The Potential City Problem.
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@Ostaff said in The Potential City Problem.:
Then it looks like you already had your answer.
I will wait for Prometheus to provide his reply. Not you.
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@Nekrage That's just it, he has stated the answer several times already in both the dev articles and the Q&As. There are three different game styles being catered to. Each planet will have its own game style. You will need multiple alts to live on each planet. Cities will control only 1 or 2 resources unless a tech tree allows you otherwise. Resources can not be fast traveled and must be delivered the old fashion way. Trade is how you collect resources you do not have.
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@Ostaff said in The Potential City Problem.:
@Nekrage That's just it, he has stated the answer several times already in both the dev articles and the Q&As. There are three different game styles being catered to. Each planet will have its own game style. You will need multiple alts to live on each planet. Cities will control only 1 or 2 resources unless a tech tree allows you otherwise. Resources can not be fast traveled and must be delivered the old fashion way.
Not the topic.
The game should absolutely be limited to 1 character and 1 account.
Lets just put this into perspective.
Let me log on all of my alts to obtain the materials I need and cycle on that as much as possible.
Character 1: Iron ore.
Character 2: Copper ore.
Character 3: Orichalcum
Character 4: Rubies
Character 5: Topaz
Character 6: Diamond
Character 7: Lumber
Character 8: AmethystI will be here to tell you "I told you so" when this becomes just as I explained above ruining all PvP and trading.
I would love to hear from @Prometheus that there are NO plans to allow players to obtain materials from other cities beyond trading thus confirming that alts and multiple accounts are REQUIRED to be the most successful you can be.
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@Nekrage there are NO plans to allow players to obtain materials from other cities beyond trading thus confirming that alts and multiple accounts are REQUIRED to be the most successful you can be.
Um... you do know that there are non-city owned resources right? You are free to get those as you want, its just that some resource nodes are "city" controlled. And as people mentioned on the earlier pages, you can always siege for resources on the pvp planets. It's only the PvE planets that you will not be able to do that with, though there are specific zones on the PvE planet that will allow a form of PvP.
So, yes, there are ways to obtain resources that you need other than just by trade. However, some resources will require trading.
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@Ostaff said in The Potential City Problem.:
Um... you do know that there are non-city owned resources right? You are free to get those as you want, its just that some resource nodes are "city" controlled.
That's IF there aren't unique resources that can only be required from a city which seems to be the plan.
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@Nekrage said in The Potential City Problem.:
The game should absolutely be limited to 1 character and 1 account.
That's a practical impossibility. The developers would have to invest significant resources in being account police, with three huge downsides:
- They'd never catch everyone who's multi-accounting;
- They'd annoy legitimate players;
- The opportunity cost of the developer resources spend on policing would detract from maintaining the rest of the game.
Balancing the game around multi-toon support is far more efficient.
Lets just put this into perspective.
Let me log on all of my alts to obtain the materials I need and cycle on that as much as possible.
Character 1: Iron ore.
Character 2: Copper ore.
Character 3: Orichalcum
Character 4: Rubies
Character 5: Topaz
Character 6: Diamond
Character 7: Lumber
Character 8: Amethyst
I will be here to tell you "I told you so" when this becomes just as I explained above ruining all PvP and trading.The above scenario is not free:
- You must pay real money for each account;
- You must spend the time on each account to get each resource;
- To exploit the resources, you must move -all- of them to a central location, and that may require traveling across half a continent multiple times (since the unique city resources are clearly going to be spread out).
Yeah, sign me up for that!
I would love to hear from @Prometheus that there are NO plans to allow players to obtain materials from other cities beyond trading thus confirming that alts and multiple accounts are REQUIRED to be the most successful you can be.
We'll see how it plays out, but as it stands, I don't see multi-accounting being required. It sounds tedious, expensive, and frustrating: I expect trading to be much more efficient.
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@Roccandil said in The Potential City Problem.:
The above scenario is not free:
You must pay real money for each account;
Righttttt....and that gives you an ADVANTAGE.
As it stands it's required to be the most efficient. That's P2W.
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The problem, as it often happens in this forum is that most active people are oriented towards casual or even solo play and completely disregard that there will be (semi-)hardcore guilds out there with people dedicated enough to pay 2-3 subs per month and how will they affect the game.
@Blectorn said in The Potential City Problem.:
@Nekrage said in The Potential City Problem.:
That's a good idea, but what about the beastmen? There's no PvP, is there?
