more fertile neighbors to address the issue.
  Even moderately fertile regions should struggle to create surplus and not without dropping farm plots inside the city, eating up valuable real estate and a tech point. As an aside, farm plots should be of neutral or slightly negative prestige if dropped inside city limits.

• A tweaked bounty system: Syndesia should be a place where criminals can succeed if they are appropriately cunning and swift. But systems should be created to keep the ganking/griefing element, which has directly contributed to the death of so many sandbox MMORPGs, to a minimum.
  We propose that bounties be local. Victims of crimes should have to create a bounty by going to a local prison and accepting a "do you want to report this crime" snapshot. Those bounties should then have to be directly sought and accepted by bounty hunters. Bounty hunters should not be identifiable with any in-game badge or icon. If you are the target of a bounty, you should not be able to suicide your way out of prison. Bounty hunters should have to investigate and seek out their targets based on the coordinates and name provided by the system-generated snapshot.
  Perhaps Governors and Vice Governors should be able to contribute to a bounty reward from city funds to incentivize bounty hunter activity and lawfulness in their region.

• No fast travel of any kind: Again, this undercuts Fractured's intent as a complex, deliberate, effortful sandbox that requires prioritization of time and cooperation with others. It would help neuter trade, logistics, and warfare by making it easier to cross vast distances, even if only in one direction.

• Claimable plots outside cities such as inns and homesteads: this would be attractive to solo players or small groups who don't want to live inside or attached to a city. Similar to what was in previous tests, you could have scattered plots throughout the continent where homesteads or inns could be created.
  Inns could be safepoints for travelers (valuable in the absence of fast travel) and their hearths could eliminate both fatigue and poisons and enable skill memorization.
  Perhaps these inns could trade with cities or merchants to stock up on certain adventuring supplies like food and mounts and bandages.

What is Meridian?

Meridian is not, strictly speaking, a guild in the conventional sense.

First and foremost, Meridian is an experiment.

Known formally as the Kingdom of Meridian, we are a Fractured nation based on Syndesia, headquartered in our capital Zenith, and designed to work like a real-world nation-state.

Most guilds in most games are merely social clubs for players, existing only for folks to group together to grind mobs and gank noobs. Meridian strives to be something very different – an enterprise that takes full advantage of Fractured’s diverse features and the developers’ ambitious vision.

We're a nation comprised of solo players, small groups, and guilds. Our purpose is to be creative builders in Fractured’s unique sandbox, creators of in-game content determined by a nuanced vision and fulfilled by a thriving community.

Come play your own game of thrones with us.

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What are Meridian’s goals?

As established by our founder and leader, Beradus Valarn, Meridian is defined by two primary goals.

First, we work diligently to be creators of in-game content.

How many of you have tried to recapture the epic sandbox moments of your past, eager to relive the glory days of Ultima Online, Tibia, EverQuest, and the like? Or what about those of you who never played those games first hand nor experienced those moments directly but have sought them out anyway, only to be disappointed when you step into a litter box that pretends to be a sandbox?

We know your pain, trust me. For games like these to succeed, it’s imperative that like-minded players find each other, organize, and fulfill Fractured’s potential for unparalleled fun together. Therefore, Meridian is mobilized to do its part to create in-game content for its members, its allies, and even its enemies.

Second, Meridian strives to make its regions the most nuanced and successful on Syndesia.

We intend to bury our hands deep in Fractured’s sandbox to build an empire. Military alliances shall be established for mutual protection; trade agreements with viable partners must be negotiated for mutual prosperity; mercenary services may be employed for additional security.

Meridian intends to be both host and facilitator for as many of these niche entities and organizations as possible, doing our part to vigorously promote a politically-dynamic environment where all can succeed.

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Is Meridian a roleplay guild?

Not really.

While Meridian is unapologetically ambitious and stylized, we aren’t a strict roleplaying guild. You’re more likely to find our members comparing Netflix queues and bemoaning about the state of modern games than channeling their inner thespian.

That said, Fractured is still a video game and, by definition, everyone who plays is some type of nerd – so Meridian proudly flaunts its pageantry.

