Why Magic users will be OP compared to physical users
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@gothix said in Why Magic users will be OP compared to physical users:
It was not. Whoever didn't play original secret world has effectively missed out on greatest MMO in history [...]
Okay, but when you're done changing the topic to how amazing The Secret World was, can you go learn what a rock-paper-scissors game actually is and realize every single good video game is a rock-paper-scissors game?
I even covered it in another topic - to which you replied and basically ignored everything I said.
I'll repeat it here (with added boldface):
@fibs said in NO tank mages:
@gothix said in NO tank mages:
I personally extremely dislike rock paper scissors system. I much prefer where all classes are balanced and viable vs any other class.
Those aren't exclusive concepts. "Rock paper scissors" just means that there are moves you can use that will counter or beat other moves.
Remember that in Fractured every player can use (almost?) every skill. You won't be locked into a class that is hard-countered by an entire other class because, to continue this awkward euphemism, you can get both rock and paper on the same character.
A typical form of rock paper scissors is something like:
- Heavy attacks destroy Block (and overrule Light Attacks)
- You can Dodge and Counter heavy attacks
- Blocking or Light Attacking will prevent Dodge and Counter from working
You chose to ignore this and continue to argue against a hypothetical class-beats-class system, which was relevant neither to my point nor to Fractured (which has no classes).
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FibS, the only people that love rock paper scissor systems are unskilled players, that use this system as an excuse for their own lack of skills.
Anti class attacks you and you die, "ooh it's just because he was my anti class". And when you want to kill someone, you go scout out for classes that you can easily kill cus you are their anti class, and then you boost your ego how you killed them because you are skilled hero, lol.
Meanwhile, skilled players are looking for balanced games where SKILLS determine the victor. And they do not play rock paper scissor nonsense.
So go ahead and keep explaining how RPS is good, and then read the first paragraph and think about it a bit.
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@gothix Ok so first things first and to get it outa the way I'ma commit a fallacy.
Fucking elitist much? "real PvP-ers"? really?
With that outa the way you do know hunting and running are skills needed to be able to do that right? Plus any game worth its salt doesn't make counters that auto win you the match up. They just give you an edge over your opponent.
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@lovechildbell we are talking about rock paper scissors system here, not about the mild edge.
Scissors do not just have a mild edge over paper, they beat it, period. So when discussing RPS system, that means its the system were class is beat by anti-class.
And this thread is about schools being balanced. So if the game is made that warfare school is beat hard by conjuration school then that means game sucks major ass.
If attributes are not balanced and INT proves to be too advantageous to magic schools, and player progression who are using those schools, over players that play archers or warriors, than game will suck major ass.
And you can keep talking about how games, moving, running, bla bla,... whatever man, but if RPS gaming becomes reality here, no competitive players will be playing, because RPS system is the system that automatically determines the winner.
If schools are balanced and anyone can win than this is NOT RPS system. And that's what we wish.
People cheering up for inclusion of RPS system are people that can't really play, and they wish to rely on RPS system in order to be able to win on occasion vs their anti classes. Such people should go play something else, and let Fractured be a skill based MMO rather then RPS MMO.
Nuff said.
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@gothix That can honestly be said for any stat really. And yes saying a system is RPS is overly simplifying it as RPS rules wise is pure mechanics the skills part comes in the meta game, where as video games have a significantly higher micro and macro management, but INT being too strong is a mechanical problem that can influence the meta game not micro or macro management.
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or maybe they added that bonus to Int because it was too weak compared to other attributes?
to balance attributes properly tests are needed and only after test we can know for sure if something's OP or weak.about RPS as I said before as there are no classes with distinct look it can be made so it's hard to guess opponent skills. And you can mix skills so a single anti won't really affect you.
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so, someone redirected me here from my post (https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/6839/suggestion-secondary-learning-stat)
And yeah, what you guys think of this? would it help?
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hmm this is interesting
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@albuswolfer We don't know enough about how the stats work yet. It's true INT is required for learning, but how much INT? Devs have already stated having less than 10 in any attribute will have detrimental affects (of which we know little). Maybe 10 INT is equivalent to 100% learning rate and anything less translates to a slower rate (say 10% per -1 point below 10).
