City Management Feedback Thread
-
You guys summed it up pretty well mostly. I think the essentials like the marketplace shouldn't be locked behind the research wall. And we need way more roles to give rights to citizens AND different residents (like trusted residents, new ones, you get it). I'm all for free usable crafting stations for all (externals with a small tax maybe) but we need to have control over the storages of buildings and smelters (maybe let the citizens and residents "rent" smelters for like 5 hours, if the goods aren't taken out in that time it goes into the city). That would also counter that really ugly industrial area in the residenatl plots.
Furthermore we need some sort of mark who is resident in our town, we have no clue who belongs to us and that becomes really difficult if some are red flagged (and it's just bad in general and in social life for the city)
-
@Kazzier Yeah i think the player market would make things easier for everyone.
Market is earliest to activate at Rank 5, when the Hamlet becomes a village.
You get for each rank 2 research point for rank1-5 and 1 research point for all other ranks.
Most problem of the first towns was, that we didn't know about that and spend our points just to see, that we just get one per rank after raising to a village, that means we "wasted" too much points in reason of not knowing about. When we noticed it was literally "too late" and we had to think, how we spend our points now.
People was demanding like "I want the advanced smelter", "We need Armor&Weapons", "I want to make my steel stuff. (aka T4)" and we governors just knew, we don't have enough points to fullfill all the needs. That is the main reason most towns didn't unlocked the marketplace, since they simply had not enough points or don't wanted decide against the needs of the people.Look the tree and keep in mind from Rank 1-5 you didn't know about next one just gives 1 instead of 2. We are at 17 points for Rank 12 Town. You need to spend 1 point per Research for Hamlet&Village Tech and 2 Points for Town Tech.
We unlocked this way:
T2 -> T3 -> T4 Materials
Tailoring -> Leatherworking
Magic Shop -> Enchantement Table
Town Bank
Carpentry -> Architecture -> Palisades + Townresearch Prison
Blacksmithing -> Advanced Smelting, Plate Armor, Advanced WeaponsMaybe we should have left out Town Bank and taking instead Marketplace, but well, you can't "respec" the Tech-Tree, if you think you chosed wrong.
-
@Harleyyelrah
I think that what Kazzier is saying is that a marketplace would be a significant draw for them, and potentially other players, to become residents of a city.
As such having a marketplace would be one way to advertise how cool your city is and encourage others to join thus allowing you to rank up sooner and get new points.
If a city does not choose a market place they are kinda saying they do not care about the larger more casual player base and their interests. And that is their choice. But if a neighboring city puts in a market place and draws your residents to them and you rank down as a result, know that is a consequence inherent in the system and one that your city decided was worth while in exchange for XYZ.
-
@OlivePit Marketplaces would not be limited to residents only. Marketplaces are like the banks, where anyone passing through the city can use them, or at least they were in the last test. And marketplaces being linked also has to be researched. So a lone city researching a marketplace actually hurts themselves by using the point for that rather than something like leatherworking. Just using that as an example. Neighboring people would be able to go to that marketplace to use it, but then they would want to reside elsewhere that has the crafting researched for their own progression.
Mind you, I'm not saying that nobody should research marketplaces, and it does make sense that cities can't unlock everything at once, but the way it's currently set up, marketplaces would not be a big priority for cities to unlock. Maybe something needs to be tweaked there.
-
@Harleyyelrah
Good point... perhaps make it so only residents/citizens can put things up for sale?
-
Or just make it so that the Market Place does not take any Research points at all. Which is shouldn't
-
Not everyone can access banks currently though. Not sure if that's intended or not, but I definitely can't use other city's banks.
I am fine with the ranking up system as it is currently ( requiring residents ), but I definitely feel like residential plots are just way too overpowered, especially ones that are right next to the city. My plot is closest to the city, I can walk from the city to my plot without every stepping in an unsafe zone.
So imagine if someone took over the city, I can still harass them easily since I have a safe place right next to the city, and can build everything I need on my plot. Like people mentioned, you can build way too much on your residential plot, I think it should be restricted in terms of number of crafting stations/processing stations. For example, 2 processing stations and 1 crafting station per residential plot.
Cities definitely need more in depth permission systems on their processing stations. Current permission system isnt robust enough. I like the current permission system on the crafting stations, and that can stay, residents/casuals/solos will definitely choose to buy a residential plot in a city which lets them use their craftin stations, so there will definitely be quite a number of cities that will allow people to use their crafting stations.
The other problem is that the difference in quality is way too miniscule, so it almost makes no difference right now to craft items on your own plot rather than the city.
The key point though, is that the residential plots closest to the city should be reserved to citizens only, and are lost whenever a city is taken over. City space is already small, I think we can just remove the option to build a personal plot in the city, considering city space is already limited, and residential plots are OP, and with my proposed changes, you would want to buy a residential plot in your citizen reserved plots because of it's closeness to the city( with risk ), or buy a residential plot further away( without risk )
-
@Ostaff
If you make it free then it has no value. Currently it clearly has value as people want it and are talking about it. The issue is that those in control of the buildings and tech choices dont listen or care.