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How does Meridian’s government work?

Because Fractured requires players to actively manage the territory they claim, Meridian is structured like a real-world government. Authority and responsibility are invested in many officers who collaborate to achieve the vision of a single leader: the Meridian King.

As Meridian’s head of state, the king decides our goals, traditions, and values. As head of government, he ratifies, rejects, or repeals our laws and treaties, alliances and war declarations. The king may overrule any officer at will and has the exclusive right to surrender or disband the kingdom.

The king’s agenda is enforced by the royal court. This includes Governors, local executives who each command an assigned region in the king’s name, and the High Council, advisors who draft royal policy and manage unique portfolios. All are appointed by the king and serve at his pleasure.

The court is led by the king’s deputy, the Hand of the Crown. The Hand oversees Governors and general government operations. The Hand also chairs the High Council, organizing meetings, proposals, and updates for the king’s review. Except the king, the Hand may overrule any officer at will.

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What are Meridian’s rules?

• Join Meridian’s official Guilded server. Guilded is a promising alternative to Discord currently in development and it is optimized for gaming guilds. Its features include integrated event calendars, a gameplay scheduling tool, document sections, message boards/forums, polls and forms, text and voice channels, and more. It is the hub of Meridian’s community.
• Stay informed. Don’t be lazy – Meridian officials shouldn’t have to track down individual members to give them updates that are easily found on our Guilded server.
• Maintain a healthy sense of humor. Life is hard and Fractured, like all games, is meant to be an escape from your daily troubles. In this community, the ability to be a bit silly and make/receive jokes is vital.
• Keep a good attitude. There’s a difference between smartass and asshole, honest and rude, cracking jokes in good fun and being an intolerable edgelord-memer. Don’t be a Chad: know the differences and behave accordingly.
• Get involved. We don’t (and refuse) to have a hard quota for participation and we don’t expect you to live in-game or on Guilded. But Meridian is a community: don’t be a stranger. Members who don’t engage at all and simply take up space in our server and towns will be removed.
• Show common courtesy. Going on an extended vacation? Give us a heads up. Taking a much-deserved break from Fractured? Give us a shout. Don’t be inconsiderate – it takes all of 30 seconds to fire up your mobile Guilded app and notify a Meridian officer of your absence or departure.
• Respect the chain of command. In Fractured, there are dire consequences for a community in chaos. The chain of command is essential for structure and long-term success. Obey accordingly.

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What can you expect?

Someone wise once asserted that the key to happiness is shrewd expectation management. We in Meridian couldn’t agree more. Here’s what you can expect from us:

Real life comes first. Exactly what it says on the tin. Don’t let games or guilds contribute to a divorce or unemployment or friendlessness.

You can expect organization. The chain of command is forged with links of purpose. Every role has a unique responsibility. We strive for cohesive excellence.

You can expect ambition. Every great power starts from humble origins. We’ll never rule the real world, but here we can create our own realm. Let’s co-author Fractured’s greatest success story together.

You can expect creativity. Fractured promises to provide the tools, but this is ultimately a sandbox. We’ll need to build the castles ourselves.

You can expect opportunity. Despite our best efforts, we’re far from perfect. Meridian offers its citizens the chance and platform to make us better. Identify a problem and contribute to the solution.

You can expect community. This is at the heart of our culture. Meridian is a quilt of cooperation weaved from a patchwork of misfits, malcontents, and misanthropes. Be part of it; get involved.

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What are we looking for?

We’re not a cookie-cutter group and we don’t spam generic invitations.

Meridian is proud of its discerning tastes. In an era where gamers are often antisocial, indifferent, and noncommittal, we seek members who are active, dedicated, and loyal. Anything less isn’t worth our time.

Other guilds in other games prioritize stats over substance, exploit drones, and tolerate toxicity. Meanwhile, Fractured is committed to horizontal progression and emergent gameplay. In such an environment, Meridian recognizes the most important attribute is a good attitude.

Assholes and edgelords need not apply.

Sound interesting?

