Primitive weapons

Razvan

@Razvan please don't put albions crafting or tier system in comparsion to fractured, literally everything about it was pretty bad for a full loot pvp game, beside that your argument is valid

I didn't mind the gear to be honest, but the bonus you got from spec and the amount of grind (pre random dungeons) was absurd.

Jetah

@asspirin said in Primitive weapons:

@Jetah Yep i got it , but then only one thing would happen - nukers would go full tank, gankers/backstabbers full damage, meta would totally change and everyone would go same build. But idea is good - why not set such rules for "asteroids" - maps you can visit for some challenge. They would last only as long as you visit asteroid and would add to challenge.

i forgot about the asteroids ><

i dont see a nuker going full tank if there's no magic. i dont see a 2h going in a zero melee damage world.

there could be specific cosmetic rewards for joining and participation in these activities too! We could build a whole set of gear and weapons that rotate. helm, weapon1, chest, weapon2, pants, weapon3, boots, weapon4, shoulders, weapon 5, pet1, weapon6, etc.

@Shivashanti
i rather like the idea of them and it fits the lore of the game. besides, sometimes you want something different, asteroids or planets with that could be a temporary 'event' style thing.
meta's exist for all games. there's always a mathematically superior build.

Znirf

@asspirin said in Primitive weapons:

@Znirf Thanks for reply. It does make sense, it´s just sad that primitive weapons will be useles after few days, no matter Casters won´t need them anyway (stats on weapons will not affect casting in any way, right? Hope so ... for unarmed casters).

It's still too early to talk about these kinds of things. Anyway, there will be weapon enchantments with crit and spell damage bonuses. It's also possible that we will create something more specific for arcane spells (staff or rods that give enhancements only for spells from a specific School of Magic).

Tero.Kaze

I think that it would be move effective or satisfying to "work" through the evolution personally. What i mean is that if it is about the knowledge then it would be a development for the character/account.

Harvest 1000 Stones = +1 knowledge of Metallurgy opens up Iron Ore
Harvest 1000 Iron Ore = +1 knowledge of Metallurgy opens up Coal

2 points of Metallurgy opens up Steel

Jetah

@Tero-Kaze said in Primitive weapons:

I think that it would be move effective or satisfying to "work" through the evolution personally. What i mean is that if it is about the knowledge then it would be a development for the character/account.

Harvest 1000 Stones = +1 knowledge of Metallurgy opens up Iron Ore
Harvest 1000 Iron Ore = +1 knowledge of Metallurgy opens up Coal

2 points of Metallurgy opens up Steel

but that goes against their 'no grind' policy.

asspirin

@Jetah ...and also agains horizontal advancement

Tero.Kaze

@Jetah said in Primitive weapons:

but that goes against their 'no grind' policy.

@asspirin said in Primitive weapons:

@Jetah ...and also agains horizontal advancement

Wow you took that way to literal...So Killing 50 Goblins to get a skill is not Grinding??? Any repetitive action in a game for a reward is grinding by definition.

I was just using a plug number for effect not as a suggestion, if it was just 10 it still would be a grind.... By definition YES!

My intent was to create a discussion not to get lectured on lateral sorry Horizontal Advancement. I guess that to me if on day 2 boom you can craft best material for a given weapon class. There is no point for Primitive anything, just run around, hide from packs, build house.

asspirin

@Tero-Kaze But

Harvest 1000 Stones = +1 knowledge of Metallurgy opens up Iron Ore

Harvest 1000 Iron Ore = +1 knowledge of Metallurgy opens up Coal

2 points of Metallurgy opens up Steel

Imo there is difference between "i kill X bad guys --> I get ability X" and " I harvest X lvl 1 material so i can unlock X lvl 2 material". All abilities learnt from monsters (hopefully) will be on same power level (yes, some differ in power, but also cost more memory), I will not have to unlock one skill of one enemy to unlock skill of other enemy . This kind of grind based on prerequisite is boring and always have been (aka "make 1464131846 same daggers to unlock sword") and as its based on power levels, it´s imo not very horizontal.