Arboreus is not very well thought at this point. Having limited public farming spots and resources without being able to dispute them will lead to a lot of griefing.
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I was crafting a lengthy response to several of the things @Nekrage said here then I realized it was pointless. I was obviously wrong and @Nekrage was obviously correct. Whatever @Nekrage said is clearly fact simply because @Nekrage said it.
There done. Fractured is doomed if the devs do not immediately do what @Nekrage says.
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@Razvan said in The Potential City Problem.:
The problem, as it often happens in this forum is that most active people are oriented towards casual or even solo play and completely disregard that there will be (semi-)hardcore guilds out there with people dedicated enough to pay 2-3 subs per month and how will they affect the game.
@Blectorn said in The Potential City Problem.:
@Nekrage said in The Potential City Problem.:
That's a good idea, but what about the beastmen? There's no PvP, is there?
Arboreus is not very well thought at this point. Having limited public farming spots and resources without being able to dispute them will lead to a lot of griefing.
100% this.
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@Nekrage said in The Potential City Problem.:
@Ostaff said in The Potential City Problem.:
@Ostaff said in The Potential City Problem.:
As for multiple alts.. of course everyone will have multiple alts... that is the whole intention of the game.
Then it seems I am supporting the wrong game. I would love to hear that "alts are the main purpose of Fractured" from Prometheus himself.
It's obviously not the main purpose of the game, but it has always been the case of multiple characters being allowed on an account. The Kickstarter packs have additional character slots as a benefit even. It's very unlikely to go away.
@Ostaff said in The Potential City Problem.:
As for your steal and kill, sigh quite literally you are over obsessive with PvP. This game is far more than just PvP.
More roleplaying PvE baby crap we have been seeing non-stop on these forums. Pathetic.
I got this message as SOON as I posted this thread and he was SPOT on.
I can easily turn all of that around (note, I'm not trying to attack you just showing a point):
"More roid rage, toxic PvP turd face crap we have been seeing non-stop on these forums. Pathetic."
As for the image, it's the same thing of any one group trying to convince another group to their way of thinking. Each side is right and minds won't be changed. You are 100%, vehemently grounded in your opinion on this. As are the people with an opposing opinion.
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One thing I think some people are not considering is the value of those resources. According to the news article: https://fracturedmmo.com/feature-spotlight-2-universe-planets-travels/ Cities on a Planet are maintained by the resources from that planet. Tartaros has lots of stone for building cities, but is very lacking in metals used for equipment. While Arboreus is rich and very fertile with its resources. This means 1) Arboreus people won't need to fight each other over resources. They will have a lot at hand. 2) Tartaros will be fighting constantly for lootable goods such as eqiupment. Both play into their respective game styles. The main reason you would want to have "off-world" resources will be for the higher level tier buildings and goods, which a lot of people won't even be worrying about. Hardcore gamers will be the one seeking those resources. and it just so happens that...the middle planet Syndesia is where it will all come together. The trading/merchant planet where everyone travels to for exchanging of goods (which just so happens to allow a form of PvP which means "taking").
The fact is, we have literally only seen Syndesia. PvP'ers seem to fear Arboreus quite a bit (must be all the hatred which broke up the planets to begin with, and jealousy of all that Nature Power), while the Arboreus seem to just want to "chill" and be hippees. While those Syndesians.... well... they do seem to be a bit unsure of what they want but definitely have a thirst for action and creativity. hmmm.. amazing how that fits their game style.
I think the devs have thought through this very well and very long. Let's give them a chance to show us what they have planned when we can actually see more than just one play style.
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The whole point is that game is sandbox and players will set their own rules.
If someone wants to accept everyone and their mother, even if they stabbed him in the back 5 timesby leaving, there is no reason why he wouldnt have an option to accept them and get stabbed again.
If someone will set a price for rejoining the city he should be able too.
Maybe someone will setsome other random conditions.
Point is in sandbox you shoulnt interfere with players possibilities unless its some unintended mechanic exploit used to gain advantage / grief people with it etc.
I would personaly set an increasing rejoining fee to leavers that rises every time you repeatedly leave and want to rejoin. But thats just me.
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I think this is a problem of a lot of people never having played a full loot pvp system before. This sort of alt meta will lead to large alliances/mega zergs and that will end up killing playability for a lot of people.
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I said before in the economy thread that I feel resources are going to be the one thing that is running the economy. Since loot drops basically are resources players need a way to make coin and I think farming them is why players will hunt; either to avoid paying others or to make coin.
