Give us Attribute Resets please
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@Jetah said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
(...)having points that are fluid and can change based on how you play the game is best(...)
I agree with you.
My point is that you can never have that though.There are restrictions by race, which are going to be as punishing as a wrong attribute distribution. Like I mentioned, the difference between 21 Strength and 15 Strength (depends on the kind of demon you pick) is just as bad as the difference between 18 Strength and 12 Strength. Hence people are always forced to create a new character, even if you implement a fluid change over time. You'd invest a lot of development time and gain nothing.
@Jetah said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
(...)developer wants to keep the player playing(...)
You just argued against yourself. There is no less expansive content for developers than having people create a second or third character because they were unhappy with their first one.
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@Logain said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
@Jetah said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
(...)having points that are fluid and can change based on how you play the game is best(...)
I agree with you.
My point is that you can never have that though.There are restrictions by race, which are going to be as punishing as a wrong attribute distribution. Like I mentioned, the difference between 21 Strength and 15 Strength (depends on the kind of demon you pick) is just as bad as the difference between 18 Strength and 12 Strength. Hence people are always forced to create a new character, even if you implement a fluid change over time. You'd invest a lot of development time and gain nothing.
@Jetah said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
(...)developer wants to keep the player playing(...)
You just argued against yourself. There is no less expansive content for developers than having people create a second or third character because they were unhappy with their first one.
There is one way you could get a system everyone likes
That is with a god wish system allowing you to get enough rep in your gods affinity to wish to be a diffrent race.
This should be hard to get and would be worth just making a new char.
Hopefully will satisfy the one character something's changed and I dont wanna make a alt group
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@Jetah said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
@Logain
only the people who min-max will have different race alts. the majority of the players will stick with 1.the start of a game, many people will not research the mechanics for hours before trying it out. thus they will mostly go in blind and will rely on the tooltips that popup on the screen at creation. many developers just give some basic information on that screen 'as to not overwhelm or confuse' the new player. having a player dictate stats at that point is pretty horrible. which is why a reset or a way to adjust them is needed.
@Jetah Thank you! Subscribe to it completely
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why can't you have fluid attribute points? it'd mimic our bodies! i mean we need immersion!
races just start at a certain point. that's it. fluid attributes means you can make a blood race melee. but without that they're stuck. so if you like the character design but you want a melee player then you're gimping yourself and teammates by selecting it.
now that i think about it, having races with static starting attributes goes against the core design of the game. where your knowledge allows you to change skills for a situation.
and i didn't argue against my self, i pointed out there are two perspectives to games!
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@Xzoviac I don't believe you can ever have any system that everyone likes
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@Jetah "having races with static starting attributes goes against the core design of the game" ---> if you could change everything including starting stats and passive / active abilities of races, why would we need races, one race would do, right. If you want totall freedom, just roll human with 15 in everything and then just enchant your equipment to be stronger or smarter depending on situation. Talking about stats - Abilities don´t have any stat req´s, so you CAN be anything you want any time. So then it seems you want this only for appearance.
It´s same as with some guys saying "we want to cast attack spells in full plate" - solely for the looks. There will be vanity items, these should cover it. You´re not forced to pick "caster race" and make a warrrior, but you can.
In mobas like DOTA you must know who youre facing, or you have low chance of victory - moment of surprise is strong advantage. Here you can be everything at any time, so Im glad I can tell whether enemy is caster or melee at first glance thanks to armour or race. And as mr. Gibbx says nothing will ever satisfy everyone.
If there´s big update / change of abilities, i´d be glad to have chance to reroll so I can still play what I wanted, but aside of that, it´s my responsibility.
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i want the freedom (as it's a sandbox game) to be whatever i want to look like and do whatever i want to do (given time for attributes to adjust/change).
if there's going to be no classes then attributes need to adjust in some fashion.
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@Jetah Well, matter of taste then :). I didn´t mind in times of Diablo II, I will not mind now.
Btw you can look what you want to look like and so far your attributes are the only decision you make, all else is changeable ingame.
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@asspirin said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
@Jetah Well, matter of taste then :). I didn´t mind in times of Diablo II, I will not mind now.