If neighboring cities communicated and worked together to assist each other then the situation would be different. As is each city is afraid of not having total control of a thing and that fear pushes them toward self sufficiency while ignoring interdependent commerce and negotiation options.
The governors need to stop being afraid and talk amongst each other. This is a problem they created and only they can solve.
If the groups had negotiated trade deals between each other before the alpha began then there could have been diversified cities and more profit for the entire population. This was the responsibility of the governors and guild leaders.
Case in point is the alliance of cities and guilds in the south.Fear caused this stagnation.
The ability to respec the city tech tree would greatly aid in this alpha testing process. @Prometheus
-
The reason it should be free is for the sole purpose that the devs want "trading between cities", if that is what they want.. then it needs to be free. If that is not what they want.. then they can feel free to put whatever cost they want on it.
Personally, I would have the market place be free and then a tech option could be added that increases the efficiency of the market so that the city receives more money from each sale. That way you do not restrict the players from selling their gear and it benefits the city to actually invest research points into it.
As it stands, there really isn't much reason to add it except as an add-on cause you have nothing left to spend the points on (if we ever get that far)
-
I read a few posts, but alot of them are so long, lol, I don't feel like reading all of the rest thoroughly, so I don't know if this has been posted already or not.
Some of the residents (non-citizens) of the city i govern, Duath, have actually been asking if there is any way for them to help out the city itself, even though they aren't a citizen. The biggest thing I have been asked several times is about helping with the city food upkeep, which they simply can't do, EVEN IF THEY WANT TO!!
Why is this limited to only citizens? What benefit does the game have from only citizens being able to help maintain the town? Why are only Governors and Vice-Governors able to put gold into the treasurey? sure, they should be the only ones capable of taking it out... but putting it in? Maybe allow residents to acces the upkeep tab and add a little 'Donation' button at the bottom? Then, both residents and citizens alike, can donate gold to the treasurey, without seeing how much is in it! Residents will also be able to feel like they are contributing at least a little, to the tech they are currently freely leaching off of (other than the 1k gold per week from residency plot costs)
-
Some topics to consider:
- The number of citizens to level up the city only allow big guilds to reach the highest levels(at least, in the current alpha).
- People who build the house outside of the city are totally safe and don't risk anything, so people don't construct houses inside.
- The city is really small to construct all the buildings and houses.
Some ideas to fix the former topics:
- The citizens who build their houses inside of the city give more residents to the city or as big the house is, bigger is the resident number.
- Increase the size of the city.
-
@yneternum said in City Management Feedback Thread:
Some topics to consider:
- The number of citizens to level up the city only allow big guilds to reach the highest levels(at least, in the current alpha).
- People who build the house outside of the city are totally safe and don't risk anything, so people don't construct houses inside.
Neither of these points are true.
A group of small guilds that are willing to work together can very easily maintain a city. You don't HAVE to be part of a large guild. Duath for example (the city I am currently Governor of), is run by a collection of 3 guilds; The Moonshadow Dryads, Legends of our Time, and KAOS. With enough pre-planning and team effort, even a bunch of small guilds can achieve many things together! Also, citizens have ZERO impact on the ranks of a city. You can probably have nothing but a governor, after a city is claimed, and still have the city standing after 2 weeks. The only thing rank depends on now, is the number of residents, living OUTSIDE the city.
Building a house inside the city is much cheaper. Players that don't wish to gather gold all the time, will build a house inside the city if one is available. They also have 0 tax to worry about, instead of the 1k gold per week. I made about 10 plots inside the town I am governing and ALL of them are taken.
-
I believe that most of these issues would be solved by giving governors more tools to govern their city. We all want to open the crafting stations to more people but by doing this we lose control of the warehouses. Anyone can enter the city and take any ore, wood, stone, material they would like, so we shut down the city (citizens + residents only). People have their own smelters at their own plot because 1st they don't want to start smelting their Copper, come back 4h later and discover someone else took it. 2nd normally all the smelters are already full with someone else ores and you just have to wait. If you are a casual player will you come 4 in 4h just to see if you were able to be the first one there and finally be able to smelt your 5 copper ores? There should be the possibility of having professions. Citizens dedicated to take care of the Blacksmith, for example, that would take the requests from citizens and residents and manage the smelters and storage of the Blackmith. This can be done at city level by governors, but then they would need a way to set up these permissions.
The governors definitely need a way to communicate with their citizens/residents and know who their residents are. Going with the treasury log does not help as it does not register any resident that may have abandoned their plot. So a city chat or board is definitely needed, and I also liked the idea someone gave in previous posts regarding a possible way to receive mail at the plot. This would assure governors to be able to contact everyone even if they are not online.
