Preventing Bots in Arboreus


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    Obviously there should be a report button we can use, but in an area where they are relatively safe bots will thrive like they do.

    Luckily we have a way to take care of them in the form of our demon friends. What I propose is a double, maybe triple, whammy of goodness.

    Have a debuff that people can buy/exchange that they can use on bots (or people that they think are bots) and allow them to toggle it off if that person replies to them and ends up being a person.

    And allow the debuff to act as a beacon to demon players. Maybe as a dot or arrow on their maps in their direction.

    This acts as a gold/resource sink, another way to encourage people to travel to Arboreus, and is a fun way to deal with bots. Maybe allow the person/bot the option to solve a few capcha's or whatever to remove it in case people try to use it to grief people.

    Thoughts?


  • TF#9 - FIRST AMBASSADOR

    @whisper The debuff being one player based and toggled by that player means it will be abused. Not a good idea.

    Now, allowing the player involved click through to remove it... might seem acceptable, however that just means that some people will essentially spam abuse them to annoy (grief) others.

    Sadly, there isn't a really good shortcut option (that I have seen work) that doesn't involve misery for legitimate players.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @jairone said in Preventing Bots in Arboreus:

    @whisper The debuff being one player based and toggled by that player means it will be abused. Not a good idea.

    Now, allowing the player involved click through to remove it... might seem acceptable, however that just means that some people will essentially spam abuse them to annoy (grief) others.

    Sadly, there isn't a really good shortcut option (that I have seen work) that doesn't involve misery for legitimate players.

    Yeah. If there was an easy answer, it would be widely known. I just saw MapleStory 2 being engulfed by bots and them recently making drastic steps to stop it that has ended up hurting their player base in a pretty uneven trade off.

    Well they don't have to make it a pop up capcha that griefs people like a lot of games like to make it. If it places a debuff on the player that could be the signal they have it and there could be a "Not a bot" button somewhere on the UI that allows them to take the debuff off.

    This would make spamming it pointless, and they could offer like a 5-10 minute immunity from it after someone does the capcha successfully. And if people still use it to just randomly grief people they could increase the cost of the item to deter that kind of behavior.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    demons have 30m on arboreus, there will be places where demons just can't enter.

    @Jairone
    if there was a such system then 1 item wouldn't do it but after a certain amount, lets say 30 or even 100, it would mark the map.

    @Whisper
    there were npc's in one mmo i played where the item was immortal and used as a bot trap. if you continued to attack it it would eventually flag you as a bot. the tutorial even said "there are mobs like this that are specific to flag bots, DONT ATTACK IT". you could of course attack it as it would take a some duration of time to flag you.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @jetah said in Preventing Bots in Arboreus:

    @Whisper
    there were npc's in one mmo i played where the item was immortal and used as a bot trap. if you continued to attack it it would eventually flag you as a bot. the tutorial even said "there are mobs like this that are specific to flag bots, DONT ATTACK IT". you could of course attack it as it would take a some duration of time to flag you.

    That is a nice idea as well. It is still open to use as a griefing mechanic and might need to be limited in how much can be placed in a certain spot. But I 100% prefer these type of methods over limiting trade or making drops bound to characters like other games do.


  • TF#6 - DIPLOMAT

    So what has worked well in other games that other people have seen?


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @trelia

    I have never seen either system (the one I suggested or the one Jetah suggested).

    But if other games have used them I think the more important question would be did it work, and what could be improved on it, don't you think?

    Because if either of these suggestions have proven to work then..... It makes sense to use them, haha. But like has been pointed out both systems are open to abuse/griefing (I personally still think it is worth that effort though. Griefing is a better problem than bots taking over)


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @whisper
    you can't grief the infinite hp (or 100% regen) npc mob.

    @Trelia
    cheapest is just allow players to report and after a certain amount of reports, investigate it.
    second best is pvp but the bot owners can report the players for grief.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    Perhaps a debuff that a player can remove by solving a math question 😛

    Or wait... no...

    I would probably fail.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @gothix
    the bot would be programmed to alert the user to solve it.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    The best way to prevent bots is to just not make it profitable to bot.
    For instance, killing and farming in the same spot over and over in a certain timeframe will give diminishing returns.

