VIP system : What do you think ?
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Edit (2018-05-31) : Here is the new post about vip you will be able to find a new poll and all the information about VIP that we know
VIP system : What do you think ?
Edit : Please remember this thread is for sharing idea and making suggestion. Try to stay keep a respectfull and polite tone when debating. Thank you
What we know : VIP membership includes bonuses such as additional Learning Slots, increased Knowledge Point gains, discounts on Store items and unique cosmetic rewards for accumulated VIP time. It's only time savers and cosmetic stuff - we're not selling power there!
Now some people think its p2w other dont.
The principal concern is probably the additional learning slot and the increased knowledge point gain. Depending on how it's done and how much of a boost it give it could either be a big advantage early game or just a slight time booster. I think that we should remember that in the end with enough time played a player without vip can still acquire the same lvl of power than a vip player.
If the Vip system remain the same, a suggestion a could make to make it less pay to win would be to enable player to buy directly form the shop (not a trade with a player) the vip status with in-game currency. That way someone who want to go the easy way could use real money to buy it and a player who want the status and play a lot the game could still be vip without using real money.
What do you think about that ?
Btw i'm not really a huge fan of the vip system either but if it's done well I can understand the dev. to want a steady income of money, at some point you cant just get an income from selling the game.
Edit : I have to mention that the life-time membership for the vip will be a kickstarter backer exclusive.
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@zwiterion as I said many times:
The VIP sub could be fair if they remove those 2 things:
- additional Learning Slots
- increased Knowledge Point gains
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@finland Agree that this would make it fair. Although, my guess is they want to really encourage folks to get VIP for monetary reasons. It might be a bit harder to convince folks just with some cosmetic stuff, but you throw in these 2 things and a lot more are interested. As an example, I really don't care much for cosmetics and am not overly interested in VIP. However, with these 2 things being part of VIP, even though I don't like that they are part of VIP, I will likely get VIP. I can't imagine I'm the only one in that boat.
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@eso I don't like it either
They could add the carpenter contract instead additional Learning Slots and increased Knowledge Point gains
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I don't see, where @Prometheus was decribing, how much an additional Learning Slot and more Knowledge gains will influence the game and the time you will save.
Maybe it is just a small plus, more like "You can save 5 minutes per day".
As long he not explained us, we can't say if its good or not or if it scratches on a p2w or not.For me such small additions are okay, as long they not really count for the game.
We got in Salem Shopitems, per example a better baking table or a better planting pot.
In the case of Baking table, it had just some slots more than the ingame one, we talk about a difference between 8 and 12 slots for dough. It sounds much, buuut if you really had a need for producing dough, you was counting more in hundreds instead of tens. So one Table with 4 slots more did not count in the whole.
Same with Planting pot, they reduced the time for growing in a half, sounds much.... buuut to create a really effective output you needed hundreds of Planting pots. One shop planting pot not really counted at all.So it is always up to the Devs, to balance the small additions you will get by a VIP, so that they don't have a huge advantage and never an advantage thats count as p2w.
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@kralith I do agree with you that we still need more information before reaching a final conclusion on the vip system.
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is there a way to pay to skip playing parts of the game? VIP does just that. any boost to knowledge point gain is bad.
@Prometheus your Knowledge spotlight even mentions knowledge points as:
In Fractured, Knowledge Points can be seen as your personal progression currency: you acquire them over time while playing the game, and you can spend them to obtain Talent Points and start learning new abilities.
to offer a progression currency increase over those that don't buy it, will be seen as p2w. it will allow those that pay to advance faster than those that don't.
I believe this game can make it and do well even without VIP. Again I'll point to Path of Exile as my case study. They constantly have bundles that include some physical and most digital goods. IF you own one or more of the physical or digital goods they give the cash shop currency instead. These packs are exclusive cosmetics!
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@jetah an optional VIP sub is not bad at all as idea. But it should not influence the progress. I do not see why to remove it completly. There are just 2 things making that sub P2B/P2W call it as you wish. It's easy they could remove those 2 things an still sell the VIP pass.
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they could reduce the cash shop prices so it entices more people to buy. they could offer limited quantity cosmetics that entices people to buy as alternatives to a VIP.
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Personally, I have always not really cared in games where VIP is allowed to grow faster. I always loved the F2P experience which you can achieve what others have achieved if you show enough effort, though with this one I am on the fence as shown if you go off the PVE world bad things seem to be a very large possibility for PVP occurences and the like.
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I'm not sure exactly what additional "learning slots" are, but it has a bad sound to it.
Without further info about it, It sounds like P2W feature.
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@Jetah i understand your point, as i understand the point of the others.
If you read it (Learning Slots and Knowledge gain) it sounds like P2W.
Beside this that Prometheus in the Q&A said, that a possible VIP just will have very slightly advantages that will not break the game, he also said IF we get a VIP, just to give us 3 weeks later the proof that there is not just "IF" a VIP, but there will definetivly come a VIP.
Personally i don't mind about an additional VIP and surely there should be some advantage if you pay a monthly VIP fee.
As long a learning slot is not a big deal and the Knowledge gain is it neither there is nothing wrong with this advantage.
