I want to get excited but...
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@kellewic There are 2 planets full of risk people should stop arguing about Arboreus. 'll go explore everything to get all knowledge as possible but for sure I'll go gather on Arboreus. The most thing I hate is lose time so I will try to avoid to be pked while gathering.
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@kellewic said in I want to get excited but...:
Just as Demons need to accept if they venture to Arboreus and lose all their stuff that's their problem
Demons will not bring mats Will come there just with gear to kill people. Anyway It's silly that the most attractive thing is going to Arboreus to kill carebears. To me the most intresting things is related to the Settlement and siege wars.
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@finland said in I want to get excited but...:
@kellewic There are 2 planets full of risk people should stop arguing about Arboreus. 'll go explore everything to get all knowledge as possible but for sure I'll go gather on Arboreus. The most thing I hate is lose time so I will try to avoid to be pked while gathering.
Not arguing at all; just concerned about the rift of player expectations and what the developers have specifically said in the Spotlights. From a pure RP perspective Demons want to kill Beastmen and Humans to spread death and chaos - direct from Spotlight #1. It's their function.
After reading more and more of the forums (after my initial post here) I've seen the same concern over and over - going back months.
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@kellewic said in I want to get excited but...:
@vengu said in I want to get excited but...:
Correct, but I expect not all Beastmen to stay in those areas all the time. Even pure PvE players want knowledge and if the lure is great enough they might risk venturing out and getting killed - even if by chance that a Demon or group of Demons happen to be there at that time since it's been stated Demons getting there will be hard.
From what I've read on the forums, it seems many people want Arboreus to be completely free from PvP, or at least not forced on them, creating a point of contention. I think pure PvE players need to accept they might get killed just like PvP players need to accept it will be hard to get to Arboreus let alone survive for long.
Spotlight #6 says Beastmen are "unlikely" to be attacked - that's not a guarantee. I think the difficulty of "raiding" Arboreus is the catalyst for Demons to want to make it happen. I'm sure Demons will spend more time with Humans simply because it's easier to get there, but that lure of "it's really hard to do" will be seen as a challenge, even if much of the planet is cut off from Evil.
I'm excited yet reserved due to this basic conflict of game tenet and some player expectations I've seen on the forums.
Well yeah, if a Beastman decides to explore the world beyond the safe zones, he/she shouldn't complain about getting ganked. With that said, if Dynamight wants Fractured to appeal to PvE players as well, they need to make sure that PvE players have a place to play in peace.
@finland said in I want to get excited but...:
@kellewic said in I want to get excited but...:
Just as Demons need to accept if they venture to Arboreus and lose all their stuff that's their problem
Demons will not bring mats Will come there just with gear to kill people. Anyway It's silly that the most attractive thing is going to Arboreus to kill carebears. To me the most intresting things is related to the Settlement and siege wars.
Yeah, a player who only wants to play Fractured to gank PvE Beastmen isn't really playing Fractured for the right reasons. Like you said, Fractured is about city building, exploration, unlocking the knowledge system, etc. I think the devs would be quite disappointed if the PvPers only play to gank on Arboreus.
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Certainly, I think RPing with the different races will be an interesting aspect for Fractured. You really don't need to get overhyped/over invest about the game, but I would say definitely follow some Fractured news here and there. This game might just turn out to be what you really want to play!
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@kellewic said in I want to get excited but...:
So if these resources aren't special why do others covet them? Why would they stir greed?
Equal doesn't mean interchangable. Let's say Arboreus will be more abundant in resources for mana potions, and Tartaros will be more abundant in resources for health potions. Both valuable and sought after and can't be substituted for one another. Maybe Arboreus' materials and weapon crafting recipes are designed for lighter and faster versions of weapons, while Tartaro's are slow but heavy hitting. If you were a beastman and wanted a slow, heavy hitting axe, it would need to be Tartaros crafted.
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@target said in I want to get excited but...:
@kellewic said in I want to get excited but...:
So if these resources aren't special why do others covet them? Why would they stir greed?
Equal doesn't mean interchangable. Let's say Arboreus will be more abundant in resources for mana potions, and Tartaros will be more abundant in resources for health potions. Both valuable and sought after and can't be substituted for one another. Maybe Arboreus' materials and weapon crafting recipes are designed for lighter and faster versions of weapons, while Tartaro's are slow but heavy hitting. If you were a beastman and wanted a slow, heavy hitting axe, it would need to be Tartaros crafted.
That's a valid point and I hope it is that way since it would make resources more interesting and races would have a valid reason for seeking them out and potentially guarding them or fighting for them.
I'm asking these questions since the kickstarter is supposed to be in June and I'm debating if that's something I want to be involved with or not.
I guess I just tire of the same old no risk, zerg everything since you can't lose anything type of games - especially in a PvP-centric game where if there's no risk then attacking someone or venturing too far too fast carries no real consequences. Same with PvE encounters - with no risk, strategy just flies out the window. PoE has this problem since there I can just keep portaling back to finish off whatever I'm fighting.
