Pulling the rug out from under new mage players.
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I understand the concerns of naked griefers and mid-end game pvp.
But if you want to combat the naked griefer issue then just make mana directly connected to equipment and not stats. Give mage equipment, like, 200 mana per item, leather 100, chain 50, plate 25... or something. That way a naked player has no mana to cast spells with and is not an issue.But this patch forgot about the players who click on the mage starter package and join in the game.
Before, the experience of starting a new mage lived up to the warning on the tin "medium". It was not easy to kill mobs and an errant ice spike might get the attention of two or three baby black widows and you would get knocked down, ok. Moving on to the goblin camp it was again hard, but not impossible to take on one goblin and maybe a wolf.This is no longer the case.
And when comparing the struggles of playing a mage at start with playing a melee? It is obscene.
I am building a larger argument and comparison to illustrate how this patch caused more harm than it could have possibly alleviated in the realm of low to mid pvp and pve which is where all players get their first experiences and impressions of the game, not late game with full city tech, numerous unlocked abilities, 40+ talent points, and enchants.
The bottom line was gutted.
This is my opinion from personal experience trying a new mage in solo pve content, and from having a T3 kitted mage with T2 enchants and numerous talent points.
I admit that I may be in the minority... but believe that it is not the case.
I personally see no point in playing a mage when we are simply easy targets for any melee pvp player and emaciated pve farmers. We cant even jump down a cliff to run away.
I will go to melee until a patch comes to remedy the situation.
I have faith, for now, that the developers will correct this. I just hope it does not continue into the next alpha.
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I think the intention to change mages wasn‘t just the naked griefers stuff, but that many people complained, that mages was too strong.
I think we will need still much much tweaking, before we get anything, that can be called balance.I see another concern at the moment. You will need for summoning Legends with the materials that is needed for the only mage weapons we have at the moment. I see a very big problem in this, since Mages don‘t have any chance to get another valid weapon.
Btw. this thread would have a better place at the Alpha-Feedback forum @OlivePit
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I actually feel like im in the same boat as Olive. Didn't get much play time this week due to RL. Read patch notes to find mages get nerfed. No biggie lets go see. First thing I notice, I cant no longer relocate up rock walls. Main reason I farmed that skill. Huge bummer. Was looking forward to not having to try to find the opening anymore. Plus fun chances of running from PK'ers.
Secondly I am so weak now that I cant even farm zombies. They seem out regen my damage. Yes I am still wearing super noob gear, but I cant even farm money atm to start buying/building a home to make any crafting stations if I wished to.
So yeah I feel a little hamstringed atm. Really don't want to reroll a melee just to play. Will wait and see if things get changed anymore this weekend. BBL.
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The nerf was to much in my opionion he is nearly not worth playing anymore...
As mainly skilled on mage attributes i can say this:
My Dmg with 80% Spell DMG are now only 30% over my dmg with my autoattacks so not think about what that means at a starter mage ....
Second: since that patch i cant understand the dmg calculation because its random lol,
example: making a firebolt shot with 20 INT x 8 means i should make 160 x 80% dmg on a wolf (0% Resist on Fire) right?
so i shot 3 firebolts and get: 186, 216,258 so please how is that possible when not compleatly broken?
And i have 0% crit chance so also that cant be crits
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I see these changes as the first part of a series of changes.
First there was a need to make mages depend on equip like archers and warriors do.Then the second layer of changes must regard talents.
Currently, warriors scale a lot from talents, while mages don't. Now that the equipment side of the equation has been normalized, we can normalize also the talent one.By the way, if instead of poison the mages started with mage armor, the first hours of play would be much much easier.
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@OlivePit we are aware that the early game for mages is painful now. The selection of starter spells isn't great, as @spoletta mentioned, the power level of goblins is too high, and players who start in the Eastern village don't even have a proper post-tutorial zone (the 3rd goblin area is missing, so they end up going to the Vale, which is a mid/high level zone).
We're going to do further rebalancing on mages, but the issue here has many facets.. and rest assured that they're all going to be addressed before the start of the next test!
@Ignator said in Pulling the rug out from under new mage players.:
so i shot 3 firebolts and get: 186, 216,258 so please how is that possible when not compleatly broken?
All damages you deal in Fractured (be it from basic attacks or from spells) are applied a +/-25% random factor - so if your Firebolt deals 200 damage, that's actually 150-250.
Notice that the random roll (like all dice rolls in the game) is influenced by your Luck. High Luck doesn't change the range of the random, but makes it more likely to hit higher numbers
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@Prometheus This should be described somewhere in-game (like, in the character creation menu)... as so, so many players don't know what luck does. I only know what it does personally, because I have done testing with luck in every test. The majority of people only see it as a 'dump' stat, because animal taming isn't implemented and neither is 2/3 of the charisma talent tree.
