Clarification on the target audience
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As an extremely PVP/efficiency focused person, I'm fairly concerned about this too.
PVP is generally going to be more of a hurdle to efficient resource gathering for most people, than anything that's likely to be put in the furrylands. Furryland will likely be over farmed because of this, devaluing its resources. Presumably once furryland resources are devalued enough, the risk:reward factor would lead most furrymen to travel elsewhere for a better paycheck. Past the initial release, I'd also expect the new player population to be highest in furryland, leading to a greater reduction is resource value.
Alternatively, the value of resources on the furryland may be artificially increased, forcing PVPers to farm there on alts. Lower risk, higher reward.
@Finland
Just sayin', being a sandbox PVPer doesn't mean you're inherently some over testosterone filled butthole out to ruin everybody's experience. I feel the majority of people who act like they are, are just extremely unpleasant people who don't fare well in social situations. People that others quickly end up disliking. People who instigate name calling, while simultaneously acting morally superior. Annoying people.With that in mind, given the opportunity, I'm going to corpse camp the poop out of you.
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You mentioned playing Tetris in another post, just chill.
I didn't mention arena or bg in that post.
I get the same satisfaction that you get when you pve and craft something or when you get a guild to defend some town or something. From what I read about this game, Aboreus will be the best challenging PvP because of the state of the planet. Locals getting a buff while the invaders getting a debuff sounds like a great challenge! It'll be similar to when you raided in WoW. The boss has the HP, the damage and abilities to kill the invading raid. You did that for gear and for the challenge, and if someone saw you in that raid gear they might compliment you for it and your achievement.
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@Jetah I mentioned Tetris cause it's a single player game! Second thing If I come to punch you in the face to steal your pc how do you feel? But If I come there just to punch you without steal your pc is another point of view ;).
@Holya Dunno I just dislike to work on my character and lose things. I never do professions, I'm a PvE grinder, I also enjoy jumping in to pvp for fun (if you don't lose equip/item). that's just my point of view.
I'm wondering how much time will take to grind money to buy the best equip in the game.
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@holya Supposing alts can even trade with their main characters to "share" all that furryland farm
(furryland is now my favourite word for arboreus hehehehe)I guess i would be fine with the whole "planet warns you if a pvp dude is coming". Not so much if you just get ganked and killed without even a warning, in a planet that does not condone that at all
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oy vey! furryland? really peeps? farm my claws in you gut. I really dk why everyone is sooo sure that beastmen are going to be a walkover to pvp'ers. just bring it baby... ahh in 2 years or so...
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Beastmen aren't going to be a pushover for PKers, because any Evil-aligned character is unable to access the entirety of the planet and is massively debuffed + curbstomped by the wildlife in the parts they CAN access.
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@gibbx said in Clarification on the target audience:
(...) I really dk why everyone is sooo sure that beastmen are going to be a walkover to pvp'ers.(...)
I doubt that's the case. Balancing would be trivial (the less PvP you're doing, the higher your bonus due to beastman environment) for that matter.
It's more about people who do not want PvP to happen at all (and try to rally for changing the vision/design of the game accordingly) in specific areas. Because that would directly impact the PvP part (not only does it take development time to develop the pure PvE part, that can't be spent developing PvP content, but the interaction between pure PvE and PvP can easily unbalance PvP).
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@logain said in Clarification on the target audience:
@gibbx said in Clarification on the target audience:
(...) I really dk why everyone is sooo sure that beastmen are going to be a walkover to pvp'ers.(...)
I doubt that's the case. Balancing would be trivial (the less PvP you're doing, the higher your bonus due to beastman environment) for that matter.
It's more about people who do not want PvP to happen at all (and try to rally for changing the vision/design of the game accordingly) in specific areas. Because that would directly impact the PvP part (not only does it take development time to develop the pure PvE part, that can't be spent developing PvP content, but the interaction between pure PvE and PvP can easily unbalance PvP).The developers are already spending time making PvE content though, like dungeons and events.
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@vengu said in Clarification on the target audience:
The developers are already spending time making PvE content though, like dungeons and events.
Ah, you misunderstood me, sorry, I should have explained myself better/more detailed.
PvE content should be developed and should exist, but that is typically the fastest consumed content and a race no developer can win (PvP content is partially 'built' through player interaction, which is why you need less time developing and can keep up at the pace of consumption). If you have an 'open world', where PvP is part of the PvE experience, that takes less time to develop then a purely PvE instanced environment.
Does that make sense?
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@logain said in Clarification on the target audience:
@gibbx said in Clarification on the target audience:
(...) I really dk why everyone is sooo sure that beastmen are going to be a walkover to pvp'ers.(...)
I doubt that's the case. Balancing would be trivial (the less PvP you're doing, the higher your bonus due to beastman environment) for that matter.
It's more about people who do not want PvP to happen at all (and try to rally for changing the vision/design of the game accordingly) in specific areas. Because that would directly impact the PvP part (not only does it take development time to develop the pure PvE part, that can't be spent developing PvP content, but the interaction between pure PvE and PvP can easily unbalance PvP).Dude really? Open world PvP does not require content XD you are just free to pvp every where. I think pvpers shoud not argue about it cause you are getting more than pvers. Open dung/raid/boss is not a pve content but pvp ;).
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@logain said in Clarification on the target audience:
@vengu said in Clarification on the target audience:
The developers are already spending time making PvE content though, like dungeons and events.
Ah, you misunderstood me, sorry, I should have explained myself better/more detailed.
PvE content should be developed and should exist, but that is typically the fastest consumed content and a race no developer can win (PvP content is partially 'built' through player interaction, which is why you need less time developing and can keep up at the pace of consumption). If you have an 'open world', where PvP is part of the PvE experience, that takes less time to develop then a purely PvE instanced environment.
