Trading, In-game market


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    Greetings community! Recently, I was thinking about the player-based market in the game and I came up with a couple of questions.

    • So, first of all, let's say I want to be a craftsman, more specifically a blacksmith and I want to sell my merch and have my business. What keeps an adventurer, meaning a player that plays a more combat-based character that wants to participate in battles and such, from crafting their own equipment and be self-sufficient? Because if that's the case and nothing stops them from doing so, I will be out of job (demand).

    • Secondly, would I be able to be more competitive and own a bigger percetage of the market than other craftsmen in-game? And which are the factors that will affect this, except distance between towns of course? Is it just dependent to the different biomes and the uneven distribution of materials?(competition)

    I think that these two questions play a huge role in creating a stable market, or even a market at all. It requires a constant demand of products in order to build a market and competition for it to be a stable and interesting one. I hope to see you guys commenting your thoughts and/or your suggestions on this and to hear from the developers about their thoughts on how to balance and implement such a market.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    Hey !
    For the first, yes, everbody can craft his own equipement, but maybe he don't want to bother with gathering all the stuff needed, and he will look on the market. I'm not really a crafty guy, so I wouldn't bother to trade with a merchant if I need (and if the prices are affordable, of course 😛 ). Sure, there will be competition, but it will be up to you to propose the best items ^^

    For the second, I suppose it will depend of what you sell. I don't think distance between towns and else will affect it. I don't really remember how it will be, if we sell the items in a centralized market (so like mostly all the games, where you can access the items from every market in a town), or it will be a bit like Dofus, where your character stand, and you can sell your items only if people interact with you (it would be cool to have a little stand where your character try to attract the customer 😛 ). And I don't think the distribution of ressources is uneven. Each biomes has his own ressources evenly distributed in it. Like that you can have a bit of a challenge to try to gather ressources from Tartaros 😛


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    Hi! thanks for replying! When I mentioned the uneven distribution of resources I didn't mean within a certain biome, rather than in the whole planet:

    "Exploit the uneven distribution of resources to get high profits when trading at faraway markets – but make sure you reach your destination alive!"
    - As it reads from the official website.

    For the first one, I think that giving the ability for each player to be totally independent breaks the foundation of a market. If you withdraw the need to trade and make it optional for reasons of convenience you won't have a stable market and you remove a lot of its importance. So you will end up with a stripped-down version of a market and maybe with no market at all. But that's only my opinion.


  • TF#9 - FIRST AMBASSADOR

    Since all players can have multiple characters per account it is kind of impossible to block players from making a crafter and a combat character. The limiting factors will be whether a player wants to invest the time into a crafter and also if they have the time. As adults many of us have to work for a living and have family lives to juggle. That leaves limited time to play games. It has been my experience that a crafter usually takes much more time to create and maintain. I have found especially that many pvp players only wish to kill stuff and crafting does not interest them at all. I have found if you are a dedicated player willing to put the time in then you can compete as a crafter. The successful crafters (meaning profitable) will be the ones that gather their own resources.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @ManosMer

    Everyone will be able to craft his own equipment, but this is a full loot system, and players will be loosing all their stuff when they die in PvP and enemies take it from them.

    Some of the players will put an effort and craft own new equipment all the time, sure, but many of the players that want to focus on PvP and not on crafting (constant re crafting would take a lot of their time) will chose to just PvP most of the time, and use the money they gained to just buy new gear when they lose old one, and then go do more PvP instead of "wasting time" on crafting it themselves.

    This is why crafters will not be out of job. 😉


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @Farlander @Gothix thank u guys for your thoughts!

    @Farlander well I don't quite agree with you. While I understand that this will meet the needs of many players, there will be an equal amount (if not bigger) of players that will be able to spend a fair amount of time in the game (adults or not). I mean if you can spend 2-3 hours per day, you could spend half of it crafting and half battling and have all the goods from both worlds. As for players with multiple characters, that's why I thought that a competitive mechanism should exist. For example, players playing only as crafters naturally spend more time crafting. That's why you could reward them by, say, make their equipment last longer (better durability) or something that doesn't break balance and the horizontal progression system.

    @Gothix you give a slightly different explanation that I like better, because you cover a bigger spectrum of the player base. So if I understood correctly, you are basing the existence of demand on the fact that constant combat and thefts will make repeated crafting tiring and the market will be a necessity. While I totally agree with you, first of all, this will make living as a craftsman on Arboreus impossible as non-consensual combat and notorious actions are strictly prohibited. So, you would have to travel to the other worlds to make a profit. And, also, my point is this: imagine that players would need to buy a certain equipment and the price in most of the shops is unjustifiably high. You would have two options. You either buy the equipment and regret your action or, and that's the interesting part, you fight with others for your rights as customers and demand lower prices. Or you abandon your town in search for something better, taking the risk of being robbed or killed in the process. Now, you can just craft it yourself.


  • TF#5 - LEGATE

    @ManosMer I don't think there will be much profit derived from crafting unless certain crafting knowledge is difficult to acquire. For now its hard to say. From what i gather, right now, most profit will be derived from resources(different metals, magic crystals, wood, stone, minerals, food). Also I think being a mercenary will be profitable. For merchants, getting these resources from one city to the next will be difficult without protection on Syndesia and Tartaros. Maybe even on Arboreus due to difficult mobs.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @Crowdac I agree with you totally!


  • TF#2 - MESSENGER

    I think the best way to make crafted goods valuable would be to give them better appearances. Having style rather than stats drive desirability will make game balance easier. To make playing as a craftsman more viable some kind research mechanic would be needed so that players who are more combat oriented would not be able to just buy materials and plow their way up the crafting tiers.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @ManosMer said in Trading, In-game market:

    Greetings community! Recently, I was thinking about the player-based market in the game and I came up with a couple of questions.