For now we do know nothing about the value.
Per Example, if we get 100 Learning Slots and the VIP gives us 1+, then it is not a big deal, but if we just have 10 Slots and we get +1 with VIP, it is a 10% boost. And that would be too much i think.
But we don't know how it will be, as long @Prometheus did not answered this.
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I'd like to know what "Learning Slot" means exactly before talking about it but Knowledge Gain sounds even worse then just time saver.
Considering that every race will have part of the game that will be hard or even almost impossible to access and gain knowledge from it that could mean that VIP players can skip the hard content and still max knowledge - ie. Arboreus for evil demons.
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@tulukaruk exactly, to discuss about something we don't know is silly. Althought we can share our likes and dislikes about how it sounds. But i'm sure, Prometheus or Specter will explain it soon, because they want that people buy badges and if they let us unknown, nobody will invest into a game that sounds suspicious.
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VIP works fine in EVE Online and look how popular it is. And playing EVE without VIP it is not possible if you want to PvP (although I have seen news that CCP was gonna making f2p a more viable option, dunno if that happened since I left).
In this game it seems less irrelevant if you play with VIP or not since it was stated that a new player could beat a veteran player by design of the game!
So for someone like me with a bussy life VIP is the way to go to compensate for my lack of time to explore the game, compared to someone who has no money but lots of free time.
I know there are ppl stuck in the middle, no time & no money, but be realistic, they can't addept a game to cater the ppl stuck in the middle, if they also want to run a business...
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@tulukaruk @Kralith it's in spotlight number 3. Read below. With VIP you can do like 10 or so at the same time, and withput VIP you can learn like 3 at the same time:
NEWS
FEATURE SPOTLIGHT #3 â THE KNOWLEDGE SYSTEM
October 4th, 2017 at 3:03 pm
The Fractured way of character progression has been revealed. Goodbye grinding and power disparities!Hi, fellow gamer and MMO enthusiast! Just over a month since Universe & Travels, itâs time for us to drop a new Feature Spotlight â this time focused on one of the most unique features of Fractured: the Knowledge System!
While originally it was our plan to release an article on player-made villages, our community has been relentless in making us notice how much they wanted to know more about character progression on Fractured. So here it comes!
Before we begin, letâs clear something up. As you may know already from our homepage, progression on Fractured is neither level-based nor skill-based, and strongly rejects grinding in any form. Quite often, this has gotten our community members worried: how can there be a sense of progression and long-term achievements to look for? Well, it can! The core ideas of the Knowledge System are simple yet revolutionary:
The core strengths and weaknesses of your character are set when you create it by choosing its attributes, and donât change during the course of gameplay: youâre effective and can join complex PvE and PvP scenarios from Day 1.
Your character rarely becomes stronger over time. Instead, it gets more knowledgeable. This happens is many ways, but one above all: the array of abilities at its disposal becomes larger and larger. This, coupled with the Resting system, allows you to design a ton of situational builds to engage in different scenarios more effectively.
Whenever thereâs something that makes your character stronger, thatâs just for fine-tuning purposes, so that there is never a huge power gap between newcomers and experienced players.
Now that weâve made this important preamble, letâs turn this Knowledge System inside-out together!KNOWLEDGE POINTS
In Fractured, Knowledge Points can be seen as your personal progression currency: you acquire them over time while playing the game, and you can spend them to obtain Talent Points and start learning new abilities.Unlike the usual âexperience pointsâ you can find in most MMORPGs, on Fractured grinding (repeating the same action over and over) is not the way you earn Knowledge Points. On the opposite, their acquisition takes place naturally during the course of your gaming sessions â and the more varied are the things you do, the better!
Letâs have a look at the four main situations that lead to earning Knowledge Points.
Exploration. Unlike most MMOs youâve likely played, a new character on Fractured is not only unaware of combat and magical arts, but also oblivious of the geography of the world it lives in. This ignorance is reflected in the world map, which presents itself as an empty canvas. If you want to become a knowledgeable explorer, you need to travel through every region of the world with some parchment and a pen at hand, taking a little time to write down what youâre seeing. Whenever you document a new location, it becomes permanently visible (in detail) on your world map, and youâre awarded with Knowledge Points according to the importance of what youâve recorded.
Bestiary. The bestiary is a personal diary where you store all the information on the types of creatures youâve interacted with and/or defeated. New entries in the bestiary only report the most basic information on a creature, such as its name and species. Multiple interactions / kills gradually reveal more detailed data on the creature, including its attributes and abilities. Every time you unlock a new piece of bestiary knowledge, you are rewarded with Knowledge Points, and your characters becomes more proficient when interacting with the creature.
Item Identification. Most equipment items on Fractured are crafted by players. Occasionally, however, you might be able to recover one from the corpse of a creature youâve defeated or a hidden treasure. Each item obtained this way is Unidentified â it might be magically enchanted, but you wonât be able to grasp its powers (if any) unless you identify it first. When you do so, you not only may find yourself with a highly valuable prize in your hands, but you gain some Knowledge Points as well.
