Friendly Fire
-
@specter Thanks, I think I got it.
Looks like a neutral player can indeed sneak upon a good player and hit first. So the good should be double cautious when he enters areas without alignment restriction. Or set himself to neutral while wandering there to avoid the aforementioned situation.
In mass fights good can spam AOE to hit evil. They won't hit good nor neutral (unless these are flagged). I don't think that's a huge advantage as @Gothix said because it's a double-edged blade. That hasn't been shown yet but there's probably a party's or team's mechanics so even evil or neutral wouldn't friend fire.
-
@jetah Sorry, but I have seen far too much of what people do to agree with you there. Where I like the freedoms, and where I like having some good PvP, people abuse anything they are able to abuse.
Let abusing happen, and the game dies really fast.
And, just in case you missed it, I'll repeat it once again. I don't have a big problem with having to think about skill use like that. I merely know that the consequence of good characters (for whom murder of their own unintentionally would be a big alignment hit most likely) would be people aiming to grief by jumping in the way of attacks to purposefully ruin their experience. That is NOT PvP in a way I can accept, and if that's the goal of anyone I hope they get the help they need from a professional.
-
@jairone said in Friendly Fire:
Let abusing happen, and the game dies really fast.
This is the main issue when it comes to game balance. I don't envy developers, they are trying to appeal to all audiences, from hardcore PVPers to only PVEers. Its the gray area between the two thats covered in sticky juice. As a semi-hardcore PVPer, good is becoming much more attractive from a PVP stand point.
If dodging and mobility are apart of this arpg, then AoE is extremely important. If it were tab targeted or tab locked, then it might not be such a big deal but in fractured (in theory) it seems like the system maybe broken. By allowing ranged good characters to shoot away without fear of harming allies is huge, especially in mass/world PvP. It limits evil in all sorts of ways and makes them implement strategies not required by good characters. Rules seem as though they should be planets aligned.
Arboreus should be no FF for all alignments
Syndesia and Tartaros should be FF for all alignmentsAlthough at this point I plan on playing human (until Alpha begins), I still want a fair and balanced game where there is an equal distribution of players. Currently I see everyone, including demons on Arboreus for end game. We do not want demons, human or beastmen... good, neutral of evil to have a advantage or disadvantage...
If an inequality exist, over time, people will migrate to the advantage... its human nature (no pun intended). If we want fractured to last and be successful all alignments should be equal. Perhaps no FF for any alignment or FF for all alignment? Equality is balance.
Oh and player can still accidentally knock other players out without a change in karma... this is known as a oppsie.
If you loot and/or said target then you have committed an evil act. So if FF was enabled for good, you could still hurt other good players or even party members as in the video in the beginning of this thread. That does not affect your karma or alignment. So if someone jumps in front of you intentionally, they are simply being dumb. They cant trick you into being a thief or a killer, that would be your choice. Your alignment is not affected by FF. But killing and stealing definitely will.
-
@Tsoo Aye, if there's no alignment hit it won't be so bad. There will likely still be some abuses if they use a path based friendly fire, but I can deal with that at that point.
I agree with making each group as equal as possible in these regards. I just had a huge concern with that (and still do, did you have a source that such accidents won't be ruining the work of people to maintain a good alignment beyond that video?)
I can think of at least a few reasons why no alignment loss would apply while having the friendly fire, from being neutral to not downing to party and beyond. I'd be happy to accept anything concrete, but there is too much speculation with the video to be accepted as such a solid answer.
-
Frindly fire will make a real hell every large PvP events, since allied people will often kill each other. Think about the life of melee where in large battles the frontlines of both side get bombarded no-stop by the backline: a real nightmere.
Also consider how people will lose Karma just because they kill another Good aligned one by accident during a massive clash because they just walk by when an offensive spell is fired or a bunch of arrows are flying around.It may be active during "every day" situations, but when an Eclipse will start probably it should be disabled for its duration.
-
@lightspoon said in Friendly Fire:
a real nightmare.
Hum... it was like that in medieval battle (and WWI & II ) Soldier had a short life.. that's why i always preferred to be a mage ^^
-
@tsoo said in Friendly Fire:
Currently I see everyone, including demons on Arboreus for end game.
I agree with everything but this. As far as I can see, acquiring wealth is the closest thing to an end game we have. With resources generally being localized to certain areas of certain planets, from a pure economic perspective, I don't see people abandoning Tartaros or Syndesia unless a handful of huge guilds monopolize all the resources and conflict between these guilds have ceased. But even then, the more people on one planet and the more saturated the market gets with those planet's resources, the harder it will be to sustain a sufficient income to buy necessary resources from other planets. If the economy is designed well enough, there should never be a huge population discrepancy between planets.