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Nope. Thanks, but no thanks!

Fair enough.

We completely understand and would prefer not to waste your time or ours with an obvious mismatch.

The good news is, even this early in Fractured’s development cycle, there already are great guilds out there you may prefer….

Vandiir is a prominent gaming community that’s found its way to Fractured. If you’re seeking strong fellowship but aren’t enticed by Meridian’s flavor, Vandiir’s lively and supportive culture may be just for you.

But perhaps you favor more imperialization and conquest than Meridian intends to offer. In which case, we recommend taking a gander at Fractured’s most ambitious enterprise: The Shadow Empire, led by Vyr Vandalous.

Or maybe you’re seeking a cerebral, actively roleplaying guild and have no idea where to start looking? Consider stately House Pythias, led by Tirinith Uundol Pythias.

Additionally, you may consider the rapacious Horde of Tartaros, led by the blunt and uncompromising Rekington, if you seek to commit your prodigious bloodlust to an ambitious cause.

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Hell yes! Where do I sign up?

Meridian prefers a more personal approach: Apply on our Guilded server or hit myself or @Bardikens up via direct message here on the Fractured forums and let’s chat one-on-one.

One of the many selling points of Fractured conceptually is that it has thus far avoided the p2w model.

In-game currency is so far not slated to be part of DynaMight game store and I hope it stays that way forever.

If they ever do that, it’ll set the game up for failure.

I know I already tossed in my $0.02, but I scrounged around for 2 more.

Much of this is rehashed from my conversations with @MrFlako, @Nekrage, and @Rife, but I'd like feedback from others as well.

As a preface, I've been a staunch advocate for Fractured to implement "hardcore" gameplay mechanics like unit collision and total friendly fire (for alliances, guilds, and yes, even parties) for years. I completely oppose notions like linked gold funds aka the Global Wallet, universal markets aka the Linked Marketplace, and fast travel in any form, including Harbors. I have no interest in many QoL "improvements" like auto-stack, mass select, and most auto-functions.

In sum, I personally want Fractured to be a complex, thoughtful, inconvenient game where effort, logistics, and manpower must carefully considered and allocated, where no action is taken for granted.

In a perfect world, I'd love the notion of an "Anything Goes" game system where players could do whatever they wanted but where player-created and run social systems would create a largely orderly game where excess crime is severely curtailed by player actions as opposed to mechanical systems like prisons, etc.

...But I've never seen that happen.

As I've repeatedly mentioned on these forums and in Discord, it's important to remember that Fractured is a video game. So whereas real life would technically qualify as "full loot PvP," where no invisible wall or magical shield is protecting my neighbor from me breaking open the door, robbing them or worse, general goodwill and the threat of consequences keeps me and the vast majority of others from doing that. Most people in most places are able to operate throughout their lives unmolested by crime or danger. Criminals represent a tiny, infinitesimal fraction of the global population and are only disproportionately active in very few areas at very few times.

^ This doesn't and probably can't exist in a video game, where criminals respawn after character death or can simply log into an alt character. The organic consequences that constrain criminals/griefers/gankers in real life don't exist in a video game. And if those constraints don't and can't organically exist, then they'll need to be mechanically imposed in order to keep Fractured's population content and reasonably high.

So short of things like single character accounts (which I also support) or permadeath (which I don't), we have to get creative to artificially constrain "criminal" behavior on Syndesia so that it doesn't run rampant as it probably will on Tartaros without also making it non-existent as it probably will be on Arboreus.

I support the notion of prisons because I like it conceptually. It makes sense to me. Since you can't permanently kill the player character or keep them from logging into another character, it seems to me that the best way to deter rampant crime is to remove playtime from the offending player if they're caught.

Some, like @MrFlako, @Nekrage, and @Rife suggest that this would cause players to quit the game. Perhaps they're right; but we also know that there's a correlation between unhemmed griefing and dead sandbox MMOs, so just letting criminals do whatever they want without prohibitive consequences is the wrong answer as well.