Xzoviac

@asspirin said in Primitive weapons:

@Tero-Kaze But

Harvest 1000 Stones = +1 knowledge of Metallurgy opens up Iron Ore

Harvest 1000 Iron Ore = +1 knowledge of Metallurgy opens up Coal

2 points of Metallurgy opens up Steel

Imo there is difference between "i kill X bad guys --> I get ability X" and " I harvest X lvl 1 material so i can unlock X lvl 2 material". All abilities learnt from monsters (hopefully) will be on same power level (yes, some differ in power, but also cost more memory), I will not have to unlock one skill of one enemy to unlock skill of other enemy . This kind of grind based on prerequisite is boring and always have been (aka "make 1464131846 same daggers to unlock sword") and as its based on power levels, it´s imo not very horizontal.

I hope some of the more unique spells will be on bosses and a little difficult to get

For example acid dragon could turn a flame thrower attack in to a acid spray

Razvan

@Tero-Kaze said in Primitive weapons:

My intent was to create a discussion not to get lectured on lateral sorry Horizontal Advancement. I guess that to me if on day 2 boom you can craft best material for a given weapon class. There is no point for Primitive anything, just run around, hide from packs, build house.

The game will be A LOT more grindy than most people on the forums assume or it will fail within a couple of month after release because... what will people on Arboreus do after they unlock almost everything in the first 1-2 weeks? What will keep people pve-ing long term?

asspirin

@Xzoviac Sure, but ability will keep its power, it will just be little different (but not stronger or overall beter - it might have lower cooldown, but lower damage as well or so). But it would sure be nice to have dude specialised in one element. Personally im more interested how CC skills will change.

Xzoviac

@asspirin said in Primitive weapons:

@Xzoviac Sure, but ability will keep its power, it will just be little different (but not stronger or overall beter - it might have lower cooldown, but lower damage as well or so). But it would sure be nice to have dude specialised in one element. Personally im more interested how CC skills will change.

A hard 1 second stun may turn in to a 3 second slow for example

A single target silence that stops all castable spells may turn in to a aoe deafening that could stop only 1 type of spell or only stops attack spells

Something along those lines

Yitra

@Razvan said in Primitive weapons:

The game will be A LOT more grindy than most people on the forums assume or it will fail within a couple of month after release because... what will people on Arboreus do after they unlock almost everything in the first 1-2 weeks? What will keep people pve-ing long term?

Enjoy the sunshine, have some ~~tails~~ tales around the fireplace (RP) and kick the shit out of those invaders if the time has come. Besides that we have the dungeons, fishing, maybe become an abomination.

And unlock 400 * 3 levels of skill in 1-2 weeks ?

Razvan

@Yitra said in Primitive weapons:

@Razvan said in Primitive weapons:

The game will be A LOT more grindy than most people on the forums assume or it will fail within a couple of month after release because... what will people on Arboreus do after they unlock almost everything in the first 1-2 weeks? What will keep people pve-ing long term?

Enjoy the sunshine, have some ~~tails~~ tales around the fireplace (RP) and kick the shit out of those invaders if the time has come. Besides that we have the dungeons, fishing, maybe become an abomination.

And unlock 400 * 3 levels of skill in 1-2 weeks ?

