Spell Tomes/Books?
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Has there been any talk about the idea of adapting the ability system into a physical item?
For instance, instead of just adding an entry to your beastiary and unlocking it through knowledge points, what about abilities being dropped by mobs in tome or book form?
Unlocking the book or tome would require the same amount of knowledge points. This would update your beastiary.
As a byproduct of this change, you'd be introducing these items to the economy, allowing all players to unlock an ability if they are willing to pay the cost. However, the cost of upgrading that ability wouldn't change, so while solo and small group players could get the ability, even if they couldn't complete the content (boss mob), they may still not be able to upgrade the ability due to difficulty or lack of support.
Maybe a book being dropped by a bear doesn't make sense. But perhaps a new system could be introduced where players could create such tomes/books and sell them.
Inscription?
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@d3Sync - I think that's pretty much what the Legend drops are, innit? Parts of Lore books that give kp when opened?
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@PeachMcD said in Spell Tomes/Books?:
@d3Sync - I think that's pretty much what the Legend drops are, innit? Parts of Lore books that give kp when opened?
Yes. I wasn't talking about only just the legends.
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It goes back to the philosophy of only having creatures drop items that make sense for that creature. Bears and Wolves and Giant Spiders would not be carrying around spell books unless they were of the Boss/Legend variety where a treasure trove might be expected.
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@d3Sync One could become a broker of knowledge. You could play the Merovingian, start taking in in a really sweet French accent about Causality. I like it!
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I kind of like the fact that you have to go into the world to acquire abilities. It encourages people to adventure and explore.
That said, if they added a few abilities which were in books, dropped by enemies, that wouldn't be bad. But they would have to be super super rare.
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@GamerSeuss said in Spell Tomes/Books?:
It goes back to the philosophy of only having creatures drop items that make sense for that creature. Bears and Wolves and Giant Spiders would not be carrying around spell books unless they were of the Boss/Legend variety where a treasure trove might be expected.
Right..
Which is why I addressed this issue specifically in my original post with an alternative solution...
Also, Dynamite seems to be breaking that rule with knowledge point books and tomes already. As PeachMcD pointed out.
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@d3Sync said in Spell Tomes/Books?:
Also, Dynamite seems to be breaking that rule with knowledge point books and tomes already. As PeachMcD pointed out.
Except they are not breaking the rule...These kinds of drops are being found only on Legends, and as I said above, it makes more sense of a Boss/Legend type creature to drop that kind of loot.
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@GamerSeuss said in Spell Tomes/Books?:
@d3Sync said in Spell Tomes/Books?:
Also, Dynamite seems to be breaking that rule with knowledge point books and tomes already. As PeachMcD pointed out.
Except they are not breaking the rule...These kinds of drops are being found only on Legends, and as I said above, it makes more sense of a Boss/Legend type creature to drop that kind of loot.
I appreciate your opinion.
Do you know if this topic has been discussed in this past, and do you have an opinion on it?
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I remember there being talk about people wanting to play as Scribes, wanting to make books. I believe some people asked about creating skill books, but it was so long ago, I don't remember if anything came of the threads. I might have missed the end result too, not logging into the website often enough to keep getting notifications for everything.
If you search up 'Scribe' as a keyword, something might come up
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@d3Sync I believe I already stated my opinion, but if not, then here it goes:
I agree with the Developers keeping loot drops on creatures to things you would find/scavenge from/on their corpses. I also agree with the unlocks of skills and talents the way they are right now and don't want to see it changed to books that can be traded around. Right now, the game encourages exploration in order to unlock everything, and that is like the #1 goal of the Developers, getting people to explore, and if you make it so people can just buy the skill books from others instead of going out there and unlocking them for themselves, you take away from the most core of design philosophies to which I first signed onto the game to enjoy.
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@GamerSeuss said in Spell Tomes/Books?:
@d3Sync said in Spell Tomes/Books?:
Also, Dynamite seems to be breaking that rule with knowledge point books and tomes already. As PeachMcD pointed out.
Except they are not breaking the rule...These kinds of drops are being found only on Legends, and as I said above, it makes more sense of a Boss/Legend type creature to drop that kind of loot.
The Devs can break no rule, they simply alter existing ones or make new ones. To quote Mel Brooks 'Its good to be King".