Btw you can look what you want to look like and so far your attributes are the only decision you make, all else is changeable ingame.
if you want 1 race but the starting stats are horrible for your play type then you'll be less effective than those that choose the other race. why would people want an under performing race/spec combo?
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@Jetah Bear will always be physically stronger than wolf, stats should reflect that (deer kin should be too, but for balance reasons they´re weaker
). At least we will not meet 80cm tall gnomes dual wielding 2 handed weapons like in wow 
Im rolling necromancer/abjuration/warfare bear mage hybrid - who said you have to be pure thematic class
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@asspirin said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
@Jetah Bear will always be physically stronger than wolf, stats should reflect that (deer kin should be too, but for balance reasons they´re weaker
). At least we will not meet 80cm tall gnomes dual wielding 2 handed weapons like in wow Im rolling necromancer/abjuration/warfare bear mage hybrid - who said you have to be pure thematic class
if we go with the bear example then no human could be as strong so their str attribute should never be close to a bears. if bears can get to 20 then no way a human could hit 10. so humans would have to stop at around 5 ±2.
demons dont exist so we can't place stats on them.
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As Jetah said, the racial bonuses only restrict some min-max combinations. It's not like I can't make a balanced viable spear mdps deer-kin if I wish so.
PS: Is there any information if the racial bonuses are applied before or after picking stats in the character creation screen?
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@Razvan said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
As Jetah said, the racial bonuses only restrict some min-max combinations. It's not like I can't make a balanced viable spear mdps deer-kin if I wish so.
PS: Is there any information if the racial bonuses are applied before or after picking stats in the character creation screen?
As far as I have understand it (there are no beastmen and demons yet) we are not getting a bonus, but the maximum cap on certain attributes will be higher or lower. So at the end the combination of attributes distribution at the start of your character and the extra you can get from knowledge and/or gear (if that will still be a thing) give you the possibility to become stronger in certain attributes depending on your sub-race. And on the other hand will weak you in some other areas.
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@Jetah Yes, but luckily this is a game, so everything has to be balanced instead of realistic :).
And imo attribute bonuses should be somehow desirable for everyone - so that all stats matter no matter what archetype you´re building. And devs are making it well - strenght is not only melee damage stat, but also decides how long you cant fight (as so far it replaces health, so even mages might want to drop some points here), intelligence decides how many and how strong abilities you can pick and also gives resistances against mind attacks (which melee chars will also need) and lets you enchant (and melees will use it too). nearly all stats are both offensive and defensive, which is nice.
Equipment also gives you choice - if you went low strenght char, just wear bear head and bear necklace - out of nowhere +45% dmg= equivalent of nearly 22 strenght. Chances are youre stronger somewhere else - with low strenght race maybe you´re more resilient, smarter or agile. Strong race will have to increase resists and aim which the intelligent race might have, only high strenght doesn´t make you warrior.
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or we could petition the devs to just throw out all races, have only one available that everyone uses and then freely reallocate all attribute points at will so we could all be min/maxed all the time forever. hmmm yep that sounds like it could be winner for an RPG. Maybe while we are at it we could throw the dang thing into God Mode as well...
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@asspirin actually if you check gnome model un wow they are not much shorter than humans and they are wider
Because of their own hight:width ratio they only appear small.
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@Razvan said in Give us Attribute Resets please:
(...)the racial bonuses only restrict some min-max combinations. It's not like I can't make a balanced viable spear mdps deer-kin if I wish so(...)
See, this is what I fail to understand. Your Erwydra (hart-kin) has a maximum of 15 Strength, whereas your Nheedra (bear-kin) has a maximum of 20 Strength. You state that this is fine and the difference doesn't make your character 'useless'.
At the same time, people in this thread argue that if their Human has 14 Strength it would be useless as a 'balanced viable spear mdps', because others might have 18 Strength.
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@Logain Because that's going to be my roleplay good-enough for pve character. My main will be either a minmaxed mdps hellfire, or bear-kin tank.
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@Gothix Well, according to charts gnomes are like half human height but you are totally right about their proportions - they´re pretty scary. Like giant toddlers with huge ears
My point was that not all professions are suitable for all races - I can easily imagine bear as warrior, but it sure would be harder for him to use a bow. Would be just as silly as a gnome with mace three times his size.
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Gj with that!