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@kellewic
That would still make INT pretty powerful for learning.
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@jetah said in Why Magic users will be OP compared to physical users:
@kellewic
That would still make INT pretty powerful for learning.In what way if it tops out at 10? If a build goes below 10, that would be by choice and they have to understand those consequences; just like any other stat.
Now if learning keeps getting faster above what the devs have stated you should have as the minimum, then yeah, I might agree.
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@kellewic
because 20 is the max. it would still be powerful unless there was a ~5% difference between 10 points and 20 points.but i think i understand your point. you're saying at 10 you get 100% learning speed but points above 10 don't make the learning speed any faster.
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Why exactly do ppl think intelligente will be more powerful than other stats?
Int = all magic power scaling
Strength = all strenght based weapon scaling
Der = all der based power scalingIts just a matter of numbers ppl. Strenght skills may Scale higher than magic and be cast via stamina, while der based skills may simply be CD based without any Ressource.
All the while the knowledge gain in int makea sense since there will probs be 100 melle and 100 der skills while there will be 200 magic skills. Who would put poinzs inti wisdom while strength or vitality werd options with mich higher gains since More DMG vor HP clearly beats an inferior intelligente skill without scaling
Edit. Auto correct in mobiles suk. Hope everyone understands my point
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@albuswolfer I think the best solution would just to not have int or any other stats affect the rate that you learn skills. Int already has good bonuses without it affecting learning.
@demilich said in Why Magic users will be OP compared to physical users:
Why exactly do ppl think intelligente will be more powerful than other stats?
Look at the skill spotlight and observe how many schools scale with int vs str. An int user can be a powerful healer, buffer, CCer, damage dealer, summoner, and tank just from one stat. And from what we know so far, skills either cost mana or health, there's no alternative skill resource.
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@demilich from what could be gathered , Int will determine learning in some way( not know tha amount), and over and 9 of the so far 14 schools are int based( then 5 char, 3 per, 3 dex, 2 stg and one cons) so yeah, int is overloaded.
so, first all schools should be 2 stats being the more used, at minimum.
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something like :
Abju: int and cons
trans: int, char and per
conj : so far ok
divi: char and per
enchan: this should be based on the item, but char, per, int and dex should be the pool
illu: ok so far
inv: int and or perc or cons
necro : ok
rest: perc but primary should be based on the font (char for divine, int if not)
MA: Dex, str and con
warf: looks ok
assa: ok
mark: ok
musi: couldn't really think of a secondary :x
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Int overloaded since lots oft different magic is based on it.
Yet how many weapon types will there be and how many skills will be used with poleweapon or two handed sword or axe and shield.
Second we dont know, so i would not simply assume, until proven wrong would at most State a concern but not make it Seem a fact. I personally havent Seen any Prove yet AS to int being op.
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@Gothix
What exactly do you mean by "skill"? The definition can range from twitchy mouse moves to chess-like deep thinking.
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@target said in Why Magic users will be OP compared to physical users:
Look at the skill spotlight and observe how many schools scale with int vs str. An int user can be a powerful healer, buffer, CCer, damage dealer, summoner, and tank just from one stat. And from what we know so far, skills either cost mana or health, there's no alternative skill resource.
Exactly.
I really love archers, and I planned to play an archer from the start, but after I've seen how many schools are based on INT, and INT being a stat used for learning as well, I kinda decided to play a mage.
I can have both mage, CC and healer skills in skill bar on full effectiveness, and this sounds a lot more OP than being just an archer.
And if things remain as they are now, I promise you 80% of player base will be INT based characters. And then you will have 15% STR based characters for those who always play "warriors", and just 5% of everything else. Mark my words.
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@roccandil said in Why Magic users will be OP compared to physical users:
@Gothix
What exactly do you mean by "skill"? The definition can range from twitchy mouse moves to chess-like deep thinking.In context of this thread, skill as spell / ability. Healing grace, arrow volley, throw shield, vanish,...
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I'd love to see some clarification by @Prometheus as to why INT will be used for so many skills. I'd love to see a dual-attribute setup so that having high INT won't be so beneficial. Eve Online did this and it was pretty good.
