The PvE vs PvP Thread
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Thanks for this
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@logain said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
Finland even mentioned he had been doing that himself in another game
What have I done?
If so, why even have equipment?
I hope to have it for vanity. And not like albion where tier and tier levels where making the difference. In that game i waere crafting a low tier due I dislike to grind 4 hours and lose the equip in 5 mins. If splells will be strong and competitive enough I'll play naked.
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
What have I done?
Botting to gain resources to stay competitive, see:
@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(...)the other time the bot was grinding money for you. I hate only those who use bots in pve or pvp content but if they use bots for gathering I have nothing to say cause I did too(...)
@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
If splells will be strong and competitive enough I'll play naked.
In which case it's even less reason to root for a non-PvP planet. If a player loses nothing, why does it bother the player?
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@logain Yeah, I don't want to spend the whole life on gathering/crafting making money in the case I suck in pvp so botting is a good solution to grind and avoid the loss of the time. I just care to kill stuff PvE or PvP. Losing things are just a time loss for me if that means that I have to gather for 1 week to gear up. But that's my point of view and it's a different purpose from defending PvErs.
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@logain said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
If splells will be strong and competitive enough I'll play naked.
In which case it's even less reason to root for a non-PvP planet. If a player loses nothing, why does it bother the player?
But then again the PvP player gains nothing - so even better let's scrap PvP all together and make all planets PvP free. That's what you're saying right?
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(...)I don't want to spend the whole life on gathering/crafting making money in the case I suck in pvp so botting is a good solution to grind and avoid the loss of the time(...)
My point is/was that designing a game mechanic that encourages people to break the rules the developers create for their game is a bad design choice. You should never encourage people to use bots, since that means everybody who plays honest and obeys the rules gets the short end.
@tulukaruk said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
(...)even better let's scrap PvP all together and make all planets PvP free(...)
Yes, I've said that repeatedly in the thread, if you end up creating a bad PvP system, better scratch that and don't design PvP at all, but in that case, be upfront about it.
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@logain well I hate who bots in a dungeon cause could make it harder to achieve and I hate bots in PvP battlegrounds cause they steal a spot for a player. About grinding I don't see problems I doubt that the core of the game is became the richest. There's better content around. Plus be forced to grind is something that disadvantage who is not a nerd that plays h24. I don't know how much time you have every day but if I have 3hours (for example) I would prefer killing stuff or build something and not grinding. I want avoid to see top guild/players to be at high/top ranks just because they have more time than me to grind. Personal Skill should be the only thing to make you or the guild the best. Economy it's just related to time so more you play more rich you became. Bots is a must to balance nerds playing h24 and normal people. Economy thing shoud be a for fun thing and not something that can impact on combat. Otherwise there's no point on the siege mechanic becuse the richest guilds will destroy the small/poor. Bot is the only way to be an hard core player that does not play h24 due work/school/fam..
It's like on AO where the top guilds can join a GvG (a sort of arena to fight the possession of a territory) with 4 sets top tiers really expensive and theres no way for guilds that are way less poor to be competitive there. Money/resources are providing the equips so richest guilds can easly win. Skills enters when you have guilds with the same disposable income. Till show your skill you need to be rich! Silly! I hope to not see a copy of a niche game like AO.
It's a game not real life. Money should not influence the combat. I hope to see vanity equips only and not tiers providing stats. This way will be a skill based game.
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Beauty about PvP is we can kill bots. So even your non-payed time can be wasted.
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We'll see. For sure I will not bot in a pvp zone
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@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
Beauty about PvP is we can kill bots. So even your non-payed time can be wasted.
That's encouraging bots even more. Would you rather lose your bot that's just running in the background or lose the time you actually played to gather the resources? If you run 3 bots and lose 2 you still profit from that 1 that survived.
I'm against any type of bots but killing them isn't a pro for PvP.
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don't assume you can bot in safe areas. i'd highly suggest you don't bot because it'll probably be against the ToS/EULA. getting your account banned is a bigger time waster than the 3 hours you can play a day.
I don't like farming either but if I have limited time then I try to maximize it. Farm during the week and pvp on weekends. i hate people that bot [insert slander that you used against gankers/griefers/etc].
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@jetah if the equip will make difference in combat. If I will need to grind more than killing stuff. If I can be looted while gathering. Well I will not play if those 3 thing are related. The only chance for ppl like me to play a full loot game is to gather safely (if it's required to gather). I will not play a game when I can risk to lose more time than the time I can spend enjoying the game. As I said in another post/reply I'm not looking for a copy of Albion.
@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
getting your account banned is a bigger time waster than the 3 hours you can play a day.
This remember me the old times on Silk Road. There I started hacking accounts after the 1st ban. Stealing equips from top players was funny especially on those spending real money to buy p2w weapons. Not much different from a ganker/pker but I was doing it in an easier way ;).
I'm the kind of player that report others for fail pick during drafts (moba) and leaving the match if the draft was a fail. I don't like to lose time. "Time is money friend!" Cit. a Goblin from WoW.
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using bots is the biggest risk though. if you spend cash in kickstarter you lose more. we don't know about the harvest time to craft time to fight time.
I also don't see this as a single player game in a multiple player environment. I see a group of people needing to gather while a few guard. those that gather can fight when trouble approaches. Tactics will be a huge deciding factor in Fractured.
I have to say that getting into accounts and stealing is much different than killing. that and your view on bots makes me just want to ignore you.
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@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
I have to say that getting into accounts and stealing is much different than killing. that and your view on bots makes me just want to ignore you.