@Rife suggests just keeping it reduced to a fine/farming for the bail money. I support this if and only if it proves to work as a deterrent: if the bail is prohibitively expensive and keeps the griefing/ganking/"criminal" activity to a relative minimum and puts a healthy level of fear in aspiring criminals on Syndesia, then I'm fine with dispensing from real-time time-outs.

However, I genuinely don't believe the fines will work as an effective deterrent once the game launches. Players will presumably have the 20 Young hours to farm as much gold as possible or link up with powerful, wealthy zerg guilds. Once trading and markets come online, revenue streams and inflation increase and suddenly folks have plenty of ways to get the money needed to bail themselves out or bail out their friends.

But I'm willing to be convinced.

Other things I'd like to reiterate:

• I completely oppose criminals qualifying for a bounty simply by flagging for PvP on Syndesia. This is far too punitive; players should actually have to commit crimes to merit a bounty; simply indicating that you might commit a crime isn't sufficient.
• The bounty mechanic should be as much a challenge for the hunter as it is the hunted. Targets should not blip on every sheriff's radar automatically. Crimes should be local and so should bounties. Victims of those crimes should have to go to the nearest city and submit a bounty form: offender's name and coordinates of the crime. Bounty hunters should have to go to prisons and manually select the contract.
• Sheriffs should not be immediately visible to anyone, nor should criminals... mostly. Sheriffs should never be visible to John Q public. Criminals should be able to unflag until they reach extraordinary high levels of karma. Investigation and effort need to be put into this system.

Good morning all!

Meridian's capital, Zenith, has been founded. Anyone who's read this thread or that one and shares our vision of a complex, dynamic community is encouraged to join.

Solid feedback all around.

Locking the marketplace behind several tech tree layers was a bad idea; it should be among the first accessible buildings for cities for both practical and "realistic" reasons.

Additionally, untethering resource nodes from cities/regions means that players and rival cities/guilds can harvest those resources directly, forgoing the need to interact with others. As much as I like and want unprotected resources, it has emphasized broad gamer anti-social tendencies; why trade or engage with others on a wide scale when you can take some extra time to do it yourself?

In hindsight, I think it was a bit naïve for any of us to assume that mere distance alone would compel players/groups/guilds/cities to trade with one another.

Then, of course, you throw harbors into the mix and it further deters trade. @Bardikens testified that the harbor prices are not prohibitively expensive; at 89% personal capacity, it cost him about 500g. That's... a hilariously insignificant amount of gold. You could zap yourself across the continent, march to the nearest resource node you want, build the carts there, harvest the node, and march back across the continent.

Points of emphasis for me, as of now:

• Put the marketplace at the lowest branch of the tech tree
• Ditch harbors; seriously, no need for fast travel
• We may need to revisit locking resources to cities so it prevents rival cities from harvesting them directly, forgoing trade
• Emphasize/incentivize niche roles like roaming merchants/merchant caravans/merchant guilds to travel between cities

Good afternoon @Prometheus and @Znirf!

I'd like to know where we stand on the promised and highly anticipated developer forum for Immortal+ pledge backers. Do you have an ETA for this feature that you can share with us?

Thanks in advance!

@GamerSeuss said in Markets and Merchant Guilds - A Reimagining of the Current System:

@BitterLoD Exactly. I've been a Solo player 99.9% of the time since the late 90s when MMOs came out, and if anything, that's the main draw that keeps getting handicapped by MMOs as new expansions and games came out.

I was a member of a Guild in EverQuest with one of my characters. They were fun folks, and from all over the globe...shoot, we even met up in Florida for a Camp-out and picnic experience one weekend with people coming from as far away as Germany. That being said, that is more like the exception to my experience, not the be all, end all of it.

To be very clear in case there's any confusion, no one in this thread is advocating for a system that requires or compels you to join a guild. That would be lazy and unimaginative.

Rather, what we're advocating is a system that compels participation in a community... even peripherally. Solo players should have to interact to some degree with local cities, local markets, and local politics in order to thrive in the game. A solo player should not be able to essentially be a One-Man-Civilization unto himself.

