VIP system : What do you think ?
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I think it depends on how it performs in-game. On paper, it sounds like the learning slot and knowledge points gain isn't a gamechanger and definitely not pay to win, but to deny the obvious benefits from it is silly. My personal bias towards VIP systems or other micro-transactions is also triggered a bit by the VIP system being this fleshed out before the game is even released for pre-alpha.
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actually you can play the game, sell the prime blueprints for plat then buy prime stuff from the store. so you can play to earn it. only thing you can't grind for is the packs that is sold on the website as those are cash only. it's a heavy time saver if you spend cash up front but you really get nothing out of it. you can just grind materials faster. but prime stuff isn't completely better than non-prime. it's 1-5% at best.
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I've been away for two days, did I miss Prometeus giving his explanation? If so, anybody got as link?
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@logain Nope we have to wait. He's busy for sure we are also waiting the new weekly drawings.
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Pay to win ?
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@crazykiller It's not suppose to be pay to win, but we still need some information from @Prometheus once he have the time
Getting ready for a kickstarter is a lot of work
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Seems like the Kickstarter will launch before we're told why VIP isn't p2w. Yet I feel it'll hurt their KS if we can't discuss it beforehand.
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@logain slacker
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@jetah said in VIP system : What do you think ?:
Seems like the Kickstarter will launch before we're told why VIP isn't p2w. Yet I feel it'll hurt their KS if we can't discuss it beforehand.
Yup, a couple of months ago would have been better tbh.
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yes. a "We're thinking about a VIP system and this is said system in simi-detail, yet not Spotlight worthy. What do you think?" would have been really nice.
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@jetah or give us 3-5 options/variations to discuss about
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without knowing how the learn system working its hard to know what the VIP will do, i think there should be a in-game currency for the VIP (if you leave the VIP in game). but in most games i have played any VIP would have been a must or the game was too hard/annoying/grindy, so in any cases need to make sure it won't happen here.
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I'm comfortable with this as a VIP system, but I understand why other people might not be.
To me, it hinges on the extent to which Fractured truly implements the promise of horizontal progression, with very slight vertical progression that requires in-game activity to achieve.
To my reading and to my understanding of the progression system, this sounds as if once a non-VIP player fills up their first set of ability slots, that player and a VIP player will have equivalent power as they will have had the same amount of in-game time to fulfill the requirements of the knowledge system for vertical progression. The advantage that VIP will have is better flexibility as they will have had time to acquire a greater range of skills.
So the only difference in power level should be while the non-VIP is catching up to the VIP in a given set of ability slots.
That's obviously all in principle, of course. In practice it might not turn out that way. But I'm willing to wait and see - the devs so far really seem to know their shit, so I'm inclined to trust them to get this one right.
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@benseine said in VIP system : What do you think ?:
@phaethonas all nonsence!
I didn't mentioned 1vs1. I made a simpke example that could just as well be about multiple ppl or crafters.
And the game is about exploring to discover/learn stuff to place in those learning slots. So if I got VIP but I spent all my time ingame just killing other players I gain 0 knowledge.
VIP doesn't make you explore and discover faster either. Only if someone with VIP discovers multiple things he'll learn them faster because he can slot more of them in the learning slots at once.
If two ppl have 0 filled learning slots, one has VIP and the other doesn't have VIP, and they discover something at the same time, get the tombe and place it in a learning slot, they get the new ability at the same time.
So it is play to win!
And VIP has nothing to do with finding exploits in games. Plz...
OMG that gave me brain cancer!
When you want to see if a game is pay2win, you don't compare apples to oranges. You compare similar situations.
With your way of thinking Archeage is not pay2win, because I can buy a sword from the cash shop, you will not, we will 1 vs 1 and I will be offline, and you will kill me!
Oh look, Archeage is play2win, not pay2win, after all. In order to make use of the advantage gained you have to play the pay2win game! WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT!!
Sarcasm aside, yes all pay2win games need to be played in order to utilize the pay2win advantage......DUH!
This is why, you compare similar situations. I am repeating myself, why am I repeating myself? Am I talking to idiots?!!
You always compare players/guilds with more or less equal skill, time played. etc etc. Is there a way for one of them to open their wallet and win (or gain an advantage)? The game is pay2win. Is there not such a way? The game is not pay2win and the winner will be determined by the minute differences between the two players/guilds
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@phaethonas if you think everyone here is an idiot except you, chances are you are the idiot...
ArchAge is p2w because you can swipe your creditcard to buy everything to craft highest tier items (atleast when I played it) to get an instant power gap over the rest of the player base.