I find the idea of using KP as a resource fascinating. They obviously have value. You would have to imagine that the price would high. If you wanted to be a stay at home scholar and have someone else get KP for you, where you get your monetary resources to afford them? It adds a whole new layer to the economy. You really could become a broker of knowledge.
I'm not saying that Fractured should do that or even that I necessarily want them to implement such a thing but it is cool to think about. @d3Sync Thanks for the cool idea!
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I disagree with the loot drops being specific to the creatures ability to possess the item. From a game mechanic system for me personally this makes hunting far less fun because it has always been about the item that may drop. It is like an Easter egg that needs to be found.
Those who have played D&D should know that loot in that game is not based upon what the creature may be carrying but what may be in that creatures lair.
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@Farlander I've played D&D for 43 years (as of like 2 weeks from now, started March 3rd, 1971, I know the exact day because it was my 7th Birthday) and yes, your right, the treasure of a creature is often based around what is found in their lair or on their kills, however, as later editions came out, with more and more concern for trying to be more realistic (but not completely, of course) the books started to separately list what could be found on a creature with what could be found in the same creature's lairs.
Most of the creatures we encounter in Fractured are 'out in the wild' and thus count more as Random Encounters, even if they are in known encounter zones for those kinds of creatures. Lair creatures would be the Legends and Bosses, and possibly chests or other types of lootables within certain specific home base settings. For instance, a Bear might spawn, and after you killed it, a search of the area might eventually lead you to a bear's cave, and in the cave is a pile of refuse and junk that when searched might contain more extensive 'treasures' than what you would find on the creatures themselves in the wild.
This is, again, if the Devs want to go through the details of putting lairs that are searchable sprinkled in the wild...or chests that periodically refill and become researchable in Tribal centers and old ruins. Otherwise, the name of the game, from the Devs' original concepts which many of us oldest investors decided to jump on board, was and still is the more realistic loot drop system, encouragement to explore being a #1 priority, and a Player driven economy.
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To me it goes back to the uniqueness of each planet having creatures with their own abilities. Making skills tradeable takes away from the exploration aspect of the game. I think it's cool that you're going to have to go on expeditions to different planets to maybe get a skill that is important to your build. It also seems to me that people aren't really considering that when you add shortcuts to a game it just benefits the large guilds 100x more than it will ever benefit you. Besides how is an information broker going to work, when you just sit in town all day not acquiring resources and just expecting people to provide these tomes to you, for free? Lol no.
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I think it could work.
Should it or shouldn't it be implemented? Not for me to say. But if you want to theory-craft...
All abilities would be trade-able. How? Inscription profession, maybe enchanting secondary?
If you've unlocked the ability, fully upgraded it, and gone far enough into the crafting perk tree, you can make spell scrolls.
Upon consuming such a scroll, your beastiary is updated with only the hidden spell. You can unlock it with the appropriate amount of KP. All upgrades to said spell must be accomplished by you, as it will only give you the base version. Thus, it will still require you to travel and discover the secrets of the creature involved.
That setup fixes the issue with removing the exploration factor of finding the spell yourself. You may not have to find it naturally, but upgrading the spell and learning the creatures secrets would force you to make the trip at a later time. It will give the option to people who aren't part of large groups to experience the base spells. I suspect that a lot of large guilds wouldn't be interested in giving their knowledge out, so the people who are willing to make money on their knowledge may be quite rare. Driving the cost of the spell scrolls up. And even more so if that spell is a boss mob spell. It will be an interesting addition to the player market.
I was under the impression that Dynamite markets this game as a PvP game, with PvE elements. That they want horizontal progression and they want to reduce the power gap as much as possible. It seems that this would ideally fit that mold. New profession. New items. More complex market. Bridge the power gap. Solo's get options. Guilds retain the power. It may also add to guild ranks, with guilds having more access to this profession, they could tie guild ranks to equipping their members with not only equipment, but knowledge as well.
What are the cons?
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@d3Sync
First this would fall into the category of scope creep. Adding new professions and features when the game isn't even out yet isn't going to be "all positives". Second the con is what you literally just said, "Removing the exploration factor of finding the spell yourself". You might disagree but not everyone wants the need to explore to be removed because 1 high level character already explored everything and is now selling skill books.
