Two Words On Reporting, Leaderboards & Pre-Alpha. I'm tired.
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@vicious We've warned you to stop posting about it on the forum and to report it privately instead. Your Discord screenshots prove nothing because many guilds simply aren't active yet.
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@esoba Honestly, this is the Internet now. Full of trolls and hate, you can't escape it in MMO communities no matter what game you go to this will happen in some form. Only way to avoid this is to play offline single player games only lol. Its better to ignore and go about your day.
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@specter Maybe for you proof nothing but i think the people will see it and make their own minds about, not a flame just some extra info, and btw i gave to you in private before reply here. I am gonna end this story here since all informations are out and people can decide for themself.
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It makes me sad, and a bit pissed, to see people get so worked up over something so trivial, and create toxic atmosphere that can have long lasting effects during the Kickstarter. There are some of us that have been around here for over a year, and I know I do not want to see this project even hit a speed bump and especially not due to people being petty. Anyone can make it into the top 100 and all it takes is time and dedication. First... there is no need to cheat, I got to the # 2 spot with a total of 4 recruits, a friend from work (he just hit 20 but joined nearly a year ago), my son and his friend (both lost interest several months ago but I am still working on getting them back), and Gibbx (congrats on hitting 100+ man!). Most of my rank came from participation on these forums, and daily postings along with daily points.
I am only now actively recruiting, most of the people I have interested will not use my referral code and I am okay with that, I want the project to succeed first. If you are not sold on this project and do not want to help it then simply move on. I am so done with people dragging projects down to fulfill some childish fantasy of wrecking a game. I see people trashing Star Citizen, Ashes of Creation.... anything. Grow up and have the decency of being able to walk away without punching holes in the walls as you leave.
We have a solid core of good people in here. 99% of everyone I have had a chance to converse with have been awesome. It is the internet, sadly that comes with some of why this is even a thread. If you are one of the people that is upset, take a couple days and cool off. Nothing that I have seen is worth it. No one likes cheaters, but no one here is Judge Dredd. Let due course do its thing, and let the people that can do something about it do just that. No need to get Internet-rage it makes you no better than the person you are angry at.
Just my .02
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The forums were a good place to have enjoyable conversations even if some disagree (I'll point to my many conversations with Finland) but we still kept it civil.
Game communities are notorious for being toxic. We can continue that and repel new people from the Kickstarter and other communities or we can change and be better people towards each other. It takes a little work to to toxic but you can type it out, then click the discard button. You'd be surprised how great it feels to let the toxic out but no one reads it. I've done this a few times myself.
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@jetah said in Two Words On Reporting, Leaderboards & Pre-Alpha. I'm tired.:
You'd be surprised how great it feels to let the toxic out but no one reads it. I've done this a few times myself.
I read it Jetah... it's why I can't sleep at night
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And so it begins.
Ah well. It was a good run while it lasted guys.
It was inevitable that it wouldn't last: Humans gonna human.
My condolences to @Prometheus.
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Yikes. Even given a lack of entry for bad behavior, people will cheat at things. It's all over the internet. The idea of being 'best' regardless of how feasible it is, is something people seem to chase after. For instance, high scores on flash games are commonly above the maximum possible.
I do think it is a good rule to exclude cheaters and toxic behavior from rewards for the top end. Sadly, though, this thread seems to be going wild with similar behavior and probably needs a little trimming.
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@mazikar
I have high hopes for this community, even though it's small compared to others. We have to be the people who don't converse with the toxic; we have to be the ones to click on that ignore and report; we have to be the ones to shun that toxic behavior.We have to be the change we've asked for in other communities.
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@jetah Even if we're old and silent about his toxicity can answer any other brand new. And it will go into chaos, because there will be only one opinion that the one who was spotted - evil
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From my experience in the forums I do not find what vicious is saying as unbelievable at all. I have had similar sketchy dealings with the person in question. At the same time Spectre was more than willing to help solve the problem. I find this approach better than making a gross spectacle in the mostly friendly forum we have here.
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I fucking love how most of you are putting on these fake faces saying ''Fuck toxicity, and this community shouldn't be toxic.'' Like once pre-alpha, alpha, beta, and or the game finally comes out all of you is most likely be toxic and start trashing on each other. Quit it with the fake faces, and stop blaming on people saying ''OMG! He's toxic.'' I'm not only defending Vicious, but I'm also defending everyone else in the community who had enough of this bullshit.
What Vicious did was it, right? Yes, most cheaters get shamed in the public and they have to take it what comes to them.
Was it toxic what he done? No, I don't know why you guys even wearing these fake masks or whatever you wanna call them acting like you not toxic one bit or did anything toxic in your life. Quit acting fake, and blaming it all on Vicious. You just being toxic just by blaming this all on him.
Was the developers right to make this post? Developers, I love this game and have high hopes for it and still have it. But, once you made that post and said ''Whoever in the TOP 100 is guarantee to get a pre-alpha key.'' You made it into a competition. So, don't blame Vicious or anyone else for bringing up cheaters... Because... It's your fault also... Sorry, but it had to be said.
What have to change? This community is fine as it is, there's going to be people fighting and being toxic, there's some who act like they not toxic but actually is, and then there's an actual not non-toxic people. This is how mainly every gaming community is. But, if you Fractured going to be a Full-loot-PvP MMO and just ban toxic players for arguing this is not a good thing, you just killing your own playerbase by doing so. If they wanna argue and or fight, then let them if you ban them then they'll just leave and just say ''Fuck it.'' Making competition between guilds and other players is what make MMOs communities so fun because there's so much going on inside the scene and outside the scene that's it's great.