I do not expect nor do I want everyone to have to sign up for a guild and sit in that guild's Discord server when they'd rather explore the world by themselves and only come into town when they need to purchase or sell their wares or participate in that town's defense.

Fractured has already taken great steps in this respect by decoupling cities from guilds. A player can be a guild member or not, a city resident or not, a city citizen or not, or any combination thereof. You don't have to own, lead, or be part of a guild to claim or conquer a city. It's a nuanced system with potential for even more nuance.

It is precisely because I want to avoid the boring, stagnant dynamic of GUILDS ONLY that I endorse the mechanic @Bardikens has proposed here. It adds another layer to the socioeconomic and political onion by distinguishing the standard citizen and group from merchants. As a bonus, it would allow Fractured to actually employ the term "guild" as it is correctly defined if merchants wished to band together.

Without systems to incentivize actual merchanting, actual merchants effectively won't exist.

(And to clarify, when I say "merchant," I don't mean someone who is merely a purchaser or seller of goods (as all or most players would qualify). I refer to someone whose primary role in the game is to peddle wares and make purchases of scale to further the economy. A niche roleplay loop.)

@GamerSeuss said in Markets and Merchant Guilds - A Reimagining of the Current System:

@Alexian Just because I don't interpret what you say directly how you mean it doesn't mean I don't read it.

When your "interpretation" of my words differs wildly from the plain meaning of them, the most charitable conclusion I can offer you is that you didn't read my words in the first place.

The less-charitable but perhaps more accurate conclusion is that you're deliberately misrepresenting my words in bad faith.

For any kind of charter system to work, they would need to limit the number of charters a city would have available. That's just a fact of the matter. Otherwise, every city would try to sign up everyone they could. Now, granted, in your interpretation, it is the Guild/Group that is limited on how many they can accept, and that would create some competition for charters, with the Cities trying to sign the biggest and most prolific guilds out there before anyone else fills up their quota. Again, ,Solo'ists would become an afterthought. They would get the few remaining places, maybe, but would have a hard time to compete.That is if they can even get a response in from the city Governors so focused on landing the big guilds.

The bold, italicized text is crucial. I'm delighted after many days' worth of exchanges, you finally decided to acknowledge the plain reading of mine and @Bardikens' words. It's about damn time, frankly.

He proposed and I endorsed a cap for city charters to merchants so merchants/groups of merchants/merchant empires would be effectively unable to monopolize continental economies and foster competition. Cities themselves may indeed need to be capped as well, but merchant caps and city caps needn't be the same.

You could create a system that allows cities to offer more charters to merchants than individual merchant entities (e.g. solo merchants, small merchant groups, sprawling merchant empires) can themselves accept. A system where, hypothetically and for easy numbers, cities can offer up to 15 separate charters but each merchant entity may only accept 5 charters total.

This could indeed create a system where cities have room to offer merchant players their own charters without necessarily forgoing more lucrative relationships with other, bigger merchant groups, because they'd have plenty of charter room to share. And the fact that merchants of any size would be limited in the number of charters they can accept means that those entities would be unable to compete for every city's patronage.

The big thing is, this system still would incentivize Guilds. Big Guilds become so much more attractive for Cities to sign charters with. Solo'ists become afterthoughts. Sure, they can sign as many solo'ists as they want, but it really won't help them compete in that kind of market.

Those big guilds would be limited in the number of charters they could accept for cities. Meaning even if many cities sought charters with those big guilds, those big guilds would be limited in what they could accept and thus cities would have to look elsewhere to grant charters.

Solo players will never have the appeal of big guilds in any context in any sandbox MMO. But this system certainly won't make that lack of appeal worse..

@GamerSeuss said in Markets and Merchant Guilds - A Reimagining of the Current System:

@Alexian said in Markets and Merchant Guilds - A Reimagining of the Current System:

And such players could be eligible for a city charter as well.

