Is there planned any "CD reduction" in case of spell saved?
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As melee you auto attack and here and there use an attack that keeps you close to your enemy. Many melee (warfare/assassination) attacks have "cannot miss" property. Spells don´t (unless they´re skillshots). Do casters get for example shorter cooldown on spell that was resisted? Or do they have to wait till nukes are out of CD? Because autoattacking is probably not the way to go for dedicated casters (unless necessary).
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@asspirin Getting a reduced cooldown on a resisted spell would essentially increase the power level of all mages by default and on top of that it would essentially make opyimizing your defense before fighting a mage almost irrelevant: this would simply overtune mage powerlevels. It was never meant to be an easy plug-and-play class: it provides a higher skill ceiling and potential power level in exchange for a higher skill requirement in order to be effective. This change would decrease the minimum skill requirement in order to be effective and increase the winrate at top performance. I simply don't think that it's the area that should be adjusted.
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People really like to make sure Mages are the only worth while class to play in games, don’t they. Why not just say every hit is 100% and critical chance has 100% multiplier. Now the mages are all happy and nuking at max range all the time.
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@BlueGoblin said in Is there planned any "CD reduction" in case of spell saved?:
sure Mages are the only worth while class to play in games, don’t they. Why not just say every hit is 100% and critical chance h
Long Live the MAGE!!!! Hurrrrah!!!
(Bow...bow down and prostrate yourself before the Mage!)
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it provides a higher skill ceiling and potential power level in exchange for a higher skill requirement in order to be effective
To be honest mages seem pretty simple, I was afraid about mana management, but considering fact youre getting even greater mana regen on natural 20 INT, one shouldn´t run out of it too often.
If spells dont crit, all "skill" they need is to max accuracy, luck, maybe some saves (and ofc CD) + make a combo that cannot be survived and one getouttahere ability.People really like to make sure Mages are the only worth while class to play in games, don’t they. Why not just say every hit is 100% and critical chance has 100% multiplier. Now the mages are all happy and nuking at max range all the time.
Just not sure what mages will do if some of their spell in wombo combo is resisted - nothing to do with skill, just rng. Even with fully maxed accuracy (1000) you have only 56% to land it (not including luck). It sure is unlikely anyone will have all resists maxed, but if caster meets such dude, he might have trouble.
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@asspirin said in Is there planned any "CD reduction" in case of spell saved?:
Because autoattacking is probably not the way to go for dedicated casters (unless necessary).
The ranged damage from a magestaff is not something you sneeze on IMHO, so I believe it is intended to have that in your rotation too and not just spells.
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@Yitra Fair enough; damage from staff autoattacks is increased from weapon damage, right? Wonder if projectile speed can be increased.
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@asspirin said in Is there planned any "CD reduction" in case of spell saved?:
@Yitra Fair enough; damage from staff autoattacks is increased from weapon damage, right? Wonder if projectile speed can be increased.
As we are getting the option to use better materials (other wood ?) in upcoming test, resulting in more weapon damage (would make sense as metal weapons are getting more damage too) this is something we can know for sure/test soon!
Not sure if projectile speed will become a thing, more variables makes things harder to balance.
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This just means mages shouldnt only minmax int for spell power.
They should also invest in perception for spell accuracy.
Not really sure how it is now but, imho, every school, melee or spells, should need investment into accuracy to not miss... or at least, to miss as little as possible.
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@Gothix perception might not be necessary, it offers you Accuracy, Crit damage and Crit chance so unless you specialise to do damage with your staff, you only use accuracy (if spells really cant crit). Then its better to put those precious stats elsewhere and get accuracy via enchants or abilities (like Inspire - 1PER gives you 15 Accuracy, with Inspire 1CHA gives you 10 accuracy but also a lot of saves + also LUCK which increases damage, chance to pierce saves and buffs your own saves). PER seems to me like melee/bow only stat and even then only if you go crit route (so basically pvp only stat) - warfare skills often dont even need accuracy to land hit.
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I would suggest that staffs could work same way as bows. Perhaps you need to craft or buy 'charges' to your staff (like runes in RuneScape) which basically works like arrows. Staffs could make less damage, but still offering mages something to do while downtime or when oomed.
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One thing we should consider is that different classes are good in different scenarios. For example, single-target melee DPS are good in small scale pvp, but cannot compete with aoe mages in farming or zvz. These being said, I don't think aoe mages should be able to handle dagger users 1v1.