-
@gofrit indeed you're right (and I too prefer to be ranged), but from a gameplay prospective it's not so entertaining to know that every big battle will be a total massacre for you, if you choose to be a melee. Not so fun to be just a part of the "meat wall".
-
@lightspoon said in Friendly Fire:
Also consider how people will lose Karma just because they kill another Good aligned one by accident during a massive clash because they just walk by when an offensive spell is fired or a bunch of arrows are flying around.
This....
Perhaps enabling friendly fire even on Arboreus might be the solution. If its enabled BUT good players have FF disabled vs good knocked out opponents... No accidentally killing, no accidental karma change, for large PvP battles still seems fair, still good vs good griefing but nothings perfect...
Simply disable good vs knocked out/unconscious good friendly fire.
-
@tsoo you don't kill people by accident. You only incapacitate them - to kill them you have to walk to the body and do kill action
Not sure about karma loss from just KOing a good player - there is temporary status that let good players attack you but not sure if there is any karma loss.
-
@jairone said in Friendly Fire:
@jetah Sorry, but I have seen far too much of what people do to agree with you there. Where I like the freedoms, and where I like having some good PvP, people abuse anything they are able to abuse.
Let abusing happen, and the game dies really fast.
And, just in case you missed it, I'll repeat it once again. I don't have a big problem with having to think about skill use like that. I merely know that the consequence of good characters (for whom murder of their own unintentionally would be a big alignment hit most likely) would be people aiming to grief by jumping in the way of attacks to purposefully ruin their experience. That is NOT PvP in a way I can accept, and if that's the goal of anyone I hope they get the help they need from a professional.
Eve Online is a sandbox game I know of and they allow scams, pvp, deaths, spying, sabotage, etc to exist without any protection. even in safe space, where the npc police will spawn on you, you can still shoot people. that game isn't dead.
I'll say again, that a sandbox game shouldn't protect people outside of the intended game mechanics. I'll say again I would have had friendly fire on all 3 planets and it would be up to the user to use AoE or not but I'm not developing it. Right now 1 planet doesn't have FF at all and the other 2 it can happen. If you are in an area then you should group up because that's the only, current, game mechanic protecting you from AoE FF. Which I don't agree with but it exist so I accept it.
-
@jetah Supposedly almost all skills are skill shots, so it's not just AoE that has to be considered for friendly fire, it's every offensive skill.
-
@target
why would you attack something knowing someone will jump in the way? if you don't want FF then stay on the beast planet.
-
@jetah I was addressing this:
ll say again I would have had friendly fire on all 3 planets and it would be up to the user to use AoE or not
-
I am going to be such a bad boy probably end up burning a hole in my pants
-
@jetah said in Friendly Fire:
Eve Online is a sandbox game
With a population that plays some 90% in high-sec. Where having those issues (outside scams) isn't really a concern for much of anything. Attacks in high-sec that are actually a threat are extremely rare, because it takes enough grinding to make it a pain in the butt.
Guess what, intended game mechanics is something I am talking about. Because right now shots seem to travel in a line, and there seems to be some collision, all of which means a random person can maliciously force themselves into distanced attacks that have AOE to harm people in a way that is completely against the intended game mechanics (unless the game mechanics are intended to be 'go be a completely PvP unflagged person who tries to get people flagged for murder) with good (and neutral to an extent) alignments.
I'm saying that needs to be a noted thing for the devs, and THEN they can remove the friendly fire protection on good. Because I really do think it is unfair, but simply removing it opens up the game to push everyone good to say either "Okay, Arboreus it is and forget Sydensia" or "Bad game, griefing alignment is normal."
-
its seem ok to me right now, good can't do FF in beast and human worlds, only in demon the FF is on.
-
@grofire said in Friendly Fire:
its seem ok to me right now, good can't do FF in beast and human worlds, only in demon the FF is on.
That puts demons at huge disadvantage on both beast and human worlds.
Imo, rules should be equal for all and FF should be tied to a planet and not to alignment.
So Arboreus - FF off for every alignment
Tartaros - FF on for every alignment
Syndesia - FF either ON or OFF - but equally for every alignment
-
@gothix. I do not mind demon get disadvantage... I do not think things should be equal for all.
-
I am glad that there will be no FF for good aligned players.
Thanks for the quote of the spotlight information, Specter.
