Why are young status players allowed to kill legendaries?
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Doesnt this allow people to abuse the pvp protection mechanic and farm pages? Thoughts?
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I'm so new I don't know exactly what legendaries are, but don't you want new players to get a feel for all aspects of the game? At retail release, 80 hours is going to go by sooo fast. So I get 2 or 3 weeks of being able to get to all the content before territorial players can cut me off from it for good? At least I might know which content is worth fighting for if I was able to sample it.
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PvP camping of the Legendary spawn points is not exactly to be encouraged anyway. Yes, it will happen, but any little things the game can do to discourage it from being a regular accepted thing is a plus in my book.
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Since pages can be bought, a young player could just as easily grind money/reagents or offer to help build the city in exchange for a page, couldn't he @Jigganaut?
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A young player has less than 50kp. He isn't really contributing that much to the legend, he is mostly being allowed to be there. It would be the exact same as him being gifted some pages.
Also, abusing it is hard. Remember that the protection is account based, not character based. You can't keep making new characters to gain the protection again.
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A lot of the power scaling in the game comes from equipment. If a new player (especially melee) is gifted with a set of enchanted armor and weapons they could easily take on the beginning world bosses and in a group could take on a medium.
If all they did was camp those bosses and log out while others gather the summoning materials for them then yes, they could abuse the pvp mechanic to get a slow trickle of pages (and materials eventually) for the whole protection time without possible contest.
I agree that this is an issue but cannot think of a way to make the legendaries combat zone a enforced pvp area where there are no protections at all. (it would also make the battles more tactical in the careful use of AOE abilities so as to not hit allies)
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I guess from my perspective, if someone has young status they are a new player learning the game and grinding on normal mobs. The legendaries are named that way for a reason, they should be for the more experienced players who have geared up and are trying to push for 60 talent points. I realize that young status is account based, that however does not keep someone from making another account with a young status player who can farm without fear of pvp. I wasnt aware people were selling the pages, but thats just part of the economy. If someone is farming them on young status characters and selling them thats another reason to block. If not then it will be abused and will effect the overall economy of the server, imo. Thanks for all the great feedback so far!
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@Jigganaut Blocking young status players from participating in Legendary raids defeats one of the cornerstone tenets of Fractured.
Fractured bills itself as a Vertical, not a Horizontal Growth Isometric Sandbox game. As such, one of the primary selling points from the very beginning is that a new player, from Day 1, right after logging in, could meet up with his/her guild/party/friends, and immediately participate in a meaningful manner, with little more than a gear upgrade gifted by his friends.
You block the new status player from doing this, and you defeat a main reason so many bought into the game in the first place. Legendaries are already limited by needing to summon them to their Altar now, usually requiring Flawless Gemstones, so they still need someone who's been around to collect the materials for that, or the gold to buy it off of a Marketplace.
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I agree with @GamerSeuss, especially for the concept of "get into the game since day one", you should not limit people based on the time they played.
On the other end, I wouldn't mind removing the new player protection on game launch, so you can really get into the game since day one, included being ganked, it's a harsh world.
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I would like for that to be true, but unfortunately right now there is an incredibly high difference between 50k and 150k kp chars. I know that I'm a broken record on this matter, but having 60 talent points is like having around fifty additional tier 2 enchants on your equip. The effect of talents must be greatly reduced if we want this game to work as marketed.
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The simple answer is probably because its Alpha and they want people to be able to test it without PVP
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The problem isn't "trying to block new players from content," the actual problem is that with that function, it becomes very easy for players with young player status to exploit getting the lore tablets with no risk.
You are all decent people who are thinking of players with young player status as completely new players trying to learn the game. You are not thinking of experienced players making new accounts just to have characters that are intentionally being kept as "young players" to take advantage of the young player status.
Have "experienced players" gather all the mats, trade to 1 person with a "young player status character" then that player can hold all the summon mats with no risk, run to the altars, summon, then either solo the easy legendaries or have a group with them to kill adds(so that they don't get too much knowledge points to kick them out of young status), legend dies, the group trades the pages to the safe status player, and then the player can carry it all back to a safe spot without risk of losing them to any pvp, and then trade them to the accounts that want the knowledge gain.
Too easy to exploit if someone is trying to do so.
Possible fixes? I'm not sure. Make legends unsolo-able completely, or make successful summons kick players out of young status, or something. Still not a 100% fix, but better than the current situation. The same issue happens with young status players being able to mine for hours without risk, since the status got extended to 40 hours playtime, If someone is solely using the time to mine/transport resources, that's still a while.
I hate that this type of behavior exists. But never underestimate what people will try to do to gain the upper hand. But, maybe this is all just more of a concern due to it being testing phases where free keys are being given out.
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@Harleyyelrah
Thing is, I see nothing wrong with them using that as an exploit, if you want to call it that. Yes, they are taking advantage of protected status, but players have done that since protected status first showed up in games. If someone wants to go through all that hassel to keep their character in protected status as long as possible, they end up skipping a whole lot of other content in the game, AND they aren't out in large Ganking mobs taking advantage of that situation instead.Basically, it's no big deal, and not exactly an unbalancing exploit. PvP shouldn't be seen as a given, but rather as an exception that happens occasionally, at least on Syndesia. If I get ganked every single time I go out to gather ore, or fight a legend, that's when I see a problem happening.
Would I use the exploit you talk about, NO, not my style of play, and I wouldn't cheat myself out of that much great content just for the slight advantage that gives.
