Knowledge System Account Wide
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@Jetah I think it should be when you kill a mob and it appears in knowledge tab you should be able to scroll down and see the skills that mob offers instead of ? Unknown. This way when you find a certain mob with skills your class needs you can search for that kind and farm it to gain the skill needed.
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@Nyquil44 said in Knowledge System Account Wide:
@Jetah I think it should be when you kill a mob and it appears in knowledge tab you should be able to scroll down and see the skills that mob offers instead of ? Unknown. This way when you find a certain mob with skills your class needs you can search for that kind and farm it to gain the skill needed.
I would agree with that, particularly if it used that skill against you. A lot of this "knowledge" is just gained by observation. Considering that these fights are usually just stupid long, even an unmodified box of rocks Gladiator can pretty easily discern, okay, pokey thing hurt it, smashy thing not so much. I saw it do XYZ, I think if I practice, I can do that too.
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@Jetah A bunch of the skills already implemented in the game are the "kill this mob a bunch of times" type. You have to go there and kill that mob until you get the skill. Or maybe you need to travel to a hot area with high ganking activity. Regardless of how you name the process of acquiring a full build, it's time consuming and the more it takes, the less chance someone will have it unlocked unless they really want it.
The point I want to stress is that it would suck if there would be a very strong chasing/escaping skill unlocked by some worldboss and doing that boss on your healer would unlock it on every character you create (especially your ganker).@Nyquil44 After a short while there'll be a DB with every mob out there anyway, so it doesn't really matter and it adds some exploration element to the first wave of players.
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@Razvan I can only merge threads, not posts unless I copypaste one of your comments into your other comment but that's something you can do yourself.
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I'm sorry, but it's just not gonna work with the knowledge system, as it is your progression. Cut that out and all you're left with is gear, which can, also, be easily circumvented.
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@Jetah said in Knowledge System Account Wide:
but we're assuming that knowledge is static. unless it's a random chance from killing mobs or something then people will note how they got their knowledge and it'll be easier than "omg how do i get this specific knowledge..
So far you get knowledge points from killing certain amounts of every npc/animal in-game and the first time you gather a resource. These knowledge points can be exchanged for skills who you unlock by killing those npc/animals.
No need to assume.
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I believe on many occassions people will not know how exactly theygot knowledge.
Puff! You gained knowledge but...
Did it pop because you just killed a mob...
Did it pop because you killed the mob in forest...
Did it pop because you killed the mob in night...
Did it pop because it took you more then 2 minutes to kill the mob...
Did it pop because you carried an orange in bag while you killed the mob woth a mace...
...You get the picture
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There will be people data mining the code and I'd say within no time we will know all the particulars.
@Ravzan I've already argued exhaustively about knowledge giving other characters advantages over characters without it and the argument against has always been this is a horizontal power curve. This meaning that everyone is equal on terms of power. Knowledge is not supposed to give an unfair advantage to even a fresh character out of the creation process. If that argument holds true there is no reason not to unlock all knowledge on the account as any character gains it.
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Hi all! Knowledge won't be account-wide, we'd like to encourage you to discover all the planets, animals, monsters, plants and abilities without shortcuts. I can assure you that it won't be an easy job handling all the various "not native planet" debuffs and passivities during travels! The only things that can be shared among different characters will be your dwellings and skins.
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@Farlander I don't understand what you mean exactly by horizontal power curve (could you please draw a graph?).
I read what the devs have to say about this and it just looks like a marketing scheme because a new character is obviously not as powerful as a seasoned one (even leaving the gear aside) since they don't have abilities and talents. Knowledge is basically XP used to unlock the said talents & abilities (which are discovered in an interesting way and can be leveled). Having knowledge gain bonus as a premium account feature tells me that (like any other mmorpg), the game will be a bit grindy.
PS: https://fractured.gamepedia.com/Knowledge
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Depends how you look at it.
In particular situations for which starting abilities are sufficient, seasoned and fresh characters will be equally powerful.
However seasoned characters will be able to handle wider range of situations.
You can say that makes them overall more powerful yes.
But in part of scenarios they will be equal to fresh characters.
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Maybe I am wrong but here is how I think about it. Fresh and Veteran players are equal in strength but the veteran player enjoys the edge because it knows how to use that strength better. Its like a rooking and seasoned baseball player. In the weight room the lift equal amounts. Neither is stronger. On the field though the seasoned player has the edge. He has seen more things. He is not fooled by certain pitched the way the rookie might be etc...
The Veteran players edge will come in better being able to use their strength.
Ofc I could be completely wrong and possibly need to go back to bed...
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@Razvan said in Knowledge System Account Wide:
I read what the devs have to say about this and it just looks like a marketing scheme because a new character is obviously not as powerful as a seasoned one (even leaving the gear aside) since they don't have abilities and talents. Knowledge is basically XP used to unlock the said talents & abilities (which are discovered in an interesting way and can be leveled). Having knowledge gain bonus as a premium account feature tells me that (like any other mmorpg), the game will be a bit grindy.
The Knowledge system will prevent "hierarchic" boundaries. Of course the seasoned characters, with more in-game understandings, experiences and discoveries, will have advantages (I think that it's a core part of the knowledge, also in real life
) but there won't be great disparities between new and older players, giving a usefulness to all of the mobs, places, and abilities.