If that is p2w, then Fractured isn't
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Throws a sword on the ground between @Benseine and @Phaethonas
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@Benseine swipes the card and buys a gun.
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@jetah said in VIP system : What do you think ?:
Why the sub model isn't viable now? What changed? Sure you have the argument "in the past 5 years only one game..." but you are not explaining as to why there was a change.
actually i did have a guess and already posted it maybe you glanced over it. those that were paying for the sub, at the time, were late teens to early twenty year olds. they are now in their upper thirties and forties. There was an outcry by the public that claimed 'they didn't want to pay every month for a game' because they were use to buying NES, Genesis, Dreamcast games with a one off purchase. Asian games started to cross the oceans which brought in a new model, free to play. little did the players know they had hard p2w walls that couldn't be overcome by play time. western developers and publishers looked into those games and saw the income potential and decided to try a version of that. I'm wanting to say LoL was one of the first western/eu developed f2p games, whose success overturned the 'subscription' model.
I have addressed this before actually.
First of all, it is a mistake to compare a finished product (a console game) with a product that receives constant updates. That aside, sure, I can fall behind the idea that at some point there was an outcry by the public wanting buy2play MMOs. But this is buy2play and not f2p and I have said that buy2play is a viable model, whereas the f2p model is not. That said, yes, there was a shift towards f2p games exactly because of the Korean cancerous f2p p2w games.
Now, though, there is a different outcry. Now, players want the sub2play, or at the very least buy2play models. Now, the only reason f2p games are being made is because;
western developers and publishers looked into those games and saw the income potential
which was and is my point.
So, to sum things up;
- There is nothing inherently wrong with the sub2play model
- There are a number things that are inherently wrong with f2p. Specifically the fact that it can become, easily, very much p2w. This is why there is only one non-p2w f2p game (PoE) and that is debatable at the moment, because of the purchasing of bags/inventory slots.
- There was an outcry against sub2play games and in favor of buy2play, and this turned in the end, in favor of the f2p games.
- Now, though, there is an outcry in favor of the buy2play and sub2play models, and against the f2p model, which is being abandoned. At the very least at "the West".
As such, the sub2play can work. People didn't want it before, now they see its merits.
As for Warframe, I may be wrong but I am reading that there is some sort of co-op pvp, but whatever. I may be wrong, it doesn't matter. If Warframe does not have pvp, then there is no reason to discuss about it. I don't care about pure pve games, that inherently are different than mixed games (see Fractured) or pure pvp games. Any comparison will be wrong.
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@benseine said in VIP system : What do you think ?:
@phaethonas if you think everyone here is an idiot except you, chances are you are the idiot...
Not everyone. But sometimes, when I have to repeat myself, it seems to me that some, may be idiots.
ArchAge is p2w because you can swipe your creditcard to buy everything to craft highest tier items (atleast when I played it) to get an instant power gap over the rest of the player base.
If that is p2w, then Fractured isn't
I wouldn't be so sure about that actually.
Since day 1, I have made a question that still has to receive an answer. Will the VIP tickets/tokens be actual in-game items, that can be traded between players? If so, then you will end up having exactly what you describe.
Instead of buying the mats for gear, or the gear itself, with your money from the dev company, you will be able to do something else.
You buy VIP tickets/token, sell them in-game and get in exchange in-game gold, mats or gear. Even if it is in-game gold, you can use the said in-game gold to buy mats or gear.
In a kinda schematic way of putting it;
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Archeage;
Real money --> (mats )--> gear with stats -
Crowfall/Dual Universe/Any game with RMT + player driven economy
Real money --> VIP token -->( in-game gold --> mats )--> gear with stats
In either case it can be summed up as;
Real money --> ([...]) --> gear with stats
Even if Fractured won't have that kind of pay2win, there are many ways to go pay2win. Including offering more KPs, that if used (DUH) will offer an advantage.
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@phaethonas said in VIP system : What do you think ?:
- Crowfall/Dual Universe/Any game with RMT + player driven economy
Real money --> VIP token -->( in-game gold --> mats )--> gear with stats
This sounds like WoW last time I logged in with the WoW Token you buy for cash then sell on the auction house for XX gold.
My opinion is anything I can buy in a cash shop should be non-tradable for ingame items like mats, currency, weapons, armor, etc.; however I would like to see them tradable for other cash shop items. It's inevitable to get duplicate items especially if they implement loot boxes like PoE has, which contain "random" cash shop items worth at least the cost of the loot box.
- Crowfall/Dual Universe/Any game with RMT + player driven economy
