Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting
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As there are a lot of people that will use characters for specific things, I'm curious if there is any data regarding the stat point differences for skills/fighting? Example: If I use a spear to hit X creature, will that damage be exponentially better if my str is 18 vs. 17? How much will secondary stats matter in that same scenario? IE, Dex? Will all str based attacks be the same regardless of secondary stats? Do they only rely on the primary? As far as crafting goes, will we have an idea of what stats are primary for different items that are crafted and will those items be affected by attributes? Example: I make a spear. Will that spear have different stats if it's made by someone that is maxed in the stats for crafting? And will different items have different stats needed for crafting? Alchemy (Int), Metalworking (Str), etc?
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There are 2 thread that I know of, which gives partly an answer to your questions:
Character Stats and Crafting stats
The skills in Alpha 1 were limited in number and diverted over several schools (caster, melee str, melee dex etc) so in no way representative for testing real damage output (damage balancing was not a thing either as 1 caster spell was outdamaging all other spells/skills. Next test will give us hopefully a lot more skills/spells to test with.
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Thank you, yes, I had seen that in the past but I guess I'm more curious to know about the actual differences. In some games, if you have a stat that is similar, there is basically no difference in the grand scheme so I'm curious if that is going to be the same here. DOES 1 or 2 points make THAT much of a difference? If you have a str of 18 and hit something for 100 damage, does 17 mean you will only hit it for 70? So, I'm not sure if anyone has even had a chance to run stats or if that is even something that will be "doable" until beta or later...But thank you
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@Xulu I edited my answer, to be more specific. Alpha 1 was not representative to do that kind of testing with damage. Crafting was very limited anyway.
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@Xulu I take it you’re a min-maxer?
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The majority of the guys that I know who pvp are definitely min/maxers. Trying to be better than other players is what they do. Roleplay, exploring, socializing with others at make believe tea parties is not their thing. Whether you pvp or not you still need to know this info because everyone who wants to explore everything will be forced into pvp at some point. I'm really interested in how a character improves. I'd love to see some hard numbers on gear, stats, knowledge and any other damage modifying effects that improve a character over time.
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@Farlander said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
The majority of the guys that I know who pvp are definitely min/maxers. Trying to be better than other players is what they do. Roleplay, exploring, socializing with others at make believe tea parties is not their thing. Whether you pvp or not you still need to know this info because everyone who wants to explore everything will be forced into pvp at some point. I'm really interested in how a character improves. I'd love to see some hard numbers on gear, stats, knowledge and any other damage modifying effects that improve a character over time.
It’s for this reason, so eloquently written, that I don’t understand min-maxing in an MMORPG, where exploration and immersion are key components.
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@Alexian said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
@Farlander said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
The majority of the guys that I know who pvp are definitely min/maxers. Trying to be better than other players is what they do. Roleplay, exploring, socializing with others at make believe tea parties is not their thing. Whether you pvp or not you still need to know this info because everyone who wants to explore everything will be forced into pvp at some point. I'm really interested in how a character improves. I'd love to see some hard numbers on gear, stats, knowledge and any other damage modifying effects that improve a character over time.
It’s for this reason, so eloquently written, that I don’t understand min-maxing in an MMORPG, where exploration and immersion are key components.
Mainly 2 reasons:
- Whether you pvp or not you still need to know this info because everyone who wants to explore everything will be forced into pvp at some point as mentioned by Farlander
- Even when not a dedicated pvp-er I still want to perform as best as possible if not in pvp then in pve. Interest in exploration and immersion does not exclude that but is a very nice and needed addition. A pure pvp / survival / end game raid game would get boring (at least for me)
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For me at least, exploring the interaction of game mechanics is still exploring.
Also, I like it when games provide ways to learn within the game what's actually happening (as opposed to looking it up on a third-party website, which to me hurts immersion).
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i'd say min-max is best done closer to the release because systems and formulas can change.
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@Jetah said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
i'd say min-max is best done closer to the release because systems and formulas can change.
Pity that I could only upvote that once.
Trying to min max the game now is completely moot. It's about getting the features working for the developers right now, not balancing them, or even setting proper values.
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Think of it this way. 18 versus 17 is a difference of 5%.
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@Logain +1 for working in the word "moot"
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@Pwnstar said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
Think of it this way. 18 versus 17 is a difference of 5%.
Not always no.
Your assuming that 0 stats = nothing (almost all games work with some base value)
Also each additional stat may have a falloff effect, meaning each stat is not equally as effective as the last.
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@Alexian said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
@Xulu I take it you’re a min-maxer?
LOL, yes, I am
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I wouldn't say looking at min/maxing is completely useless at this point. We are at a stage when those numbers can change easier. If no one looks at them then the devs may not see any issues. I agree those formulas/tables will change because I'm sure they are not perfect from the start. I must say I appreciate those guys that do this and put it up on the third party sites because I'm too lazy to do it myself lol.
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@Farlander said in Min/Max'ing and crafting/fighting:
I wouldn't say looking at min/maxing is completely useless at this point. We are at a stage when those numbers can change easier. If no one looks at them then the devs may not see any issues. I agree those formulas/tables will change because I'm sure they are not perfect from the start. I must say I appreciate those guys that do this and put it up on the third party sites because I'm too lazy to do it myself lol.
easier for the developers to put the formulas in a spreadsheet to see how the final values line up at different areas. We have to reverse engineer the formulas which can be off at times. it wouldn't take much for DS to say these formulas are bad, we need to refine them between alpha and beta. Or they could have hired someone that is great at balancing.
I assume we dont even have access to all the attribute options right now. So no boost from knowledge, no boost from gear stats. it literally is impossible to min-max for the final release state when we're missing 90% of the parts needed.
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I'm also a "min maxer". I'm always pulling a minimum of maximum available effort when playing.
I also agree that it's way too early to do any kind of min max plans right now. At most we can generally speculate about core principles and our wishes.
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i understand trying to figure out which race is best for a type of gameplay. but trying to squeeze out every bit of damage when core systems aren't in game wont really happen. but i'll say it would be sweet to (solo) kill bears before majority of the systems are in.
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@Jetah Well since we cant actually play the game yet we have to do something to occupy our time, so it might as well be theoretical min maxing. Then it can all be done again and again and again... like some crazy time loop. hey wait a minute...