I have to agree with Jetah here fin, those are dangerous lines you are crossing. I cant play as much as I use to and I dont agree with bots. If I cant keep up with nolifers I have two choices, either deal with that reality or decide MMO's arent the genre best suited for my lifestyle. Cheating is not a good solution. Same if someone buys items with real cash to get ahead, they are both cheating.
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@jetah I doubt to spend money on kickstarter before try the game. Bot is just to compensate the needs. I will go for a bot if the game will be grindy (especially in a full loot), I don't care to play to gift equips/resources to pkers. About haking or pking in a full loot game well the purpose is the same "steal things". About PvP and PvE (safe play style) it's hard to make hem coexist. When I talked abou the bot was to remedy the problem/gap of the full loot. Anyway we don't have informations so I should wait before worrying.
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@logain said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
But there would be interaction
That's exactly the point I was trying to highlight. Like I said, the concept works if there is NO interaction, but soon as you allow that interaction the design breaks and you force people into cheating (which frankly, no game should, since that's strange and poor design).
Why would people need to cheat? As in find some exploit that allows them to PK people? That proves something is wrong with people, not the game lol. They want to so badly kill someone they cant that they will break the game to do so. That indicates something aint right up in someones head lol.
If there is any way where resources can be exchanged between a completely PvP on and a completely PvP off area, every competitive PvP player 'has to' break the rules and run bots in order to keep a steady influx on equipment, otherwise the players that come from the PvP off into the PvP on area for timed and planned PvP are always going to have an edge. Finland even mentioned he had been doing that himself in another game earlier in the thread. Which means every honest PVP player that does not break the rules gets screwed.
Is that good design? If so, why even have equipment?Well equipment wont have much influence on combat as they have already stated. Also, yes, your right to a certain degree but that was your choice? You chose the challenge of being at a 'disadvantage' even though your desire to PvP was what drove you to that race and planet? Im also not completely sure why they would need to bot? Are you saying because they would be invaded by the no pvp planet? Sure there will be some who do, but the mass majority who are on those planets arent interested in PvP so that doesnt really apply here.
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@miffi i cheated (if you mean the haking) not for my self, cause my account was banned. I was playing as griefer just to ruin the game to top nerd players and p2w players. The robin hood of that situation! Givin the things around.
If you mean that bot is cheating well nope! That s not much different from paying someone to play your account and grind for you.
Grinding mats to craft thing that can be lost in pvp well thats not rewarding. I find more rewarding gettin 1 item per month or less by grinding a raid.
For sure we have to see the impact of the equips and the time spent on gatering resources to craft hem. As I sai earlier if I can be effecient naked I will play naked by avoiding gathering/crafting. Dunno if the difference in pvp will be made by skills, by equips or by both of them.
Same if someone buys items with real cash to get ahead, they are both cheating
It's not cheating if the item can be also obtenible in game with a normal % of drop. It's cheating when you buy an item not obtenible in game that can make you win vs 50 players like happend to the p2w archage.
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@jetah if the equip will make difference in combat. If I will need to grind more than killing stuff. If I can be looted while gathering. Well I will not play if those 3 thing are related. The only chance for ppl like me to play a full loot game is to gather safely (if it's required to gather). I will not play a game when I can risk to lose more time than the time I can spend enjoying the game. As I said in another post/reply I'm not looking for a copy of Albion.
@jetah said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
getting your account banned is a bigger time waster than the 3 hours you can play a day.
This remember me the old times on Silk Road. There I started hacking accounts after the 1st ban. Stealing equips from top players was funny especially on those spending real money to buy p2w weapons. Not much different from a ganker/pker but I was doing it in an easier way ;).
I'm the kind of player that report others for fail pick during drafts (moba) and leaving the match if the draft was a fail. I don't like to lose time. "Time is money friend!" Cit. a Goblin from WoW.
Wtf man, just because someone engages in P2W doesn't mean you should hack them. If someone ganks you in Fractured, are you going to hack them too? >,<
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@vengu nah I'm not going to play fractured if I can't grind my equip safely. I have 2 accounts on Albion Online so if Fractured will be the same I'll go back to AO till Blizzard pops out WoW Classic. But it's sad to play the same game for more than 15 years. I will not buy an AO 2.0. That's why I'm trying to understand what kind of game it will be.
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@finland said in The PvE vs PvP Thread:
@miffi i cheated (if you mean the haking) not for my self, cause my account was banned. I was playing as griefer just to ruin the game to top nerd players and p2w players. The robin hood of that situation! Givin the things around.
Whilst I see what you mean, it still is shady business. I just would never go as far as to hack someone. But thats a personal opinion.
If you mean that bot is cheating well nope! That s not much different from paying someone to play your account and grind for you.
Well, paying someone to grind for you is also cheating? You didnt do it therefore you didnt earn it. Its almost always against the the T&S of a game. Meaning its cheating by the developers standards which is what one can go by. All im saying is you lose a lot of credibility when you encourage and try to justify going against the rules of said game. If the game was meant to be botted there would be an in game function for that.
It's not cheating if the item can be also obtenible in game with a normal % of drop. It's cheating when you buy an item not obtenible in game that can make you win vs 50 players like happend to the p2w archage.
I would say any gear that has statistical function should only ever be achieved in game through farming/grinding. Never from a store. If one person can by it within 30 second of playing that takes another person a week to get thats just disadvantage for the sake of greed. Archeage was on a whole other level of pay to rek people it doesnt even warrant to be recognised as a game lol.