Mayhaps eligible for one, but hardly likely to be offered one. It was talked about limiting the number of charters that a town can have. With that being the case (and it pretty much would have to be for the system to work) any town would be insane to offer charters to solo'ists over groups. Groups give them several merchants to partner with for only 1 charter slot, as opposed to a 1 for 1 exchange with a solo'ist. This, thus, incentivizes Guilds/Groups over Solo'ists again, over and above the natural advantages they already have.

You say below you always read every post before commenting on it... and yet...

The only limits/caps that have been suggested have been for merchant guilds/companies, not cities.

Read it again. Carefully.

Additional perks/systems that favor Guilds are not needed. What would work better is to come up with a couple perks that would favor the Solo'ist. I, however, can already hear the outcry if the Merchant Charters were only made available to Solo'ists, and not to Guilds.

Governors of cities would have the discretion to award charters to whomever they please. A skilled solo merchant, a small group of merchants, a sprawling commercial empire? Charters to each? Up to the Governor.

[Edit]I always read every word of a post before commenting on it. You never know if there might be a kernel of worth in even the worst posts, or a phrase that invalidates some good idea, so you have to take them in, in their entirety.

Evidently not.

@GamerSeuss said in Markets and Merchant Guilds - A Reimagining of the Current System:

@Alexian But Solo'ists should NOT be at a comparative disadvantage. The only disadvantages they should get are those that naturally come from grouping over solo'ing. Solo'ists can't take on the larger mobs, Guilds/Groups can. Solo'ists have no-one watching their backs, Guilds/Groups do. You do not need, and really shouldn't add any extra advantages for Guilds/Groups that widen that already reasonable gap.

Those are indeed the advantages to which I refer. Have you considered reading mine and @Bardikens' posts in their entirety before responding?

Merchants, if anything, is a niche that I think should be mostly filled with Solo'ists. It won't be, but that's the fact of the matter. Solo'ists could come together to form caravans for long treks and safety in numbers, and hire guards, but each merchant should for the most part be a free agent, going where the whims of trade take them.

And such players could be eligible for a city charter as well.

@GamerSeuss said in Markets and Merchant Guilds - A Reimagining of the Current System:

Also, one thing the Devs said they definitely don't want to do, is allow players to bypass the exploration aspect of the game. Even if you want to primarily be a merchant or a city builder, they want you to have to go out and explore, killing some mobs, and gathering some resources, if for nothing else but to fill up your knowledge points. This means they aren't going to want to put in a system that generally allows a player to bypass exploration, especially when they are already having a hard time coming up with End-Game content to keep everyone interested.

At this point, my suspicion is you're not actually reading my posts, since yours address strawmen. Nowhere in this thread or in any other have @Bardikens or I advocated for system mechanics that would discourage, let alone prevent, merchant-minded players from engaging in gameplay exploration.

The only thing Bardikens' proposed system would do is incentivize and reward a gameplay niche for those players who want to spend more time merchanting and directly engaging in economic activities than in other gameplay aspects; this would not allow players to bypass exploration.

I am definitely with @spoletta in that I think we should see how the current system works before we try to fix it. I'm not a huge fan of the Global Wallet, and I'm not 100% on searching other markets (although I would chalk that up to hanging at a marketplace and listening to the merchants gossip about where they've been kinda information from a RP standpoint)

Then revisit this thread after the test?

As to the concept of "if you don't want to participate in community stuff, go play a non-MMO/singleplayer game...that's not the point at all. There's a reason solo'ists want to play in MMOs, and it is not just to complain about Guildies. MMOs were always meant for both types of players. Players want the real world possibility of running into a friend in game. They want the chance, on rare occasions to go on a big raid, or group up, but don't want to be locked into having to do it. There is a difference. CHOICE. I've been playing MMOs since they came out too, and MUDs, MUCKs, MUSHes, and MOOs before that. The games have Multiplayer in their title because of the possibility, not the mandate that you should play in groups and join guilds. Guilds are an option. Some want it, some don't, but the Devs have said they want to try to level the playing field between Solos and Guilders all along.

This is yet another strawman. I said that solo players should be at a comparative disadvantage to communities in an MMO, not that they should be barred from solo play if that's what they choose.