Is Drama good for this game?Take Albion Online for an example, the developers literally just loved the drama and just fed it because the community loved it and brung in new people because the drama wasn't hurting no one at all ''physically,'' and was a great laugh to everyone. That game had so much drama and so much happen to it that even with less then 20k players now still hop on and play it, and new players still flowing in. If you want this game to succeed, you shouldn't start banning people for toxic behavior and or arguing for exposing other guilds. Then, you'll just get rid of that part of the playerbase, and they'll just end of leaving not caring about the game anymore. Which isn't really a good idea to start getting rid of your playerbase just because they like to be toxic.
Banning toxic players, and will this help the community? Fuck to the NO. You'll just be killing the playerbase more over then helping it. Toxic players are still part of the playerbase, and if you think this is a good idea of banning them while kickstarter is on and the game haven't even remotely been completed yet. Then, you a fucking idiot for doing so.
Message to all you FUCKERS who got those fake ''non-toxic masks'' on: Take them off before I do so because I really do hate it when people start acting like something they aren't. Once, the game releases we all know you going to switch up I seen it many times before in other MMOs and I'm not surprised I'm seeing this here. So, keep acting like the nice guy to get into Pre-alpha and then switch up into a toxic idiot or let see how long you going to wear that fake mask.
P.S. If you got something to say then reply to this post and prove me wrong.
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@sparky I say that everything in your power to get active,f in addition to daily reports and you just get in the tops.
Was the developers right to make this post? Developers, I love this game and have high hopes for it and still have it. But, once you made that post and said ''Whoever in the TOP 100 is guarantee to get a pre-alpha key.'' You made it into a competition. So, don't blame Vicious or anyone else for bringing up cheaters... Because... It's your fault also... Sorry, but it had to be said.
dude, we already all figured out that those who will be in the top 100 will get the pre-alpha key, it's clear as the sun in the day. We all have long known (thought) that the top 100 will definitely get the keys to them and the TOP
This to example my the first statement about this on forum
and I'm talking about the message on the forum, because even before we talked about it communicating outside of the forum that is about 5 months ago
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I'll just throw in my two cents, but I think it's important for communities to treat accusations of cheating more seriously than the accusation of toxicity. The former leads to the latter, so treating the former is a good fix for the actual problem, rather than simply treating the symptom. A good way to do this (especially if and when the game comes out) would be to put out a ban list, plus the reason for banning. People should be free to appeal, and they could always just create a new account anyway (for now at least).
As for the leaderboard, I personally believe that it is hardly going to lead to a good choice for the top 100 people to alpha test, and encourages cheating and mass alt creation (thus also inflating the numbers of potential 'players' the devs see in their community, and potentially messing with calculations). The best way to handle it would be to remove the leaderboard, as well as removing the incentive for being top 100. Rather, the foundation rewards should be incentive enough; pre alpha should have an application form, as well as selecting community members most active on the forums/discord in a productive manner.
EDIT: I would also like to say that some of the most successful MMOs in history, like EVE and others, were known for their freewheeling attitude to things considered unsavory by many. Spying on enemy organizations, scamming other players, etc were all freely permitted, so long as things did not escalate out of game and into the real world. A truly free environment with no heavy hand-holding by devs is the best form of sandbox, and I hope this game is going to go in that direction, else you might as well build a theme-park (which is hardly possible on this budget).
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honestly i think people are already getting something out of leaderboards which is bonuses from points, getting more players to this game and such, no need to go crazy over leaderboard ranked really..
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@basileus Dude, they hunted in discorde a month, you imagine a whole month of something firmer. The developers have banned Finland to respond to their messages
Rather, the foundation rewards should be incentive enough; pre alpha should have an application form, as well as selecting community members most active on the forums/discord in a productive manner.
That's the problem, everybody wants to play before. All those people who just get to pre-alpha and other testing for free just will crap the game because of its poor quality.
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@muker Plans can change, and it's clear that the current system is open to mass abuse. Those in the top 100 are unlikely to be the best choice for testing, as they are all from the same demographic (heavily invested into the game, likely hardcore players). In general statistics, it's a good idea to try to get a sample of the general population, rather than picking specifically from one group. The best way to do this is a random selection of players, plus select a few extras from discord who fully understand that they are testing what will likely be a buggy mess. Expect the pre Alpha to have no features, crash often, and feel more like a freshly compiled program rather than an actual game.
P.S Using Google Translate to answer messages often leads to massive misunderstanding, and sometimes it can feel like the other party is talking to a wall (such as asking questions and receiving a generic link that does not actually relate to said question).
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@basileus Well, based on your opinion, then you need to choose from the top 100 really interested people, 1/3 of random (but they must also be active) and some people of the forum, which according to the developers help the development of the game, but not in the top 100 and in total it will be 150-250 people
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@sparky Sorry man, you are wrong on so many levels. But fighting you is what you want. So no. You are part of the problem in this case and not part of the solution.
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Wow. People are really intense about arguing over spamming bot accounts on guilds or what not. It's just a damn profile. In game it won't do much unless he gives those accounts to someone else. As with every community there is gonna be toxicity everywhere, but that alone doesn't mean you should start one anyways. Just be the movement of change and don't continue flame wars, whether your prideful or not. Can we move on?
The Leaderboards were to just give you a standpoint of how much you might need to be active to participate to get in, but with that comes downsides, which you pretty much handled. (I think) If an alt account gets like deactivated to quickly the person won't gain the levels needed. Although, just being in top 100 just doesn't say enough honestly imo. People in the top 10-100 must be like super motivated to test this game on it's pre-alpha stage and know how to contact the devs for bugs. It's to polish the game and such. Some people don't do that as much. The leaderboard is fine and all, but maybe an application form and selecting the best community players might be better than hand selecting the top people. Because people might have jobs obstructing them from testing the game, and or other things.