Regarding the marketplace the resources need to be more difficult to get. Lock them again by city or find a way like Kralith said (also in https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/13867/town-controlled-area-doesn-t-exist-how-will-that-work-in-future) to enable cities to defend their resources by knowing they are being attacked or stolen. Last Alpha test the trades began even before the Marketplace was built or before they had real buy requests behind. Each one of us had only one resource available so we needed each other. The discord Alpha-trade and the global chat were filled with trading requests of cities asking for a stone wagon in exchange of a coal wagon for example. Money was not the goal or the issue but the resources themselves. It was a lot of fun! Travelling was never an issue as traders would take their full wagon across the map just to trade it with the needed resource for the city. If we already did this back then why not going all the way now to get that resource for free?
Now as a player, let's imagine you are a tank and you need that Blood Iron Plate Armor. Two cities away from you there is a city that already unlocked Advanced Smeltery, Craftmanship and Plate Armor (total of 5 research points). Your city unlocked the Marketplace and (imagining it is not resident/citizen closed) someone put that Plate Armor for sell. Now how much gold would it cost considering you need to farm Iron, Copper and Coal? Let's imagine they sell it for 4k, would you prefer to buy it or just go live in that city where you can produce not only the armor, but the full set and you only need to farm the raw materials? This would also be an interesting poll to allow governors to decide how they want to invest the research points. No one wants to lose residents.
-
@Xzait
I think that if you had a market place you could put a infinate buy order for wheat or meat at 1 gold each. This would allow them to help the cities bottom line while not requiring a new permission system.I believe that what the southern alliance did was very much along the desires of the devs and should be fully embraced as the go to strategy. Well done ! If I were a wandering player I would defiantly want to be part of that alliance especially if all their cities had markets where I could trade for the things I cannot produce myself.
-
I also wanted to add that the Rank Up system needs to be tweaked for the fully released version of the game. During a very limited time alpha test session, being able to rank up quickly is of course best for testing, but on full release I don't think that Ranking Up past Rank 4 should be allowable during the initial safe period. The reason for this is because ranking up only takes the gold away, and does not take the food sacks out of the town hall storage, which makes it easier for a big group to just stockpile all the food during the "no upkeep" time and be able to rank up very high with only having to pay the gold cost, instead of having to deal with gold cost AND food cost. Again, I love that we can do this during the alpha test, but it may mean that ranking up becomes too easy when the game is fully released.
Personally I think that if a city chooses to rush ranking up, the cost should be greater, not less. It should also take away the proper amount of food sacks that are stored in the town hall just like it takes away the gold, so that those bigger groups that are rushing to rank up need to farm at least twice as many resources, for upkeep AND for ranking up. Would it be possible to have the system be like this?: At upkeep time, if a town has enough resources to pay the upkeep, they can choose to rank up, but if they are trying to rush ranking up more than one rank in one week it should be double the cost in terms of resources.
Of course, having ranking up be time-gated in a one month alpha session would be terrible, but I am talking about when release or when much longer tests happen.
-
I agree. any upgrade should immediately take the tiers grain/protein/veg upkeep, if not you are getting something for nothing and at the same time reducing the value of food stuffs which was supposed to be the major trading resource in game (the 'it will take two farming villages to feed one city' bit) but is a joke at the moment. Especially with the high fertility resource nodes.
-
@Harleyyelrah a very good point.
In previous test we could ony ranking up once a day, but we also had to care for upkeep each day.
The weekly upkeep is fine for me, but i think the ranking up should get restricted by one rank per day, as it was before.
If you restrict it this way, the upkeep sacks would also not be a problem anymore, if they wouldn't need to pay during upkeep. Since paying the Money for Ranking and paying the Sacks for Upkeep is separated.But i am agreeing, during alpha an theoretically upranking time gate wouldn't help in any kind.
-
I have some additional please to the Devs.
We governors are able to destroy Wagons and Carts who are standing inside a town, to be able to remove them, if they are in wrong place and block building.
But i would like it, if we would also get the possibility to move them around, like other movable stuctures. Because of i don't like to destroy them always, somtimes i just want to be nice enough just to move them.
-
Agreeing with Kralith here.
There were 5 carts that I knew were full of ore but not shared and I had to deleet them as the players stopped playing and I needed the space for a building : /Giving us the option to turn on pvp in the town if just so we could 'steal' the carts to a new location would also be great for helping reduce clutter and what not.
-
@Dreamcraftwd said in City Management Feedback Thread:
We all want to open the crafting stations to more people but by doing this we lose control of the warehouses. Anyone can enter the city and take any ore, wood, stone, material they would like, so we shut down the city (citizens + residents only).
Could you elaborate more on this? I've just tested in game with stockpiles, smelteries, etc, and it seems they're working as intended - that is, they are usable by citizens only. The options "Everyone" and "Citizens + Residents" only apply to crafting stations with "instant crafting" (e.g. Tailoring Bench, Forge...) as explained by the (?) tooltip next to the setting.
@Kralith did you experience anything different?
