the new update on 21-11-2020 launched. changed the upkeep into unrealistic numbers.
cities , especially new ones, cant do these amounts. we already strugle with old numbers.
please check where it went wrong lol
Good job on the colors btw, looks much warmer now
If you have more than a few people in your city which would be for most guilds, the upkeep isn't unrealistic. It is for a small guild.
I agree with Fubar. Right now all of these mining cities will probably be ruined in about 3-4 days. Also how will cities pay the upkeep on the first day. Is there a trial period? This getting ridiculous! I would say a farming city/town could potentially support 1-2 mining towns at best.
And if this is to prevent guilds from spreading out into multiple cities, why is increasing population actually a bad thing.
Yeah that upkeep is straight asinine.
Edit: maybe they're wanting to end the alpha cause with this there'll be 3 or less cities on the planet in a couple days. Upkeep should be a gradual starting curve that goes up sharply around rank 7-10.
I think the values in table above are reasonable BUT only for full release. It's very high for alpha when less than 1/5 on nodes are actually populated due to low player, but it's even worse that you implemented at such a late point in alpha - where not a lot of people are playing. All of the cities are going to decay in next few days because no one can afford taxes.
I could agree with that, but maybe even not then for some of the lower ranks. Rank 1 and 2 shouldn't require hardly anything. Like what it was before. Then a steep incline could work. But yeah, now its a swan song for cities
Well just skip towns totally if the upkeep is the main focus of the game. I didn't think the game would be a farm simulator.
Update from Promo:
There's also an error in that upkeep table
It should range from 20 to 80 not 20 to 140 (ref cereals) - Ill try to put hotfix out 2moro morning
Does that mean even rank 1 needs 20? If so, that doesn't really change anything.
@Esoba Currently for cereals you get +4 sacks needed per rank. This would lower it to +2 per rank for a max of 80 cereals at rank 24. We discussed this in discord. A wheat field in none fertile ground gives you around 6 sacks worth of grain. As it makes that every 6 days we can assume that it basically makes 1 sack per day. That means you need 20 fields or so to become self sufficient - that isnt a lot imo
At this stage 20 cereal is still a heck of a lot for any mining city. We're rocking some fields and don't come anywhere near that. Those early ranks should still be around the 4 protein (rank 1) and maybe 0-4 cereal if they're being fiesty. And I'm talking full release. Now, there won't be but a couple cities in a week. When you get up to ranks 5+, I can see cereals starting to take off, but there shouldn't be that level of entry on just starting a city.
yeah unless you are on fertile ground you have like 50% yield from the fields in mining towns.
@Esoba Hmmm - that is very strange. Keep in mind the formula of 1 sack per day only works for wheat and as long as it stays above the irrigation requirement (need to water every 20 hours or so?). I asked Harley from OT and they confirmed seeing similar numbers from each field. This is in mining town as well btw
@CoachFubar @KirwinHansel @MorganReed @Esoba @Mudz there is an error with the new city maintenance table. Values for Cereals and Proteins are too high (the values at rank 24 should be 40 and 80 respectively, not 70 and 140). Hotfix coming tomorrow, apologies!
Right now all of these mining cities will probably be ruined in about 3-4 days. Also how will cities pay the upkeep on the first day. Is there a trial period?
Upkeep now starts after 3 days. The system is going to be radically different in the next test anyway - more info in the roadmap!
That being said, mining city are not meant to be able to rank up (above the first few ranks) unless they buy farming products from farming cities Ideally, a well-populated mining city should actually have no farming plots internally (because it needs all the space for shops and houses and +prestige decorations) and buy all edibles from farming cities.
Is like to see the math over time. At a minimum that's 20 fields in a mining city. Thats a 5x4 slot, which is a crapload of spacing taken up. Then you have to rotate. Even if you had 20 fields it wouldn't produce that long term. At 50% yield (mining city) i was getting 2 sacks to 2.5 sacks out of a field. Thats less than 1 per day. And I can't just replant them with wheat later. So you'd likely need 30 to 40 fields for this to work...and thats for a rank 1 city. I know ultimately trade is what needs to happen, but in alpha, with these numbers there won't be enough to help hardly any survive.
Thank you for the update. Does that mean low ranks will go back to not needing cereal?
@Esoba I will admit - I completely forgot about crop rotations - which would effectively double field amount required like you pointed out. And yes - I do agree on your point regarding it being alpha. It would have been hard to pay taxes even at start with less than 1/5 of nodes populated - but now as most players stopped playing it's downright impossible.
The numbers may be a bit high for an alpha test with less people logging in, but long-term for a full fledged game I would actually say that these taxes are not high enough.
So I can understand the frustration for those who are struggling a bit currently, but I think those frustrations are mainly due to it being implemented mid-alpha test (with limited population) instead of from the beginning of a full release game.
With that said, I am glad it is not planned to be super easy. Managing a city should not be as easy as building a personal house.
So, cities are a chore-lock. I wonder how many people will really want to do the same things every game session, just to keep cities going.
I know I'm not interested. It's increasingly evident Fractured isn't for me.