Systems should be created that incentivize and reward communities, be it small groups, guilds, or sprawling empires. To what extent a solo player wishes to engage with these variously scaled communities is entirely up to them, but they may very well (and indeed should) find that total disengagement results in certain inconveniences and disadvantages.

@spoletta said in Markets and Merchant Guilds - A Reimagining of the Current System:

No, during that test, there was very little trading actually happening.
Only minerals were being traded.
Minerals are only a small part of the intended trades, so that wasn't a working example.

I said "trade was comparatively quite active and vibrant"... which it was. The previous test had virtually no trade; the test before it, by comparison, had robust trade. This is a fact.

The additional fact that trade could/should have been even more robust does not change the fact that trade was discernibly better in the test before last than in the last test.

The actual reasons why trading didn't work in the previous test are multiple:

1. No one developed a market because they wanted the tech points of other techs. Now the marketplace is available by default.
2. Gold was mostly useless. Gold is now in high demand due to all the new gold sinks.
3. Cities were able to become almost self sufficient, and unlock all important techs. New tech tree prevents cities from having it all, they MUST trade to get all kinds of equip.
4. Enchants could not be traded. Now thanks to the imbuing system they can be traded.
5. Gems had no value except for rituals. Gems are now a really important resource.

I said "the foremost reason" trading didn't work during the previous test was because resource nodes were untethered from their regions, allowing anybody to come in and take them. You citing additional, perfectly valid reasons also doesn't change that fact.

As you can see, this test is aiming at removing all reasons for tradings not happening. It is very PVE/Crafting oriented.
I too do have many ideas on possible changes for the trading, but until I see how this set of rules shapes up, I'm keeping them for myself, since I know that I will necessarily miss something important.

Yes, this test is attempting to rectify the mistakes of the previous test which killed virtually all trading. I respect that and look forward to seeing how it works. However, I think @Bardikens was just throwing out a suggestion for long-term niche activity that would incentivize merchant players. Nothing wrong with that.

@spoletta The foremost reason that trading didn't work during the previous test (IMO) was because resources were untethered from cities/regions. This allowed guilds/players/cities to simply go out and collect the resources they desired without the need to trade or interact with other guilds/players/cities.

However, in the test before that, trade was comparatively quite active and vibrant despite the various bugs and primitive marketplaces because resource nodes were locked to specific cities/regions, systemically compelling people to trade with one another.

This generation of MMO gamer is relatively unsocial and min-maxy. If you give them the means to get the things they want completely independently, they will do so, even if it takes more time and effort.

@GamerSeuss I know @Bardikens responded to you at length and I don't wanna dogpile you, but I believe you misunderstood aspects of his proposal:

• Bardikens is an outspoken opponent of global markets and global wallets. The new mechanics that will be introduced in the Fall 2021 Alpha will allow users of local marketplaces to view wares on a global scale; Bardikens' proposal will dramatically reduce that feature by only allowing chartered merchant organizations to view wares on a higher scale... and even then, only in other markets where they share that charter.

• Solo players will still have the means and opportunity to avoid interacting with chartered merchant organizations if they wish. But they'll be [rightly] at certain disadvantages: they'll have to dedicate more effort of selling or purchasing their wares as well as accruing the risks of transportation.

• Fractured is a game that should allow solo players paths to success, but it doesn't (and shouldn't) "even the playing field" between a solo player and a community. A community should almost always have a decisive advantage over a solo player and the game should incentivize solo players to get at least peripherally involved with a community. If a solo player wants free reign of a game without challenges or comparative disadvantages, they should play a single player RPG instead of a massively-multiplayer one.

In preparation for the upcoming Fall 2021 Alpha test, @Bardikens has presented an intriguing proposal for niche players.

Check it out!

https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/14286/markets-and-merchant-guilds-a-reimagining-of-the-current-system/1

In preparation for the upcoming Fall 2021 Alpha test, @Bardikens has presented an intriguing proposal for niche players.

Check it out!

https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/14286/markets-and-merchant-guilds-a-reimagining-of-the-current-system/1