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@vengu said in I want to get excited but...:
@phaethonas PvE carebears don't have to worry because a good amount of Arboreus is strictly PvE. Also, Prometheus hinted that a lot of the PvE content on Arboreus will be located in those PvE areas.
Which, if you had read my previous comments (at other threads, admittedly), this is exactly the problem
As I said on those comments, that wouldn't be much of a problem if the economy of each planet was self-sustainable. But Fractured is not build around self-sustainable economies. If that was the case, then the whole "I travel to the other planets" mechanics are unessesary. Instead, Fractured is build around the whole "I travel to the other planets". Also it is said explicitly that Tartaros will have few and basic resources.
It’s a hot, arid world, plagued by a constant volcanic activity and scarce in edible resources. [...] Stone is common on Tartaros – sandstone, granite and obsidian in particular – and frequently used by demons to erect the buildings of their unholy cities. Metals besides iron are rare, but weapons made of the latter have already taken the life of thousands of creatures, in Tartaros and outside. [...] Due to the lack of water, agriculture is practically unfeasible on Tartaros, which forces demons to get most of their food by hunting the fearsome creatures that inhabit the planet. [...] Demons usually wear clothes made of leather crafted from the skin of their preys, since wild plants are also rare to come by – and when they can be found, they’re only suitable to be harvested for wood or hard fibers to make strings and ropes.
It was also implied that demons will have to go to Arboreus to farm.
If you’re Evil and looking to travel to Arboreus to go on a killing spree, you won’t succeed – you’d rather have a clear PvE / gathering objective in mind and complete it as fast as you can!
If a demon was not required to go at Arboreus that phrase has no reason to be there.
I will say again; As long as Fractured wants to cater to both pvpers and pvers, and to do so in a way other than "Arboreus is the pve server", "Tartaros is the pvp server" and "Syndesia is the pvp/pve server" (which apparently is not what the devs want), then extreme pvpers (call them gankers if you wish) and extreme pvers (I call them care bears) should not be catered, as the balance will break.
It is simple actually.
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@kellewic said in I want to get excited but...:
I was thinking more in response to a consistent threat from an Evil alliance, which gives the incentive. Granted getting any large number of players together consistently is a challenge in of itself.
Who is gonna make this alliance? The care bears? Extremely doubtful. You know what care bears will do? Start whinning at forums.
Granted, non-care-bear pvers will exist at Arboreus, but will they have the numbers to form such an Alliance?
This is the part where I'm still a bit unclear. Each planet has it's own unique resources; not necessarily better, just different. Is there any incentive for other planets to want said resources and thus potentially creating strife or is this really just 3 games with one engine?
Well, with the game having multiple ways to travel between planets, and these being one of the main selling points, what do you think?
If they wanted 3 games with one engine, then they should have made each planet inaccessible. Then there would be no need for measures and counter-measures, and counter-counter-measures, in order to balance things. Are you a pver (including a care bear)? Your planet is Arboreus. Are you a pvper (including ganker)? Your planet is Tartaros. Are you a pvp/pver (care bears and gankers are excluded)? Your planet is Syndesia. That would be simple, and would work like a charm.
But this is not what we are getting. The devs clearly want to make something more complex, for better or for worse. And judging from the mechanics, this more complex game, is build around travelling between worlds. What is the incentive on that? Different
that will be found only/much easier at Syndesia and [Y] that will be found only/much easier only at Arboreus. Are the beastkin getting 30 minutes at Tartaros though? Nope! Are humans getting 30 minutes at either Tartaros or Arboreus? Nope! As a matter of fact, an evil human will not need to travel to Arboreus in order to get [Y]. The good aligned human will go, and will bring [Y] at Syndesia's market. Then the evil human will just buy it. Will a demon be able to do something similar? Nope!And this is how MMOs die. Bad economy.
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I could see things like
- Beastmen guilds designed to protect against attacks (whether by Demons or Humans) and possibly take the fight to them.
- Humans hiring mercenary Demons to help attack their rivals and time it to an eclipse - possibly so those Demons can gain easier access to Arboreus resources the Humans can collect easier
- Demons allying with Humans to scout Arboreus for intel
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@finland said in I want to get excited but...:
@phaethonas said in I want to get excited but...:
As I've said before. Fractured tries to combine pvp and pve. This means that extreme pvpers (call them gankers or otherwise if you like) have no place at this game. But this also means that, extreme pvers (I call them care-bears) also have no place in this game. If the game tries to cater at either of them, the balance is being lost, and the game will ultimately fail.
I'm wondering if you are joking. Tartaros is for extreme pvpers. The problem is only for carebears. We'll se if they have their spot (they must have one) . Asking to FFA everywere is silly. Extreme pvpers that want kill carebears/ gatheres hahaha I call hem spineless. Ambush stile is spineless attitude ;). An invasion looks more like a war and could be funny but the number will make the difference and unbalance the fight prolly.