I am playing fractured since this fall alpha was release, and I can say that for a mining town as any other town, the values of 4 to 8 protein sacks were ok up to rank 4 which was the first to require cereal. That would be specially true and fair for a small group of players who's starting out in the game and want to play more casually.
But, after this patch and after reading all the changes to the city systems that towns will have in place in regards to how the Upkeep fee will increase and work for a possible full release in the future, I can assure you that not many towns will be able to survive on the game. At least not having a requiment of cereal right out of the gate. The first iteration tho, where you would only need cereal at rank 4 was totally fine and totally duable, and its was not an issue at all for a small group of players to keep up with the protein requirements. Sometimes playing solo and trying to keep up with the protein requirements, I was even able to come up with the amount everyday, not doing anything else other than going around and obtaining meat for the up keep. That alone would take hours do get done tho, and I am assuming that not many people would like to do that everyday, but in other hand, a town is not ment to be ran by a solo player so they would have to find a way to balance things out and make sure that it would NOT be possible for a solo player t hold a town for too long and strain the rest of the server on not having a chance on trading with that Town for the resources that the town in question would hold.
For a small group of players, 4 to 8 players, keeping up with a town would be a constant of ranking up to 4, not paying ceral, downgrading to 3 and keeping up only with protein and paying the outstanding amount of cereal everytime they reach that, or even just not posting their protein to the board and having the rank stuck between 2 and 3 everyday. Thats totally possible to keep up and fine (if the amount of protein stays between 4 (rank1), 5-6 (rank2) and 6-8 (rank3). Which would related into NOT being so easy and possibly too boring for a solo player to keep up and they would eventually give on the town and allowing others to take it from them, which would be good for the economy of the game as a whole.
Having the chance of testing all the City Systems and being playing for about 3 weeks now, I would say that a regular player would NOT have to own a town, or even being part of a town but ONLY IF, there was some way of obtaining the Metal Armor and Weapons from the Towns by traiding or doing some sort of reward system where the town would have a "Request Board", that i've described on my review. I will post it here for you guys to see how it would work.
18. Town Bulleting Board: Proposal
This is a proposal for a system that will allow players (citizen of a town) or governor/vice, to create a request for something they need. For example, a Town in need of specific consumables, such as meet, wheat, reagents, herbal medicine, etc… or weapons and armor pieces, could post a request, that can be picked up by other players from other town, and be filled up, receiving a reward on completion. This would create another level of demanda for items in remote places or towns that would be starting out or towns that will have a huge need for specific kinds of items. Also would create a good system to entice players to be roaming around, visiting different towns, looking for these orders to be filled up, and regular players would able to get on hold of items they would not be able to otherwise, such as Heavy Armor, Metal Weapons etc.
I will do my best to try do describe this system bellow:
- A citizen finds out that he needs a weapon made, but his town does not have any material or even a blacksmith or a woodshop to make it for him.
- Citizen A posts a request for that item paying a certain amount of Gold, or effering some items in exchange for that.
- Citizen B visits the town and see the order, accept it and go his way to complete it.
Once the Citizen A post the order, all the items that would be used as a reward for that would should be in the Citizen’s A inventory and will be taken away from him, holding them as the reward that will be paid to the player who will fullfill it.
- Citizen B brings back the item/items to the town and make a delivery on the Bulleting Board, receiving the reward that he agreed upon.
- The order will then be removed from the Bulleting Board, and only Citizen A will be able to see it later.
- Citizen A come back to the Bulleting Board and collect this item, removing the order from the bulleting board completely.
So with this sort of system in place would be possible for any player in game to obtain what they want and look for towns in need of the resources to upkeep their towns, and count with regular/more casual players to help them in doing so, while the town itself would then produce items for other players (not their citizens only) and it would increase the interest of players as a whole to enjoy the game and play was they see fit.
I think the Town system is very well implemented and the fees for upkeep will be in constant adjustments until it gets to a point of finding the perfect amount of resources needed to make it fair for large and small group of players, as well as taking into account that this game can become a very hardcore game, or a more friendly casual/having fun with friends kind of game.
The way that the game is right now does not reflect how it will be in the future, and I believe that all the feedback will be very important to the devs in order to archieve everybody's reality when it comes to how much time people will realisticaly invest on the game everyday.
We cant forget also that most of us had invested a whole lot of time at the first couple of days, some investing an unrealistic amount of hours into the game just to be able to test and see everything, but it will not be like that in the future, nor when the game launches. The hype is a big factor that we have to also consider at any launch and we will have a lot of more experienced players from previous alphas trying to get towns as soon as possible to retain resources and start working towards crafting the best gear as soon as possible, and in most cases, we will see what we are seeing now, having towns abandoned and not being able to keep up with their upkeep, which in my opinion is very good and needed in order to allow other players to take those towns and build them from scratch again, allowing them to enjoy the game as much as others had enjoyed at the beggining of this alpha test.
I appreciate all the devs work and congrats boys, you are doing a great job! This was an amazing experience for me and I am looking forward to see what will be happening in the future. Keep it up!