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I wanted to reroll a mage to go healing, I'll probably stick to my primitive useless warrior!
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That primitive warrior has access to inspire -aoe heal and buff- which mages do not (unless they are unarmed), you even have access to all of the heals available in game. as such warriors are better at healing and support than mages... and do more damage... and have better armor and resists... and do not have to switch out their entire build to go pve mob hunting targeting the mobs specific weaknesses... and have more and better armor/weapon material options...
What is the point of playing a light armor int based caster again?
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@Prometheus
Thank you for claryfication. So i guess the Luck Factor was implemented with the last patch because before it was dmg like i described. Maybe next time you can put such things into the patch log? That would be great and helps to understand whats going on.I also thinking like you the overall balance of the classes need really some work...
Light Armor / Staff Mages are this time behind the other Loadouts.
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@OlivePit personally I think that I would like more a game with roles better defined.
A warrior hits you in the face.
A healer heals you.
An assassinate strikes you in the back.
I've played a lot of Guild Wars 2, and while I find it a really good game, the idea of the destruction of the old trinity has started to feed me up a little.
I mean, I already play a Healer Warrior in GW2, which makes no sense, healing by shouting, like motivators in a gym!
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@Prometheus said in Pulling the rug out from under new mage players.:
Все повреждения, которые вы наносите в Fractured (будь то базовые атаки или заклинания), применяются со случайным коэффициентом +/- 25% - так что если ваш Firebolt наносит 200 повреждений, это на самом деле 150-250.
it doesn't work on magic spells. checked.
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@Molodtsov I checked too and it works, at least, I think it works
@OlivePit atm, a new mage player can use staff + leather armour and can solo all goblins including chief and fire shaman(I did). If you want to use your spells, the best option is the poison spell, you cast it and kite the enemy.
@Prometheus I think mages should start with one CC/spell, slow/cripple would be a good option. It's would be in line with the changes in the staff.
My big concern is not for the new mages, it's for the mages with a big amount of KPs. The good spells are really expensive (memory points), so you are really limited to make a strong build and you cant memorize extra spells to switch them. Melee fighters don't have this problem 'cause most of them abilities are 2 memory points and, a few, 4 memory points.
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@yneternum
Yes, since my post they made goblins weaker so that new mages had a chance to kill them, before that they did not have a chance.
The major ballancing factor for high KP players was supposed to be that each ability had 4 tiers of effect/damage which could only be unlocked through achieving challenges. This system is not implemented and as such the ability a mage starts with is the same ability that a max kp and kitted mage has. Nerfing all the abilities hurt all the different stages of game play, not just the top end. As such I and others consider it a poorly designed nerf.
The evidence that the player base dropped and has remained really low is evidence of the truth in this statement.
High level mages were not so effected because they had the skills and gear to deal with it, newer mages did not and were given a nerf to goblin hills as a half assed apology ... but that nerf also made it much easier for all players to farm goblin hills, not just mages, as such the inequality between mages and melee still exists.
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The nerf was mostly in terms of movement speed.
It benefited archers and mages, which are the 2 classes which had problems at the start.
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see https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/13960/luck-relationship-to-damage-ranges-and-crit-chance it is tested with luck char and the result was luck seems not having a influence of it.
i also think that the solution cant be to change it for all classes because it dont change the root cause.
Goblins wasnt a problem before the mage changes and never was for melee.
The gap between the different "classes"still there and will be also if you nerf all creatures in fracturedSo a solution can be the change in the starting skill set like others mentioned in this thread.
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@Prometheus said
All damages you deal in Fractured (be it from basic attacks or from spells) are applied a +/-25% random factor - so if your Firebolt deals 200 damage, that's actually 150-250.
Notice that the random roll (like all dice rolls in the game) is influenced by your Luck. High Luck doesn't change the range of the random, but makes it more likely to hit higher numbers
This is great info. My warrior, who can't learn many skills that work with her medium armor so mostly just bashes things, just learned a skill from the Mountain Trolls that she can actually use with her armor! Relentless Style toggles on to hit the high end of this range habitually
(if, indeed it works as it should. I'll need @Kralith to test that for me and report
).
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That skill works wonders, and is one of our best tools to test damage bonuses since it removes the random results.
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@Ignator unfortunately, the post doesnt describe the test performed, I mean the stats of each char, the damage output,... so I'm not trust on his conclussions
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yeah starting mage skills are either weak or really really hard to use without messing up in some way. The shotgun ice spike + spam minor heal playstyle is really the strongest but doesn't play like a mage at all. I think they should be changed to the following to be much easier and suit the mage playstyle and theme better:
firebolt -> shocking lash
ice spikes -> fireball
poison -> tectonic outburst
minor healing -> word of power: healingmind you, fractured progression should be horizontal so don't tell me this is "too powerful" because the answer would be to nerf the abilities themselves.