Does that make sense?But what if a PvE player doesn't want to do PvP content. Such content is meaningless for that person then, even if isn't consumed as fast as PvE content.
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@vengu said in Clarification on the target audience:
But what if a PvE player doesn't want to do PvP content. Such content is meaningless for that person then, even if isn't consumed as fast as PvE content.
Correct! Which is precisely why you want to narrow down your target audience, so people know. You can not carter to everybody, if you try, you're going to fail and alienate everybody. If the game wants to carter to 'pure PvE', it's going to fail hard on the PvP side if the game wants to carter to PvP, it shouldn't try and support pure PvE. Simply let people know in advance, then nobody can complain.
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You are failing hard ;).. You can make a game for both playstyle ;).. Pvpers must focus their target on PvPers that's what dev should work on. But to be honest the highest player base in every mmo is PvE ;).
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@logain said in Clarification on the target audience:
@vengu said in Clarification on the target audience:
But what if a PvE player doesn't want to do PvP content. Such content is meaningless for that person then, even if isn't consumed as fast as PvE content.
Correct! Which is precisely why you want to narrow down your target audience, so people know. You can not carter to everybody, if you try, you're going to fail and alienate everybody. If the game wants to carter to 'pure PvE', it's going to fail hard on the PvP side if the game wants to carter to PvP, it shouldn't try and support pure PvE. Simply let people know in advance, then nobody can complain.
But the devs have said they want to focus on both. That's why there are 3 planets with 3 rulesets. If the devs just wanted to focus on 1 thing, we would have had either Tartaros or Arboreus, not both.
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I think this could be solved to some extent, by implementing a system that doesn't reward pvp-ers for ganking pve-rs. Fore example... you can only loot one random stack of materials, nothing more from a player that has pvp switched off while if they are attacked and they defeat their assailant, they can loot everything. Also, mark "griefers" as criminals that are attacked on sight by guards and cannot access taverns, vendors and so on in the areas where they have committed crimes. If you also have area teleportation on cooldowns, griefers will find it difficult to rest, sell out, or restock with food and the likes. This way, you don't completely shun someone off, but you make it very difficult for them to roleplay the thug!
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@darian said in Clarification on the target audience:
I think this could be solved to some extent, by implementing a system that doesn't reward pvp-ers for ganking pve-rs. Fore example... you can only loot one random stack of materials, nothing more from a player that has pvp switched off while if they are attacked and they defeat their assailant, they can loot everything. Also, mark "griefers" as criminals that are attacked on sight by guards and cannot access taverns, vendors and so on in the areas where they have committed crimes. If you also have area teleportation on cooldowns, griefers will find it difficult to rest, sell out, or restock with food and the likes. This way, you don't completely shun someone off, but you make it very difficult for them to roleplay the thug!
We hope someone will listen to you!
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@darian I agree with you there.
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Thanks for starting this thread @Logain, we've been following it with a lot of interest. I see it mostly evolved into a PvP vs PvE discussion, which seems to be very frequent on the forums these days - so I'll address that specifically.
We are deeply convinced we can make the PvE and PvP crowds coexist in Fractured. In fact, we could call that one of the design pillars of the game itself!
Historically, several MMOs just launched separate servers with different rulesets to address the issue. Others have gone for a level-base split - low level areas are protected, high level areas feature FFA PvP (perhaps with some mid-ground in between). Albion Online is a good example of the latter.
The Albion approach helps with new player retention, but in the end if you hate PvP you're going to quit, since you can only progress up to a point.
In Fractured, if you like only PvE, you have a home for yourself (Arboreus) that features areas that are entirely PvE-only, and the rest where hostile PvP is still seriously restricted. You won't get murdered when you're a new player, and you'll be largely able to avoid it after and still progress, since resources on Arboreus are not weaker nor stronger than in Syndesia or Tartaros - they're just different.
Of course, I realize this answer is not explaining much, so it might be a good thing to anticipate the Spotlight on the justice system and PvP rules (which is already planned), since I can't explain it all in just one forum post.
That being said, Fractured is still a sandbox MMO - you won't have a questline to follow, you won't be spoon-fed the content of the game, crafting, trading and building are a huge part of the Fractured experience - easily more than PvE, if one wants to - and so on. If someone is looking for the new WoW, he won't find it here :slight_smile:
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@prometheus thanks for the clarification. I got tired of arguing with Logain and Finland about PVP v PVE so gave up but it looks like I did correctly understand that Fractured was being designed to appeal to all audiences which was in fact my original point in response to the OP. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to this game more and more.
Cheers
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@gibbx said in Clarification on the target audience:
geez all this talk seems to assume that beastmen are completely unable to fight. if you come on my planet to take my stuffs you are gonna get claws in the gut. as I said before just because beastmen don't prefer to PVP does not mean the they cant PVP
^ This
@tulukaruk said in Clarification on the target audience:
@gibbx said in Clarification on the target audience:
geez all this talk seems to assume that beastmen are completely unable to fight. if you come on my planet to take my stuffs you are gonna get claws in the gut. as I said before just because beastmen don't prefer to PVP does not mean the they cant PVP
Usually PvP works a bit differently then PvE so PvEers aren't as good in PvP as the gankers.
Thats just because generally PvE'ers are nice people lol. Gankers are just pricks, there is no other way round it. Idont mean people who like to PvP, I like to PvP but ganking is just someone who wants to be a prick. Its how @Jetah says a little further up except I think it needs a little revision
Asswipes: interfere with the functioning of the game world or the play experience of other players
Achievers: accumulate status tokens by beating the rules-based challenges of the game world
Explorers: discover the systems governing the operation of the game world
Socializers: form relationships with other players by telling stories within the game world
