Death Penalty of losing all gear and inventory: WORST IDEA EVER!!!
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@FibS actually especially in pvp a death with a full loot system adds a ton of feelings into the game, like the feel of fear if you go out in the wilderness. The feel of rage over the own stupidness to mess a fight up, or even go out unprepared. Death hiding behind every corner. It adds a ton of value to the gameplay instead of mindless running around and don't care about anything at all. It adds thrill to the game. And beside that it adds more value to other playstyles like pure crafters, gatherers, auctionhouse flippers, traders, merchs etc. They would be all obsolete with no full loot combat (maybe beside ah flippers
)
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@Shivashanti Most players actually dislikes the full loot system because of the same reasons.
Only niche enjoys, some adapt and rest hates. In general, death can be penalized many different ways and still make it meaningful to avoid it. Full loot system is ofc one the worst even it suits okay with games like Fractured. Full loot system itself does not keep the economy running, however, it is typically the item breaking mechanic build to the looting situation which makes that happen. Items can be scrabbed and decayed other ways as well, therefore, the full loot system is not a mandatory to have, even it is a working method and devs can easily tweak the breaking percentages if/when needed.
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Honestly, I like the idea of death being a harsh punishment. I do understand the stress though. Hopefully there can be a middle ground.
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@FibS said
. but still an utterly pointless farce that adds nothing to a game except anti-fun.
In your opinion. I love the way they are handling death. If you pay attention it is very hard to die to begin with. If you sleep in a city near where you are adventuring there aren't any nightmarishly long walks to get your corpse. The excitement that I get from the chance at dying and losing what I am carrying is fantastic. I have played games with the only penalty you have is "oh dear a tiny experience debt and I have to run back to where I was fighting" soooo boring!!!
I jumped on board this game because it is what it is. With the number of options for play style, ease of survivability, and the fact that you can craft your own armor, asking for them to nullify the penalty for death is ludicrous.
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Oh well, some people wants to play games for fun and some people to feel miserable when they die. I guess everyone has their own cup of tea..
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Death in a game, in and of itself is not a motivator.
In games with limited lives, or Experience penalties, or time limits, then death itself is a demotivator.
In games like Fractured, where there is no Experience, and no Limited Lives, and no Time Limits, Death needs to be about corpse runs and/or loss of gear. You need to pay an actual penalty, as otherwise, unlike real life, in game, you Respawn, and can keep going. What exactly does failure in an individual battle mean? Without a death-consequence, it means NOTHING. Death-consequences is what keeps cautious players from risking battles underprepared. It motivates people to go out and take on the lesser mobs to build their character up, getting better gear before they tackle that bigger battle. Otherwise, everyone is going to just press their luck and hope to get lucky, over and over, with no penalty, why not? Then the game has no consequences and it becomes boring.
I'm not a PVP player, so this isn't coming from a standpoint of the PvP mentality, but I am a hard core, die hard, long term gamer, and infinite games with no downside to death just become games I put back on the shelf and never play again.
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Time for a new business model... Corpse Retrieval Inc.
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Seriously taken, every game (where you are able to die) needs some kind of death penalties and every game will have own approach to implement this. In the end the death penalties depends of how the game is planned to work in general, what is the developers vision of their product and what is the target audience.
I am not personally a huge fan of full loot systems in general but I understand how that kind of system suits for certain type of games. I have played games like Runescape and Albion Online where I have learned to live with full loot rules. I guess for me its easier to adapt because I like PvP as much as PvE. However, I also understand those who are more PvE centric players and who dislikes PvP in games, especially to them full loot system can feel extremely punishing and worst idea ever.
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Many people in this thread thinks death should have penalty, and the penalty means heavily punished by clearing inventory or losing all of the gear. However they ignored that the most direct impact of death is you lose your progression towards a goal, this goal can be killing a boss, exploring a dungeon or gathering a certain resource. You have to repeat the progress if you are dead and this is the penalty.
This game is advertising as a dynamic mmo with lots of interactions between skills and the environment. That means players need a lot of trial and errors in order to explore and find these interactions and this should be an enjoyable journey. But the heavy death penalty will definitely discourage players from exploring. New players may just copy and paste the meta builds from hardcore players and lose interest to the game quickly.
If we look at the successful MMO RPGs such as WOW, elderscrolls online, FF14 and guild wars 2, none of them applied such heavy death penalty. In the isometric MMO ARPG category path of exile is very successful but it does not take away all of the items in your inventory. It is true that these games do have other penalties such as losing experience and equipment decay, which may not be directly applied to Fractured.
Many full-loot MMO RPG failed to fit modern player base. The amazon new MMO new world ditched their original plan of full-loot pvp in the beginning of this year. The most successful full-loot MMO RPG I can think of is probably Albion, but that game is pvp-oriented and does not have the "dynamic" features in Fractured. We certainly do not want to see Fracture to become an Albion copy.
Anyway this game is still at early stage, I believe the developers will make the game towards the right direction based on player feedback and experience from other games.
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@gsun2866
"Successful MMO" is a very broad thing. This is a niche game inspired by Ultima, with a different focus from ESO. The main idea of losing gear when dying is to keep the economy alive without the need of adding new top tier items all the time.
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What I have seen in Albion and what I know is planned for Fractured, I think Fractured will be less penalizing than Albion even both have open world PvP and full loot rules. In Fractured we will have Arboreus where loosing all your gear and inventory can be really rare or even totally avoidable if being careful. In addition, Syndesia has some protection via criminal and karma system which will restrict the open world PvP quite a bit. Moreover, in Fractured where the gear system will be horizontal focused with having small power gaps between tiers, gives players a good oppurtunity to use easily replaceable lower tier gear in the open world. Therefore, players and guilds can relatively easy stock piles of basic gear to their banks and storehouses. However, I can see that those who are going to suffer most in Fractured are gatherers, who will loose on top the gear all the resources they have already gathered.
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I like the idea of people not keeping everything if they die. Kind of balances the game.
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I like the idea of christmas, and everyone giving me all their best gear as gifts
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@Ostaff And then we play Evil Santa and I get to go right after you
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
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@Ostaff I have already called it. To make things on Halloween everyone loses everything!!!!! I think that is a good balance. Not me of course
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Full loss is actually great for the game, especially in terms of in game economy. It means that there will always be a need for materials to make gear, which means new players will always have a reliable income stream. Inflation is countered by gear destruction, and large organizations with skilled logistics teams will gain a massive advantage in war (by resupplying their members with gear whenever they die, and they prepare them to die en mass for strategic objectives). If you want a good example of that in an MMO, look no further than EVE Online. There's a great book out there called "Empires of EVE" that details the stories from that game; my hope is that someday Fractured will also offer a similar experience, but in a fantasy setting.
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I do think it should be level based thought. That way new people don't lose stuff right off the start but after a certain level you should suffer!
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I use to play a game where you could get very valuable items called a magic bag that had like a 92% chance of retaining your gear, maybe hard to acquire protective items are a possibility? But in general, Iām for full loot lol
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@Scozzi But if you have such an item, how do I take your stuff? You are are just holding for it for me after all.