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@WaterMerchant said in Spell Tomes/Books?:
@d3Sync
First this would fall into the category of scope creep. Adding new professions and features when the game isn't even out yet isn't going to be "all positives". Second the con is what you literally just said, "Removing the exploration factor of finding the spell yourself". You might disagree but not everyone wants the need to explore to be removed because 1 high level character already explored everything and is now selling skill books.I never once implied that if it were to be implemented, that it needed to be done now.
I do recognize that something like this would affect exploration to a degree. But again, this would only offer you the ability to unlock the base spell. All upgrade requirements and monster secrets would still need to be unlocked to make it the most viable. The impact would be minimal.
I do think that the option of buying a spell may be beneficial to a lot of people. Also keep in mind that buying a spell has a monetary cost attached to it. That player would actually have to have gathered enough gold to make a purchase. And in addition, the spell would have to be available to be purchased. Since cost is player defined, I think it's likely that it will be hard for any solo player or even small group of players to purchase all of the spells in the game. Imagine the gold cost in doing something like that. It's not feasible. Especially if we're looking at hundreds of spells down the road. This would be a supplement to game play. Not a primary means of game play.
If this were to be a 'post-launch' game mechanic, like a DLC, then most players would have gotten most of their abilities to begin with. Perhaps they just can't get to Tartaros or Arboreus in order to get that one spell.
Every mechanic has a 'con'. It's just determining how impactful that 'con' would be, and if the list of 'pros' would overshadow it. In this case, I think it could.
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The thing that you're missing though is that the base spells aren't necessarily worse or better than a level 3 spell. The devs are making it so each of them are situational and might be more valuable at level 1 than at level 3 according to your build. Secondly money is available anywhere, the argument "That player would actually have to have gathered enough gold to make a purchase" doesn't justify removing the exploration factor since you remove any achievement you would have by just buying. Instead of having a unique system where the only way to get stronger is to explore new worlds and fight new enemies, you're suggesting that people should be able to acquire almost everything they can want, just by acquiring enough gold. You're also assuming the price will be high, the only difficult part is acquiring the skill itself. The price will be coming from the cost of materials not the person's knowledge of the skill as they'll just be able to keep printing the tome until they run out of paper, which I highly doubt will be expensive.
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@WaterMerchant said in Spell Tomes/Books?:
The thing that you're missing though is that the base spells aren't necessarily worse or better than a level 3 spell. The devs are making it so each of them are situational and might be more valuable at level 1 than at level 3 according to your build. Secondly money is available anywhere, the argument "That player would actually have to have gathered enough gold to make a purchase" doesn't justify removing the exploration factor since you remove any achievement you would have by just buying. Instead of having a unique system where the only way to get stronger is to explore new worlds and fight new enemies, you're suggesting that people should be able to acquire almost everything they can want, just by acquiring enough gold. You're also assuming the price will be high, the only difficult part is acquiring the skill itself. The price will be coming from the cost of materials not the person's knowledge of the skill as they'll just be able to keep printing the tome until they run out of paper, which I highly doubt will be expensive.
I disagree with you. Base spells won't be better, otherwise there won't be a reason to upgrade them. Even if they were situational, players will want those spells. I watched a Q&A about upgraded spells, and that they may involve cooldown reductions. If that's the case, then that is a major advantage and it will be sought after. What are we actually losing when looking at the repercussions of this system? The grind of killing a mob 1000 times? In order to learn the damage types, resistances, etc, you'll have to do that anyways. So we're losing what? The actual visual representation of seeing a creature and lessening the initial grind to reveal a hidden spell. I thought people didn't like grinds.
You're insinuating that there won't be a reason to explore if we give players the option to purchase a base spell. That doesn't make sense, and I've addressed that already because upgraded spells have tasks required of them. There are plenty of reasons to explore. Legends, cities, resource nodes, trading caravans, combat POI's, mounts, gathering enchanting resources. And in the future, dungeons, caves, portal gates, naval travel, inter-world and outer-world travel, and probably much more.
Why couldn't it be expensive?
Paper? Ink? A deep cost in crafting perks? Enchanting resources? Of course this initial cost will be reached at some point. Spell scrolls could be printed with reckless abandon.
What if it required a special item that could only be obtained by difficult tasks? Low chance drop?
Now you have a high initial cost and a high maintenance cost to providing these scrolls.
Now the price goes up further, potentially making it even harder for small groups or solo players to buy them. But still possible. I'm looking at ways to break down the gates to end game and make this game more accessible long term. And also not ruining the experience for everyone who supported the game.