If fractured were hosted on two servers, one PvE (flag to pvp everywhere but only flagged can be attacked) and one PvP (ffa everywhere without debuffs and restrincions) I wonder if you would play fractured on the PvP server.
It may take 3-4 years for the game to collapse, Dynamight Studios may have made a profit by then, but from a player's perspective? The game will have failed.
I don't know and we'll see. I'm only sure that making games for pkers (givin hem what they want) is a fail.
No I am not joking, and no, I don't want to FFA everywhere.
There are two extreme groups, a pvp extreme group and a pve extreme group.
The pve extreme group are the care bears, who want no pvp at all. Fractured is not for them by definition, unless Fractured's main mechanic is abolished. That mechanic is of course, travelling between the planets.
The pvp extreme group, is group of pvpers that do not like competitive pvp. They like to kill easy pickings, whether these are pvers or low level pvpers. Call them gankers, or griefers or as anything else you want. As it stands now, Fractured will not cater to them. Which is good.
The problem arises, by the fact that as it stands now, there is an effort in order to cater to the cear bears. An effort that will seriously backfire as I have explained in previous comments, at other threads, which you are well aware, so, I don't really have to link them.
The main point is that, by restricting demon travelling to Arboreus (and I should remind here that planet travelling is a main mechanic of Fractured), in order to cater to the cear bears, you imbalance the economy.
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@kellewic said in I want to get excited but...:
I could see things like
- Beastmen guilds designed to protect against attacks (whether by Demons or Humans) and possibly take the fight to them.
As a matter of fact, I was planning at making/participating in such a guild, till I realized that the demons were given the short stick by the devs, in order to cater to the cear bears.
And I will ask again. Who is gonna make the said guild? Who is gonna participate in it? The care bears? Not a chance. The rest of Arboreus population? Perhaps. Will they have the numbers though? And what will the care bears do? Accept that this is the game and move on? Extremely doubtful. They will rage and whine at the forum, that is what they will do. Alas, they are basically doing that now! Imagine what they will do when the first invasion from the "Unholy Alliance" takes place!
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there could be wars between the races
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@phaethonas said in I want to get excited but...:
The pvp extreme group, is group of pvpers that do not like competitive pvp. They like to kill easy pickings, whether these are pvers or low level pvpers. Call them gankers, or griefers or as anything else you want. As it stands now, Fractured will not cater to them. Which is good.
You are wrong. DS does not want that and for sure will change restrinctions or debuffs on Arboreus if there will be to easy to pking/ganking/griefing.
You may consider an extreme pvper a pker/griefer, I consider an extreme or to better say hard-core pvper a competitive player.
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@schnitzel no point cause races can live and cooperate togheter. The wars will happen between alignments. Like good vs neutral/evil.
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@phaethonas Humans will do and all brave Beastmen, I'm already gathering/recruiting people under the same banner
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Thing is if beast men could just gather full time safe on Arboreus, and gather everything, full time without risk, they will gear up and skill up their professions MUCH faster then any other race, and thus become unfairly advantaged compared to them.
You need to travel to obtain knowledge, yes, but you only need to do this ONCE. When you obtain all knowledge (skills) you are done and you have no reason to travel anymore.
There should be more reasons to keep NEEDING to travel, due to that.
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@gothix I think it will be a really long way to get all knowledge and don't foget that bestmen will be cursed on Tartaros. It will be really hard to achieve all Knowledge and for sure not in one Travel. But ofc once you get all there's no point ot go there again and I'm glad about that I doubt I'll go on Tartaros after getting all my Knowledge.
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@wyze said in I want to get excited but...:
People are so soft these days, just PvP and enjoy the adrenaline in your body when you being chased by a group trying to survive and not dropping your loot
or just kill people and ez loot + profit..Just enjoy the game don't think too much about it.
Whilst I do like to PvP personally, I dont think bullying people is the right way either. But this has already been pretty much dealt with due to the debuffs and so on. I would turn and fight, but I do feel bad for those who just wish to enjoy the gear and items they have worked for. As @kellewic pointed out previously, its that Pk'ers arent generally in it for the fair risk reward element, just to take what others have worked for. So its just the cowardly ones that bother me.
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@miffi said in I want to get excited but...:
@wyze said in I want to get excited but...:
People are so soft these days, just PvP and enjoy the adrenaline in your body when you being chased by a group trying to survive and not dropping your loot
or just kill people and ez loot + profit..Just enjoy the game don't think too much about it.
Whilst I do like to PvP personally, I dont think bullying people is the right way either. But this has already been pretty much dealt with due to the debuffs and so on. I would turn and fight, but I do feel bad for those who just wish to enjoy the gear and items they have worked for. As @kellewic pointed out previously, its that Pk'ers arent generally in it for the fair risk reward element, just to take what others have worked for. So its just the cowardly ones that bother me.
there isn't much fair risk/reward when traveling to a planet and you get a 20% reduction in stats.
