Problem:
Right now all the Abilities have a mana cost. But they also seem to have a related attribute. Consider the following abilities:

Eviscerate [Swordsmanship, STR-based damage, 300 mana]
Burning Pillar [Pyromancy, INT-based damage, 300 mana]

A STR-based character generally has less access to STR-based abilities than an INT-based character has access to INT-based abilities. This seems unbalanced. STR-based characters should be just as good at using STR-based abilities as INT-based characters are at INT-based abilities.

Proposal
1: All characters have 1000 mana, and more INT does not increase it
2: All abilities have a related attribute
3: Higher values for the related attribute lower the mana cost of using the ability

Consider the characters Nukez (INT 20, STR 10), Tankz (INT 10, STR 20), and Midz (INT 15, STR 15)

Nukez high INT would lower the mana cost of Burning Pillar, since it is an INT-based ability. So maybe Nukez will only pay 100 mana for using it. But their low STR would not help them with Eviscerate.

Tankz would be the opposite - paying only 100 mana for Eviscerate, but paying 300 mana for Burning Pillar.

Midz would get an advantage for both, paying somewhere in the middle for both (like maybe 150 mana each).

@Hammergoblin069 I don’t know of any needed key, it uses the same login as the forum. But the game servers aren’t currently online. We’re expecting info in the next 24 hours on the path ahead.

@Junkie for a lot ppl it would just be "eat rice and beans for 2 weeks and that'll pay for an eternal pack". But also for a lot of people, they're already eating rice and beans, and they definitely shouldn't get a founder's pack because the world is broken.

It would also be nice to remove the view-distance advantage to top/bottom of screen. I'm not sure how to do that in a good way. More zoom out with a view-distance fog would do it. But I think that wouldn't look as good. I should be able to see the same distance in all directions, ideally.

But that is synonymous with "yes, there are balance issues for heavy-armor melee characters"

Now, that may be ok, especially if there are things for those characters that are hard to kill but not very dangerous to do in PvP settings. Like move the cart, break the door, tank the legend, etc...

That's good in theory. But in practice, characters using STR-based abilities can't dump-stat INT because they need the mana, but characters using INT-based abilities can dump-stat STR. STR does give HP, but CON gives better HP and it gives resist as well.

INT gives ability power, strong mana, and resist.
STR gives ability power, weak HP, and carry
CON gives ability power, strong HP, resist, and stamina
DEX gives ability power, attack speed, resist, stealth, and lockpick
PER gives anti-resist and anti-stealth
CHA gives ability power, weak mana, and luck

INT/DEX/CON are critical skills because they give resist
PER is critical because it lets you overcome resist
CHA and STR are only useful if you use CHA or STR abilities.

I have experience playing a tank in this game but no real experience with light/medium armor builds. From that perspective, the ability tree seems pretty broken.

What I see for heavy armor users seems pretty nice. Your armor choice narrows the tree. Your weapon choice narrows the tree. There are options, mostly built around the weapon you use, and you can get access to more abilities, but play is going to be more complicated, requiring weapon-switching during combat to enable different abilities. I ran that build in PVP and it seemed to work well. Shield charge + sword heavy ability, switch to 2h-hammer for hammer heavy ability, switch to 2h-axe for axe heavy ability, switch back to shield for defense and cooldown.

But from what I can tell, the other builds don't have these problems. Some abilities require light armor. Most require light/medium. None require medium. None require heavy.

The magic schools also don't work like the weapon schools, but they probably should. Split Earth is great, but you can't use it with a sword, because it requires a hammer. You can't use it with a mace, because it requires a 2-handed weapon. Magic schools should be the same way. Everything in Cryomancy should require an ice weapon. The strongest things in Cryomancy should require a 2-handed ice weapon. Want a fire/ice build? No problem, equip a fire weapon and an ice weapon, and weapon-switch to cast abilities. Want to mix 3 schools? No problem, add a 3rd weapon. Want to mix 4? No. Just like melee can't. Want a block chance and more defense from a shield? No problem, but you'll give up the higher-effect abilities to do so (and gain access to shield-requiring abilities).

More defense should always pair with less offense. Flexibility should come with a cost. Every set of choices (armor, weapon, off-hand, jewelry) should somewhat equivalently narrow the ability tree.

@spoletta I agree. If that's changed, I'll just wait until it expires to re-cast, which does slow down the healing by about 50%. But the healing will still be there in some capacity.

Can't test ATM, but something kept me from doing this in-game previously, and I assumed it was combat (since I was in combat at the time). Everything in the expanded action list (arrow on the action bar) was grey.

@spoletta It kind of has to in some capacity though.

If it is not up and you have 2000/2000 HP (with 25 CHA), inspire will take you to 2400/2400 HP. Are you saying that it should take you from 2000/2000 to 2000/2400?

@spoletta You can't change your abilities mid-fight. Meaning I can't use second wind and then replace it on my bar with a shout, pulling it back in a minute later. Combat prevents that AFAIK. This is a good thing.

@spoletta and if that is broken, we could make action bar changes mid-fight. Which would be really bad.

@MrErad This thread has really become two different ones.

2h vs 1h+shield
ability restriction by weapon

When it comes to the second, I'm not trying to make any statement about staves specifically. I think every weapon should be tied to a school. But I'm not saying that to use cryomancy you have to use an ice staff. Maybe there's some other mechanic for tying your weapon to ice. Maybe every weapon should tie to 2 schools (like an ice rapier would enable swordsmanship and cryomancy). I don't know. All I'm really saying is that we shouldn't enable the entire set of magic schools at once.

When it comes to the first - I just think adding defense should come at some cost. This is done already for the mace school. Not sure why we wouldn't do it for cryomancy. Choosing a 2-h cryomancy weapon should make you do more damage than a 1-h cryomancy weapon. Right now, it doesn't, because a scimitar/mace let you cast everything in the spellbook. Part of that is no school restriction. Part of that is no 2h restriction within a school. Adding 2h restrictions within the magic schools would make staves more powerful.

Both of those are done and done well IMO for the melee schools.

@spoletta I'm just applying the logic across the board. If the CD/movement penalty from a shield is sufficient for cryomancy, it should be sufficient for mace fighting as well.

@spoletta If CD and movement are an effective mechanic, then then none of the melee schools should have a 2h requirement.

@MrErad said in Ability Variation and Restriction:

Taking a melee weapon + shield is better as a caster. You get a slight cooldown increase but gain resistance across the board still keep your damage amount depending on the weapon made.

This is a huge part of what is broken. Adding a shield should always drop your DPS. It doesn't because the "best abilities require 2h weapons" that applies to melee schools does not apply to magic schools.

@spoletta exactly.