I'm curious how "vendoring" will be accomplished. I hope there is some way to load your wares onto a vendor/stall so they can be sold. I despise trying to arrange direct trades. It is way too time consuming and if the game doesn't have some secured trading method then there is too much of a chance for dishonest players to rob you. Don't even bother saying that's real life because in real life there are laws and those that enforce them. There is no such thing in a game where rules don't cover the game mechanic. I hate when players throw ideas about realism out there without ever thinking of the real life game mechanics. There are theories and there is realism and I live in the real life. When players throw out "but that's realism" I'd like to see them also throw out the idea on how to accomplish their realism in game mechanics
The game should allow alts unless you can do everything on one character. Since this game has skill limits then of course others who want to do everything will have to have access to more characters. Why turn away those players who are willing to spend the cash to buy more alts. Put safe guards into the game to prevent abuse from using alts. It's not like this is the first game to allow alts to be played. Several games accomplish it just fine by putting in mechanics to stop abuse, timers/cooldowns being one already mentioned.
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@Farlander said in The Potential City Problem.:
Put safe guards into the game to prevent abuse from using alts
I agree 100%
Currently there are no safe guards and no indication there ever will be. Hence the “meta” requiring alts and multiple accounts.
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How they will handle player trade is also something I am looking forward to in the next alpha test. I am hoping they put in a dual security layer on trades, where both parties have to agree to the trade at the end and if anything is changed in the trade since the first acceptance, they both will need to accept the trade agreement again. I've seen this in Ryzom and a few other games now and like it. I also hope they never implement a mail trade or global auction. That I believe would totally undermine their current game mechanics of having to transport the goods to and from city locations. However, I do believe they have already stated that we will have npc vendors to sell our goods at a "local" level. Which I think is what you were wanting. I've seen this also in some games (New World even does it) and love it as it encourages exploration and travel.
As for your "alt" piece. I have no clue really what you are going on about there. If you are not wanting "alts" to be in seperate guilds cause of PvP purposes... I think that's kinda already handled with account bound homes/cities. Kinda hard to be in two guilds on the same planet, as you will only have access to one plot of land. Beyond that, our guild already has mechanics in place for monitoring that kind of thing. Don't see why the game needs to handle it when then Guilds can themselves. If you are not wanting "alts" to be able to mob rush a location for attacking, that's kinda handled in their long character load-up time. It's a lot faster and easier I think to just use the same character who died and transport him back to his last location for attacking. If you are referring to people zerging with multiple accounts, then well... that's a pretty hard thing to keep from other than it being a click based game which will really make it hard to handle 2 accounts at one time.
Oh, and for Neckrage, as to the full loot thing.. remember that only the smallest planet of the three actually has a full loot system. The other pvp (faction pvp) is not full loot. and the third and largest planet (twice the size of the others) is pure PvE with no looting. Just from the way the game has been designed, the problems that you have seen with protected "farmers" in PvP will be a major factor here, and as the game is designed, no character will be able to have "everything". You will have to have an alt.
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@Nekrage said in The Potential City Problem.:
@Roccandil said in The Potential City Problem.:
The above scenario is not free:
You must pay real money for each account;
Righttttt....and that gives you an ADVANTAGE.
As it stands it's required to be the most efficient. That's P2W.
No, it isn't.
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@Razvan said in The Potential City Problem.:
Arboreus is not very well thought at this point. Having limited public farming spots and resources without being able to dispute them will lead to a lot of griefing.
City resources require a functioning city to claim and exploit, and keeping a city running is not easy. Any guild that spreads themselves thin trying to claim all of a resource type (say, gold) will have a hard time keeping those cities from decaying.
Furthermore, the rest of the continent can refuse to trade with the gold monopoly guild, weakening them further.
Arboreus may wind being the place for economic PvP, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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@Roccandil
What is the minimum number of active players a town-owning guild should have? Is 50 enough? What is the difference between a big 200 members guild split into 4 towns, and 4 medium-sized (50 members) guilds which own one town each?You can't base a game mechanic on the wishful thinking that maybe everyone will refuse to trade with a certain guild.
PS: What do you mean exactly with "economic PvP"? Materials obtained from PvE are also resources and a big part of Arboreus. If they don't change their vision and the game gets popular, you'll have zones like the Vale with a bunch of groups trying to steal each other's mobs because they can't dispute farming spots. Or more realistically, the level of Albion's blue zone griefing when it went f2p.
