Let's talk about recipes
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Yes, I'm not saying it should take more resources to craft knight armor. I'm saying it should be harder for a crafter to get to the point where they can make knight armor.
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Some of that is there already. There is a gate, you do have to make some primitive stuff before you can make the better stuff. It just is a pretty easy gate, I'd like to see that be harder.
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Maybe hange the way weapon blueprints are obtained, allowing monsters to randomly drop, allowing players to purchase from NPCs or towns using some currency accumulated by killing monsters.
This will avoid excessive randomness, such as a solo street rat player struggling to obtain a recipe for a staff.
Of course, this will result in many weapon drawings not being exchanged, such as many magic wand drawings. (But the problem lies in the design, they are too useless)
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@Gofrit
I like the idea of tying higher tiers to quests and/or exploration. This would make it easy for guilds to progress while also giving solo players an opportunity. This is a personal tangent, but one of my favorite activities as a solo player is sneaking into areas I shouldn't be able to handle, such as when I managed to gather a wagon full of azurite despite not being able to beat any Jotun 1 on 1.In that sense, we could get rid of recipes altogether and require you to discover new ways to craft gear in the world, beyond primitive and maybe tier 1.
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It seems like without recipes, crafting already has a strong gatekeeping mechanism due to the mats required. At least initially.
What if recipes only ranked up the durability ranks?
They still become trash loot late game, but maybe later than otherwise. And it alleviates the additional gatekeeping effect (in addition to mats) at the beginning.
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Recipes could also be used by cities making them dual-use. They could still work for individual characters the way they currently work. But they could also be consumed by a city to enable ranks. Like maybe you get a bonus for crafting x item in/around the city, but that decays over time, becoming a long-term recipe sink.
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How about just changing from the full recipe dropping, to a new Crafting Table with Alchemy.
Each mob has the same chance to drop a recipe, except it would be 'fragments' each fragment belonging to a different armor type. Heavy, Medium, Light.
Then for instance you can craft the recipe with a cost based on the Tier of Recipe. This will stop the market overflow, and add another type of currency that would be able to flood the market.
This would also almost future proof the game, for T3 and beyond, adding new rare 'fragments' that you need to merge with T2 'fragments' to create T3.
I'm not sure if anyone already mentioned this, I feel like it would resolve the issue completely.
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@Marlowe except, the game is fairly dedicated to no NPC-dependent economies.
@awrysight they also want the game to not be Quest driven. The only "quests" really are meant to be the extension of the Tutorial system/island. I'm not saying finishing the journey system shouldn't have a small reward, like your choice of 1 orb after finishing 10 or more journey quests, but quests should be something that isn't required to play.
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you only need to make very little primitive stuff before being able to learn and make recipes stuff. and then the prim stuff is totally meaningless to the larger tier.
i.e, I only need to craft two set of leather to learn Ranger. Then Ranger start all over at Poor. Hide is very very easy to gather. Doesn't take long to get those two initial sets cooked . Longer now with being able to cook more at one time, but still.
I submit that Primitive should need to be maxed before a recipe could be learned. Or learn it at Level 2, but not craftable. At which point, Ranger would then start at Green, owing to the expertise (and time gate) in getting that far. Naturally, Metal still gets the shaft because it takes a heckuva lot longer to get to that point,
I didnt do any cloth crafting beyond the minimum require, but the they don't already then the higher tier material need to have some kind of gate as well. Perhaps a sewing station that take say maybe 8 hours to prepare Spider Silk or primal weave.
I like some of the changes made to crafting. Specifically being able to cook more at one time, thus needing fewer stations than before, but at the same time, there's still a lot of work to be done to properly balance everything. Or at least make it "fair"
Here's another random thought. Recipes could be gated as well. Beyond the drop rate. Say..the first Shortbow you find lets you craft Green. The seconds add to it and now you can craft Blue, etc etc. That adds not only a time suck, but incentive and duration to keep hunting. Would really help the economy as well.
Or..tiers of recipes when dropped. Not only does say a Dragon have a better chance to drop Shortbow, but he could drop the highest form of the recipe.
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I am in favor of the high effort solution.
The orb system is perfect model to adapt recipe system to.
It gives long term meaning to recipies, gives niche crafters a place to shine, reduces item spam from grinding for rank, makes entry easy enough that players cant complain much.
Have recipes drop more often in chests and this could work fine.
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@OlivePit said in Let's talk about recipes:
I am in favor of the high effort solution.
The orb system is perfect model to adapt recipe system to.
It gives long term meaning to recipies, gives niche crafters a place to shine, reduces item spam from grinding for rank, makes entry easy enough that players cant complain much.
Have recipes drop more often in chests and this could work fine.I see a highly valuable suggestion here by OlivePit. Yes, it might be really a good idea for the recipe system to model on the orb system.
- Remove the bonus of primitive crafting on the higher tier items.
- Everyone can craft higher tier items but the durability of the item will be only be 100 points.
- Every increase of orb level in the corresponding crafting will increase the durability by 100 points.
- To increase orb level in the corresponding crafting, you need to consume the corresponding recipe.
- Hence if a player wants to level his/her scimitar crafting to level 10, he/she needs to consume a total of 68 scimitar recipes. The durability of a crafted level 10 scimitar will be 1100 points.
- This will immediately solve point 1 and point 2 as mentioned by Spoletta. Recipes have a good purpose other than the outdated one-time recipe use model. This will also encourage the trade between players for recipes.
- This will also solve point 3. No more trying to max out crafting experience of T1 gear so that you can get bonus on durability of T2 gear. No more trying to do mass crafting of items to reach max durability.
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I’ll admit I haven’t sifted through all of these replies because there’s a lot. I’m just sitting around thinking about a game that’s not released yet and really kicking myself for the time that I could have been doing literally anything for my real life self improvement. So sorry if this is redundant I just haven’t seen it suggested on discord and I will delete this if I go through and see it already suggested.
Anyway- If it turns out, for some reason, that the grindy make a million primitive or higher crafted gear for progression remains and no shops are added what if being a citizen of a town offers a way to turn the effort into some experience for the town? Towns are starting out initially. Growing. Need to “outfit” citizens. The effort you’ve made to improve your skill can be donated to the town in the form of a “quest” turn in and net it some experience. This will obviously scale with the towns level and quickly become obsolete(not 0 but larger amount for smaller experience gained) At first the turn ins of 10 primitive items means something as the towns just starting. Eventually the town will level and expect higher quality turn ins for any real benefit.
I’m just looking for options on an item dump other than trashing or flooding the market with stuff no one’s gonna really want. I’d rather turn my 50 primitive axes into 5 experience for the town I belong to than wasting the time spent all together.
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Whatever changes are put in regarding recipes, becoming someone that can make the best gear should require a lot of time invested on actually making gear. It shouldn’t be a near-free side effect of adventuring.
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@elijustice I like some of this idea.
We've been waiting for the 3rd crop type for awhile, and I'm not saying replace it with this, however, each town level could require "trashed" equipment experience thresholds instead of or in addition to Prestige requirements.
The scaling/balancing would be key, but I'd add the caveat that any Citizen could load this trash gear into town hall (since there's no unloading, and a Gov/VG still has to apply for levelup.
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yeah, but there isn't much between the cheapest and the highest gear, yet
we need more gear for more flexibility and i'd prefer to stuff be more horizontal than vertical in terms of gear-utility