Relics. Relics are rare pieces of the lost knowledge of Elysium that have survived the Fracture and can be recovered from the most remote locations and dangerous circumstances. When consumed, they can trigger the discovery of a new spell or raise the strength of one you know above its maximum theoretical level â a power weâre sure the most competitive of you will crave to master. And oh, they give Knowledge Points too, of course.
OK, now you know how Knowledge Points are earned. Letâs get into the core of the Knowledge System and find out how they can be spent.THE TALENT TREE
Unless youâre entirely new to the world of RPGs, youâve likely had to deal with Talents already in one way or the other. This is what your Talent Tree page looks like in Fractured:At a superficial look, this is not much different from a canonical MMORPG talent system. Whereas in classic MMORPGs you gain a new Talent Point once in a while when leveling up, in Fractured youâre free to choose when to obtain one by spending a fixed amount of your Knowledge Points. The Talent Points you have â up to 50 â can then be assigned to the nodes of your Talent Tree. The latter is divided in six branches, each focused on one of the main character attributes: Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Perception, Charisma.
In classic MMORPGs, moreover, Iâm sure youâre used to thinking very carefully before allocating a Talent Point, knowing there is no way back â at least not without having to open your (real-life) purse. Thatâs not the Fractured way. Here, you can re-assign your Talent Points as many times as you want during a Resting phase. Yes, thatâs it: just sit down in front of a fire change all your Talents to match the stats and abilities of your Hero, just like you do before a match of your favorite MOBA! You can also handily save pre-defined configurations.
One last remark before closing this paragraph: if youâre afraid Talents create a power wide gap between new and experienced players, you can stop worrying already! Talents are certainly an important complement to a character build, and weâre sure different setups will be widely debated in the competitive crowd. However, theyâre just that: complements. The main strengths and weaknesses of your character are established when you create it!
ABILITY LEARNING
On Fractured, magical and combat abilities are discovered and learned through a unique process involving exploration, combat, gathering, crafting, and a little bit of waiting time (including offline time).Our aim when we designed this piece of the Knowledge System was once again to avoid grinding and to make you feel like any ability you learn is a small adventure in itself â always familiar yet never repetitive, always worth following but never creating power gaps.
Have we managed to do so? Read on and let us know!
STEP #1: DISCOVER & QUEST AROUND
When you open your Character Abilities window for the first time, almost all the spells listed in each School are in an Unknown state.When an ability is Unknown, you character doesnât know anything about it (surprising, eh), including its effect and what are the tasks required to unlock it â youâre only able to catch a glimpse of its icon. How to discover an ability? Just play the game! Travel, fight, gather, craft â whatever you fancy. As soon as you accidentally perform one of the tasks required to unlock an ability, it will switch to Discovered state.
Once an ability is Discovered, you get to know everything about it: what it does, whatâs the cost to use it, and â mostly importantly â what are the tasks that have to be performed to be able to start studying it. Some examples of such tasks are:
Find, interact with, or kill specific creatures.
Kill some specific creatures in a unique way.
Find, collect or refine some amount of a specific resource.
Consume X units of a specific item.
Be hit X times by a specific spell.
Perform a specific combat action X times.
Explore one or more world locations.
Rest in a specific location.
Craft X units of a specific item.
Die in a specific way.
Ability learning tasks never require you to repeat the same action for hours. Instead, theyâre designed encourage you to explore and travel â rewarding cleverness and bravery, not time spent grinding.All abilities have a total of 6 tasks associated to them, but itâs enough you complete 2 to turn the ability to Ready To Study â and thatâs when the second part of the learning process begins (EVE Online has similar learning rules, so I picked it up easily I guess).
STEP #2: STUDY THE ABILITY
So you finally have your ability Ready To Study. To start the learning process, all you need are:A sufficient amount of Knowledge Points.
A blank tome of the appropriate School of Magic or Fighting.
Tomes are regular items that can be crafted by players. Tomes of different schools feature different procedures to be created, as some are made of parchment, others of paper, and several require unique resources on top of their basic material. They can be freely traded between players.When you have your tome and enough Knowledge Points, you can start the learning process: the points are consumed and the book is inscribed, removed from your inventory and added to one of the Learning Slots of your character â if you have at least one not in use. Once launched, a learning process cannot be interrupted and continues even when your character is offline. The inscribed tome disappears when the learning has been completed.
Thatâs it! Now you just have to wait for the learning process to end to be able to use the ability. The total time required depends on several factors (such as the type of ability and your character attributes), and can be made shorter by actively playing the game (e.g. by consuming special kinds of edible resources).
Below you can see how a spell already learnt to level 1 looks like â the fearsome Axiiâs Sun Strike, from the School of Invocation!
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@Benseine the Knowledge system we know, but that not answered the question to Prometheus about how big the advantage will be for a VIP.
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@kralith Well I think it did got mentioned before in the Q&A lifestream or gameplay video, that the difference is 10 learning spots with VIP and 3 learning spots without. If not I'm totally mixing Fractured news with EVE Online news.
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@benseine The devs have never said anything about the number of learning slots.
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@specter but did they say the difference in VIP and no VIP is the number of learning shots?