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I am always so impressed by folks like @Harleyyelrah & @Nekrage who can somehow suss how any system can be exploited.
The nasty minds in this world are often a mystery to me but I am so very grateful for the 'White Hat Hackers' who understand how that sort of person thinks, and do what they can to protect the rest of us from being hurt by selfish greedy f*cks.
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@GamerSeuss said in Why are young status players allowed to kill legendaries?:
(...)but players have done that since protected status first showed up in games(...)
That's not a convincing argument to allow game-weakness abuse. Players have used aimbots basically since the invention of FPS, that doesn't mean one shouldn't try to prevent this.
@GamerSeuss said in Why are young status players allowed to kill legendaries?:
(...)they end up skipping a whole lot of other content in the game(...)
No. You assume that they are only ever playing this very character. @Harleyyelrah is talking about people who have multiple accounts. They can have all the content they want on their first 1-5 characters and the other ones are just smurf/mule/alt accounts that serve these first 1-5. They get all the content they want, but they get a 'free' amount of resources as bonus.
@GamerSeuss said in Why are young status players allowed to kill legendaries?:
(...) they aren't out in large Ganking mobs taking advantage of that situation instead(...)
Again, no. The people doing that are exactly the ones 'out in large ganking mobs'. A true skilled PvP player doesn't need (and likely doesn't want) to (ab-)use such a mechanic. The little kids that just want attention and aren't skilled, so they have to go out in groups and strike their targets unprepared and even then have to target inexperienced players, these are the ones that use such a mechanic to easily farm the legendaries and the resources, so that they can be fully equipped on their killing sprees. Likely enough they are even doing that with a bot/macro, so they can still play and kill you on their main characters, while the alt accounts farm resources.
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@Logain They still only have so much time in a given day. Every bit of the time they spend on their Alt account exploiting the new Account Status is time they aren't playing their main accounts which do all the real content in the game.
Plus, New Player Status is account locked, which means every time they wish to create one of these Alt accounts, they must get a whole new user account. Fractured is set to not be a subscription based game, however, I do believe the plan is for it to be a pay once, play forever plan, so every time they want to make these Alts, they end up spending money to support the game, and the exploit really doesn't hurt anyone else
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@GamerSeuss said in Why are young status players allowed to kill legendaries?:
(...)Every bit of the time they spend on their Alt account exploiting the new Account Status is time they aren't playing their main accounts which do all the real content in the game(...)
First of all, killing Legendaries is what most people would consider 'real content'. It is just less dangerous real content, because you're not threatened by PvP.
Second, and even more important, as I mentioned, these people are likely to bot/macro. They can easily have the second/third/fourth account run in the background, while playing happily on their 'main character/account'.@GamerSeuss said in Why are young status players allowed to kill legendaries?:
(...)pending money to support the game(...)
Yes, that's why @Harleyyelrah mentioned exactly that. The problem is when giving away free keys and if it pays off to invest in accounts during a sale in order to have 40 hours of free bot grind for your main character.
@GamerSeuss said in Why are young status players allowed to kill legendaries?:
(...)the exploit really doesn't hurt anyone else
It hurts everybody, other than the one exploiting.
- The legally playing gatherer who is trying to get a decent price selling his items is easily undercut
- The innocent player is being ganked by a perfectly equipped and 60 talent point mob that had no problem getting reequipped.
- The city that is being under siege/that sieges has their opponents happily reequipping right under their nose and nothing they can do about it.
- etc. pp. ...
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@Logain said in Why are young status players allowed to kill legendaries?:
First of all, killing Legendaries is what most people would consider 'real content'. It is just less dangerous real content, because you're not threatened by PvP.
Second, and even more important, as I mentioned, these people are likely to bot/macro. They can easily have the second/third/fourth account run in the background, while playing happily on their 'main character/account'.Yes, Legendaries are a great part of the Real content of the game, unfortunately, it's not their main, heavy play account that's taking down the Legendaries, just their Alts, and sure, they can transfer over the Lost Tales, but still, they aren't getting to experience the Legendaries from the account that really matters to them.
Secondly, as with most games, I'm Sure Fractured is going to try as hard as possible to disable to possibility of using Bots/Macros for automatic play exploits, meaning these players will have to physically play the account to get the advantages. More effort, thus, needs to be put into anti-Macro/Anti-Bot play than in limiting 'New Player' safe status behavior.
As I said previously, the game began it's main marketing push with the claim that a brand new player could come out of the shoot, meet up with friends, not hold them back, and take on boss raids and such because of it's vertical over horizontal progression and thus taking away the ability to take on Legendaries from beginning accounts defeats that entire claim.
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@GamerSeuss said in Why are young status players allowed to kill legendaries?:
(...)disable to possibility of using Bots/Macros for automatic play exploits(...)
A noble cause, like seeking peace for the world, and as futile.
@GamerSeuss said in Why are young status players allowed to kill legendaries?:
(...)taking away the ability to take on Legendaries from beginning accounts defeats that entire claim.
You could always opt to forfeit the protection. Its the same 'problem' as becoming a murderer on day one of your adventure, which is part of the promise as well
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I read about making alt accounts to use again the newbie protection to advantage.
But will accounts be free in the end?
Because if yes then yes, I see a huge exploit problem.
If not, still can it sound a bit like pay to win, since you can make accounts and use the newbie protection to gather critical stuff for your main account.
Maybe in the end you can just lift or highly reduce the span of newbie protection.
Or maybe lift it if certain actions are taken, such as legendary killing partecipation.