Not everyone is a completionist and if your gamble is that RP will keep people playing, you appeal to a very niche kind of player from a genre that is almost a niche itself.

asspirin

@Razvan Imo guild vs guild might still be enough to let us going. Dota 2 has always been the same thing - same map, same heroes, same items, same everything and still everyone still plays it - because of pvp. Fractured is supposed to have MOBA taste so why shouldn´t it work here (if there ever was also some kind of arena for 5v5 in moba style, I would be glad ). From videos it seems like every other mmo, grind is just different, so I don´t see any reason it should fail, it´s not that different from others. In every mmo game ever after you rached max lvl you either:

PVP (of course) and more pvp
complete hardest dungeons
complete all the archivements (or here collect all the skills)

all these should apply for Fracture too

In for example ESO i hated it all the way to max lvl, then I started enjoying it. I don´t care about quests (just as everyone playing arpgs, quests are for games like Torment), i care about fight. If I wanted story, I´d play single player game. Do you remember story from Path of exile? Elder scrolls online? Guild wars 2? Im sure these game have some, but I haven´t read single line. Imo if only thing Fractured offers is PVP, im fine with it.

Razvan

@asspirin
Because dota2 is a completely different genre, with a different appeal.

it has "vertical" progression. You need to buy items X and Y and then combine them into item Z, which can become item M. Remove gold from this process and allow everyone to start with whatever items they want and the game becomes a lot less interesting.
you go straight to action. There is no downtime - you start the game and a few minutes later you are in a match. In a mmo however, you waste a lot of time by finding a party, deciding on a farming spot, traveling to the said area while praying you don't get ganked and so on.
it is generally balanced. The game makes sure everything is as fair as possible: you always fight exactly 5 people, everyone starts with the same resources and there's even a matchmaker who tries to find opponents of the same skill level as you. In a mmo however, that's not in the realm of possibilities. When you step out of the city gates, god knows who you run into.
the games last half an hour and then you start over
it doesn't try to simulate a working economy

In most of the mmos I played, they kept adding end-game content...
Anyway, to address your points

there is almost no pvp on furries planet and full-loot pvp on the others (you can see how many quit Albion just for this)
people claim that there won't be different pve difficulties and a new character is able to farm everywhere
again, doesn't appeal to everyone

So, if the release will be how people on the forums claim, it will be a really niche game in a genre that isn't at it's peak popularity right now. I still don't understand what is the target demographic for furries planet in these circumstances.

PS: Albion has a very fair 5v5 arena that nobody plays other than doing the dailies for the swiftclaw skin (I haven't played in the last 6 months, but I doubt anything changed in this regard).
PPS: I pay attention to the story of whatever game I'm playing because that's why I play RPGs, but I understand that I'm probably in the minority. Another minority is achievement hunters.

Shivashanti

@Razvan said in Primitive weapons:

there is almost no pvp on furries planet and full-loot pvp on the others (you can see how many quit Albion just for this)

People quit Albion because of many reasons, but surely not because of safe zones and full loot pvp

And the arena is all but fair, there isn't even a matchmaking

Razvan

@Shivashanti said in Primitive weapons:

People quit Albion because of many reasons, but surely not because of safe zones and full loot pvp

I didn't say people only quit Albion for those reasons, I said that full loot pvp is one of the reasons why so many quit within a few hours of gameplay. How did I conclude that? When it became f2p, the top 2 complaining reasons were the lag and full loot pvp. Also, I have a very hard time believing there is a considerable amount of long timers who play in blue zones.
The point I was trying to make is not that full loot pvp makes people quit, but that it appeals to a small percent of players, making it a niche game.

And the arena is all but fair, there isn't even a matchmaking

Lack of matchmaking is the only thing you can complain about. But then again, arena was never popular, so a matchmaking system would just raise the waiting time from 10min to god knows how long. How would this improve things?

Shivashanti

well thats true, full loot games are in fact niche games, but to be honest there are enough themeparks etc to play, people just want to complain and ruin the rare good full loot games and sandboxes because they can't handle pvp at all.

Gothix

There is a good portion of people who cry for the sole purpose of crying and complaining. They come to a game, chose a topic and start crying. And it doesn't matter how good game you make, they will find something to cry about.

PvP is simply the easiest topic to cry about, and for those people mentioned above the top choice because it affects the most other people, so they enjoy complaining about it just to disturb as many other players as they can. It doesn't even matter if its pro PvP or anti PvP, they chose a side and start complaining.