    But you can never get rid of bots completely, there will always be those people who want the shinies while not doing anything for it.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @evolgrinz said in Preventing Bots in Arboreus:

    The best way to prevent bots is to just not make it profitable to bot.

    This ☝

    A strikt ban politics for Botting will prevent most Botuser.
    Most games where Bots take overhand is caused in too less punishment by Devs about Botting.

    Then the Gamedesign itself is important, if botting is interesting for people.
    Since we will have a supposed no grind game, there is no benefit for farming bots per example.
    And i am not sure, if open world PVP is possible to bot, at least not that much as in instances PVP Zones.


  • TF#4 - EMISSARY

    For the moment we shouldn't think about it that much. Better find the most bugs and give feedback during Alpha and Beta to improve the game then if bots comes we can deal the issue way better and faster.


  • TF#3 - ENVOY

    Bots in a player driven economy game like fractured wants to be will destroy it.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    Heres some tips for developers to prevent b***

    • Put in some type of Captcha / Verification when a user logs into the game that must be entered and cannot be automated thus preventing 3rd party hack, or program from being able to login to the game.

    • Require Email Verification & give option for 2FA

    • Use a 3rd party payment processor to avoid charge-back fraud, or do not allow direct trading / exchange of currency in game for example gold to silver like in A* Online, this was the worst experience I've ever dealt with because the company introduced this bs and it allowed cheaters to abuse a lot.

    • Allow Free Trade, I really don't care what friends to among themselves, or if a user chooses to give away all their items, currency, or goods to newbies or randoms.

    Personally I could care-less about what users choose to do to get free items in a game, my concerns are RMT that specifically involves the use of Fraud or Botting other than that whatever people do outside of the game and get in return is their own personal or private business.

    Just doing these things helps prevent botting on a massive scale, as well as having the game buy 2 play, obviously there are humans that will attempt to cheat, and in China they actually hire little kids from what I hear to enter captchas and stuff thus rendering it useless, though the steps above combined with human interactions / GM's and investigations will help reduce the amount of cheaters / bots.

    Also just because a person responds in chat doesn't mean they are not a bot.

    Oh and "https://akismet.com/" is a piece of s* stop using it it's garbage.** Basically programmed by little children who can't code or even use a quantum computer /AI that can tell the difference between real spam lol.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @evolgrinz said in Preventing Bots in Arboreus:

    The best way to prevent bots is to just not make it profitable to bot.
    For instance, killing and farming in the same spot over and over in a certain timeframe will give diminishing returns.

    But you can never get rid of bots completely, there will always be those people who want the shinies while not doing anything for it.

    I feel like that is impossible in a player based economy driven game. And yeah, I imagine it would be impossible to get rid of them but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to curb it. My suggestions are way to curb it, so even if they exist they don't ruin the gameplay.

    I am not suggesting these ideas as an alternative to reporting/banning them but a layer on top of it. A double whammy if you will.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    Since Fractured is less about grinding than other MMOs, there hopefully won't be as many bots. However, a report system would probably the best solution.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @owlsanegaming said in Preventing Bots in Arboreus:

    For the moment we shouldn't think about it that much. Better find the most bugs and give feedback during Alpha and Beta to improve the game then when bots comes we can deal the issue way better and faster.

    fixed it for you.
    this game has player economy and trading. it's perfect for bots.

    @LilithDragonFlower

    • i hate captcha and if they do that i'm out. besides, bots have caretakers which will do this if they actually log out.
    • i'd say require 2fa, it helps the developers and players, but again, bots will still use it.
    • eve online, wow, and others have game time trade for in game currency and it's fine. it's great for those that are in countries where currency is poor and they're able to get some type of game time or VIP or whatever.

  • TF#5 - LEGATE

    I don't like seeing legitimate players punished by systems designed to prevent abuse: that swings the abuse from players against the game to the game against the players.

    Hopefully bots won't be as much of an issue in this game.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @roccandil

    That’s a big chunk of money going into the virtual item economy. PC gamers in 2015 spent $5.3 billion on downloadable content, while console gamers spent even more, racking up a collective bill of $6.4 billion.

    i'm still looking for a better source.

    in the meantime, RMT is quite good and they'll get into any game they can.


 

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