    • So, first of all, let's say I want to be a craftsman, more specifically a blacksmith and I want to sell my merch and have my business. What keeps an adventurer, meaning a player that plays a more combat-based character that wants to participate in battles and such, from crafting their own equipment and be self-sufficient? Because if that's the case and nothing stops them from doing so, I will be out of job (demand).

    • Secondly, would I be able to be more competitive and own a bigger percetage of the market than other craftsmen in-game? And which are the factors that will affect this, except distance between towns of course? Is it just dependent to the different biomes and the uneven distribution of materials?(competition)

    I think that these two questions play a huge role in creating a stable market, or even a market at all. It requires a constant demand of products in order to build a market and competition for it to be a stable and interesting one. I hope to see you guys commenting your thoughts and/or your suggestions on this and to hear from the developers about their thoughts on how to balance and implement such a market.

    To me, being a highly secluded solo player the majority of the time, your services wouldn't be required. players like myself wouldn't be your demographic, which is what u r worried about. But i believe players on the opposite side of the spectrum (guild based, with a large demand for high quality gear), will be looking for crafters to buy from, so they dont have to spend time gathering, then potentially spend time refining materials, to then spend time crafting them. People that are usually wallet warriors will be highly succeptable to buying gear i would think as well, as they try to progress as quickly as possible with money (if they have it).

    I think how competative you are would be based on how big your name becomes, how many contacts u have (networking), how much gear u can pump out, how high a quality it is and especially, how good your prices are compared to other merchants.


  • TF#9 - FIRST AMBASSADOR

    @ManosMer You can't give rewards to a player based upon how long they spend in the game otherwise players will just find a way to macro to those rewards. It would also put an unfair disadvantage on casual players. To me 2-3 hours of gaming a day is casual lol. Back when we played UO many of our players did 8+/day. It became their second job. As Xzait said a big name crafter is the guy who has the steady flow of goods. Nothing kills your vendor business more than people showing up and there is nothing in it to buy.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    it depends on the planet you're on. the Beast planet will no very little pvp so very little removal of gear via full loot pvp. however, there will be a decay of gear over time that'll mean you'll eventually replace your gear.

    honestly there's so little information on crafting and the last spotlight was July of last year!


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Jetah said in Trading, In-game market:

    it depends on the planet you're on. the Beast planet will no very little pvp so very little removal of gear via full loot pvp. however, there will be a decay of gear over time that'll mean you'll eventually replace your gear.

    honestly there's so little information on crafting and the last spotlight was July of last year!

    I missed Decaying gear was that in a spotlight?


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Xzoviac said in Trading, In-game market:

    @Jetah said in Trading, In-game market:

    it depends on the planet you're on. the Beast planet will no very little pvp so very little removal of gear via full loot pvp. however, there will be a decay of gear over time that'll mean you'll eventually replace your gear.

    honestly there's so little information on crafting and the last spotlight was July of last year!

    I missed Decaying gear was that in a spotlight?

    i thought it was, i'd have to search it.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    having patented items (lol) or known for a type of product would sound good.


  • TF#9 - FIRST AMBASSADOR

    When you die even by pve your gear does damage correct? I was never a fan of SWG's equipment decay mechanism but I know it is a necessary part to keep the economy moving.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    Gear decay makes sense, to keep economy going and the need for new crafts active.

    I only hope existing gear will also be able to be broken down to basic components (perhaps getting lesser amount back, depending on what is items current durability).


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Farlander said in Trading, In-game market:

    When you die even by pve your gear does damage correct? I was never a fan of SWG's equipment decay mechanism but I know it is a necessary part to keep the economy moving.

    I was thinking about how legendary items (hypothetical here) should have higher durability than other crafted items. Thinking that a legendary item survived over the ages before my hero used it for a month of game play. Then I thought about how if it were removed after a given amount of time, lets say 3 months, then the balance of power could be kept better than letting a specific item last infinity long.

    For RP, the item could stay with the chosen person until the task is done then it breaks, is reforged by (gods, itself, whatever) to be found by the next chosen individual.
    For a game system it could be slightly OP (not 50% better but 5-25%) so that it's power is felt but it isn't a permanent item held by that character. If the person doesn't use it then it's removed faster! Balance would be better because others wont complain about a specific guild owning it and conquering everything.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    I hate item decay, that is, durability loss over time (not use). 😞 That turns the game into a repetitive chore.

    Item durability going down on use is a different matter, but even then, it's annoying.

    What -really helps the economy is something like Albion's item-trashing system, where on PvP death a significant portion of gear is simply removed from the game. I really like that, for two reasons:

    • The dying player has lost everything anyhow, and won't really care if some gear was trashed (would probably prefer it!);
    • The looting player gets some gear (plus the kill), and so still gets a reward (sometimes a very good reward).

    That method "hides" an item sink in plain sight, and is not a frustrating, repetitive burden.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Roccandil said in Trading, In-game market:

    I hate item decay, that is, durability loss over time (not use). 😞 That turns the game into a repetitive chore.

    Item durability going down on use is a different matter, but even then, it's annoying.

    What -really helps the economy is something like Albion's item-trashing system, where on PvP death a significant portion of gear is simply removed from the game. I really like that, for two reasons:

    • The dying player has lost everything anyhow, and won't really care if some gear was trashed (would probably prefer it!);
    • The looting player gets some gear (plus the kill), and so still gets a reward (sometimes a very good reward).

    That method "hides" an item sink in plain sight, and is not a frustrating, repetitive burden.

    thats fine till you consider pve only beastmen, they need a different system, and it does not make sense to have decay on one planet and not the others


 

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