Besides, the good thing about this game is that you are less restricted to a class and more to a class group. For example, a mage who plans to go solo, can pick a skillshot-heavy loadout. A dagger user who plans to join zvz, can pick, depending on their stats, either a frontline (mdps) or a backline (archer) loadout.
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@Razvan True. In addition, I presume melee fighters will have AoE ability options as well and perhaps the dagger users can have something, like fan of knives in WoW (throwing knives all around the user), even their main thing would be in single target combat.
I would not be personally worried about ranged damage dealers, I am actually more concerned about melee damage dealers and how they will perform in ZvZ fights. There are few things which might cause some serious balance issues between melee and ranged, friendly fire and player collision. Ranged damage dealers needs to worry about these factors much less than melee, and therefore, I am really keen to know how the developers will handle this matter.
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@Tuoni said in Is there planned any "CD reduction" in case of spell saved?:
I am actually more concerned about melee damage dealers and how they will perform in ZvZ fights. There are few things which might cause some serious balance issues between melee and ranged, friendly fire and player collision.
That's actually a very good point I haven't thought about. This is more interesting when you weight in that evil characters have FF on, while neutral+ characters don't. I hope they rethink this.
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@Razvan said in Is there planned any "CD reduction" in case of spell saved?:
@Tuoni said in Is there planned any "CD reduction" in case of spell saved?:
I am actually more concerned about melee damage dealers and how they will perform in ZvZ fights. There are few things which might cause some serious balance issues between melee and ranged, friendly fire and player collision.
That's actually a very good point I haven't thought about. This is more interesting when you weight in that evil characters have FF on, while neutral+ characters don't. I hope they rethink this.
I think that is anyway something which cannot be decided and carved in the stone before wider testing. I guess having FF with evil characters is meant to make neutral and especially good players life easier in the open world, but I am not sure if that is the best way to do this. Actually SBI wanted to implement FF for Albion, but they needed to drop that because they did not manage to balance that system between melee and ranged. I am not saying that FF cannot be done, but it can easily cause serious balance issues, especially when there is player collision involved as well. On paper it sounds like ranged life is much more easier and safe when you do not need to worry about AoEs from allies.
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Melee can be quite OP, especially if more tanky, and having some good AOE CC utility skills, like AOE chainpull, which pulls all targets within certain range towards them and stunns them shortly - followed by ranged nuke on that location.
ArcheAge had a cool spell, which created a forcefield in certain radius around the player, trapping group of people that were around the player inside it, cutting them off from rest of their team, especially from healer support, if used correctly.
Even with collision, melees can be quite OP, it just depends on how tanky they will be, and how much utility spells they will have, and how OP those spells are.
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why instantly assume a CD reset is every hit. it could be a 1-10 minute timer on it before it activates. there are passive skills in games that can only trigger once every x duration.
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and how much utility spells they will have, and how OP those spells are
I hope no ability will be OP on its own, this would be failed game balance. Combos can however never be balanced (imagine character in DOTA with 4 ultimate abilities) and my bet is meta builds will pwn. Some ability combinations sure will be better than another no matter how hard the devs will balance them, because ability might suck solo but in proper combo setup it will be unstoppable.
Also melee weapons do aoe damage on their own, don´t they (aoe swings with 1h slashing / blunt weapons and piercing attack damaging enemies even behind primary target - spear etc.), seems like all melees need is survivability, gap closers and some crits (if spells cant crit, melees have quite the advantage).
why instantly assume a CD reset is every hit. it could be a 1-10 minute timer on it before it activates. there are passive skills in games that can only trigger once every x duration
That´s nice idea - ability that would reset your CD of failed spell ... or at least reduce it Wouldn´t be too OP as it would take 1 valuable slot thus reducing your nuking potential and would go off only once in X seconds just like Shield block for example.
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Everything can be OP if wanted but balancing is the hard part, especially when taking consider different kind of combat situations. If you make melee more tanky so they will be viable in ZvZ fights that makes them OP in smaller scale fights and especially in 1v1 situations. That is the challenge what FF and player collision will create, it effects more on melee than ranged.
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@Gothix
Having an mdps able to aoe pull, stun and damage the enemies is utterly OP, I agree with you. That's why, ideally, skills should be tied to the weapon: hammer/mace get aoe CC and tanky skills, 2h axe/spear get aoe damage, knife gets big single target damage. This way you can also tell what the enemy is capable of doing before engaging them. The ability to have 3 weapons equipped defeats this. Once the tests will focus on combat balance, they will have to do some compromises.