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@Razvan That was my argument. As you can see that is not the case from the replies. I still find it hard to believe that all those knowledge unlocks will not be "more powerful" than without them. The only thing I can rationalize this with is that the gains from knowledge unlocks are so minimal that overall even with all of them unlocked compared to someone with none unlocked they still don't give an advantage. That to me makes me wonder if it is even worth unlocking them lol.
@Znirf I would argue the largest part of any player base in a mmo is usually pvm type of players. Any game I have ever played pvp players make up the minority unless the whole game is centered toward pvp. When UO released Trammel it was proven the majority of the player base only wanted to pvp on their own terms-not 24/7. With that said I would argue that the vast majority of players (being pvm players) will not give it much thought to unlock knowledge trees in areas they will be at a disadvantage against pvp players especially when they prefer pvm style of play. EVERY game I have played the forums end up a fight between pvm and pvp players saying how the game should be. I fully expect this area right here to be a hot topic when the game goes live. Then again if the knowledge unlocks don't provide enough of a reason to meet the challenge I expect the system will be ignored completely except by the most hardcore players who like to achieve and collect everything in the game.
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@Farlander I see. I must have misunderstood you. Anyway, only time can say, but I think all these people claiming a fresh character will be equal to a seasoned one will have a big surprise: one of the premium account bonuses is extra knowledge gain which is useless if you can unlock stuff fast; skills have to be unlocked; skills have levels and are enhanced by unlocked talents. Even if the difference between a skill at level1 with no talents, and it's top form is 10% (and I bet it will be higher than that), when you account for how many skills you got in the skillbar it adds up to a considerable difference. I think it will be pretty much like Albion - a new character can spec quite fast to use a siegebow and be useful in ZvZ given he has good positioning, but no way he can compete in small scale pvp vs full spec'ed characters Besides, most of the people I know wouldn't play mmorpgs if they didn't offer a form of progression.
PS: PvE - PvP balance will be a huge topic indeed. Ganking is always one of the hot topics in both Albion and UO and no doubt this will be the case here as well. In fact this is one of the things I wonder: how will the economy work given the fact that some locations are safe and others not? On top of that, characters from safe planets will have big penalties if they try to farm on demon-planet. In a very short time, animal planet resources will be dirt-cheap and demon-planet resource will be horribly expensive, which will lead to a situation similar to pre-multi-BZ-portals Albion where there was no reason to be in royals.
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@Znirf said in Knowledge System Account Wide:
Hi all! Knowledge won't be account-wide, we'd like to encourage you to discover all the planets, animals, monsters, plants and abilities without shortcuts. I can assure you that it won't be an easy job handling all the various "not native planet" debuffs and passivities during travels! The only things that can be shared among different characters will be your dwellings and skins.
I'm actually less inclined to explore if I'm only limited to 30 minutes on the fury planet. Only because it'd take so many invasions to get a good amount of knowledge to unlock stuff there. Then there's the, and I'm assuming here, randomness of where you'll spawn during an invasion. So as you gain knowledge on the fury planet your likelihood of spawning in a place you need becomes less. example: lets say fury planet has 100 spawn/invasion points. when you get to about 75-85 of 100 the remaining amounts become harder to get. If I need one of those last 25-15 spawn spots then I will get give up because I know the odds are against me.
@Farlander
at least the beast will be simi-protected from pvp on their planet. they'll have to actively seek it out. Humans is where I can see the forums heating up.
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@Jetah said in Knowledge System Account Wide:
I'm actually less inclined to explore if I'm only limited to 30 minutes on the fury planet. Only because it'd take so many invasions to get a good amount of knowledge to unlock stuff there. Then there's the, and I'm assuming here, randomness of where you'll spawn during an invasion. So as you gain knowledge on the fury planet your likelihood of spawning in a place you need becomes less. example: lets say fury planet has 100 spawn/invasion points. when you get to about 75-85 of 100 the remaining amounts become harder to get. If I need one of those last 25-15 spawn spots then I will get give up because I know the odds are against me.
I am sure there will be other people who don't want to put the effort to get that last part of knowledge. But with the exploration also comes skills you can unlock by killing specific species on those planets and gathering resources unique to those planets.
The first I expect to be reward enough for pvp minded players and the resources will be great for craftsmen and trading minded players. And those resources will also be needed for enchanting and armour which is interesting for everyone.
The difference between supply and demand would become obsolete if it was simple to go everywhere you want/need, so making it a challenge is a good thing imho
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Will they be in demand? Will people put that much effort into really nice gear if the next time you die it is gone? I remember in UO I just crafted throw away armor for pvp which was gm crafted. It was actually better than alot of what people used and it was easy to replace. I knew that when I died anything good would be gone. I expect that here as well. The insurance system went in for just that reason. Are you going to spend tons of hard earned money on some really nice gear only to lose it the next time you died? I expect things that last will be in bigger demand such as pets and house decor.
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@Farlander If it's worth running around in expensive gear people will do it. For example, Albion is also full loot yet in the endgame continent people wear expensive items. To name a few reasons: endgame pve requires good gear especially if you want reasonable clear time; you make your money back from loot; you usually play with other people, so you won't die that often; if your guild wants to control zones then bringing good gear in zvz definitely helps.
