Concerns related to the attributes
-
@Tuoni said in Concerns related to the attributes:
At the moment the reason looks like to be a character identity which is quite small roleplaying feature tbh, everyone can cherish their character's identity if they want to, however, I do not know why anyone should care about other players characters' identities.
You seem to think character identity is a minor issue and a thing for roleplayers. You thought I RP because I value character identity. Allow me to give you an example. Pick a movie or comic that you really like the immersion, if you even care about that. Now imagine every scene the character was different; it'd be a jarring experience and the directors/writers would probably be raked over the coals for their consistency being atrocious. My wife, who's a game never role played in her life, thinks character identity is important. But wait! That's impossible! She must be role playing then!
And since you keep insisting that so little people care about character identity, here's some bullshit I can spout: Even LESS people care about rerolling their main to do anything and everything whenever they want. All you've done in this thread is keep moving the goalpost or denying opposing ideas and claiming they don't count because "it doesn't affect many people." You keep thinking people care about OTHER PLAYER IDENTITY - that isn't the opposing points But hey, you'll just bury your head in the sand and keep pretending that's what it's about.
Here's a page I'll take from your book. Only a minor amount of players want to be lazy, have such poor planning, and doesn't want to be accountable for their decisions care about having this "QoL" issue (which let's be honest, it isn't one) added to the game. Did I channel you correctly? It looks like I did. And if you don't think so, I want you to seriously re-read all your responses in this thread from the opposing viewpoints. But I know you won't. And no, don't ask. I'm not role playing with you right now.
You're not even following this thread! More people oppose this idea than support; but hey, it's just a small amount of people. If you keep repeating that enough and shouting it from the rooftops, eventually it'll be true right? I know you won't bother to actually go through the thread, cause that goes against your belief of not having any accountability for your decisions, so I did it for you.
This is every poster in this thread.
Agrees with you (5 people): Tuoni, Roccandil, FibS (I think?), Farlander, Razvan
Agrees with me (8 people): Manaia, Mudz, Eurav, Mindark, Vaulks, Gibbx, KairosVal, dj35
Cash shop only options (3 people): Gothix, NeroulGB, PeachMcD
You probably will claim that people who know how math works are so few and it's for role players, so that doesn't count. 8 is greater than (more) 5. More people oppose your point of view in this thread.To make things easier for you, the thread I made: https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/10551/what-kind-of-game-do-you-hope-fractured-will-be
There's a poll regarding this thread, but to get an easier viewpoint. 16 (59%) agree with me, 11 (41%) agree with you. There are pretty blue lines that show so you can see that if math is too hard for you to grasp.So admit that you aren't all high and mighty, quit disregarding everyone who gives feedback opposing you, learn to take criticism and accept there can be opposing VALID ideas at any given time.
-
@Farlander Hey Farlander, thanks for taking the time to respond.
Your first bullet point brings up an issue that isn't related to the actual topic, but my assumptions (and I can easily be wrong in these) would be that altoholics will not be the main demographic that is advocating for rerolling. I've addressed the meat of your objection, that nerfs our character build to the point that your toon is shot, with my second point in my post that this variance as a result of your choice shouldn't have too much impact to overall balance. I would push that no reasonable attribute allocation should destroy any build. Attributes should not carry that level of power over our characters.
I don't believe that it would take long for a new characters to hit "end game" here. Not from what I've seen so far. I definitely don't think it will take weeks to unlock a handful of abilities. Also, regarding the fact that my character would get nerfed to the point they are no fun to play. This sounds to me like an entirely different problem you have than with attribution points - which have a minimal impact on the current game.
I've also addressed that respecing being available to everyone CAN have bearing on ALL other players. It shapes the world we play in. The biggest thing that comes to mind is the economy. I'm not entirely against respecs, but there should be a cost (of something, time, money, etc) to it. And it shouldn't exist on the fly.
It's in the best interests to the devs to keep players around and enjoying the game... Absolutely agree here! But keep in mind that there are multiple viewpoints to satisfy than the single one you're pushing - which we don't even know to be true at this point or not. I think we should have a good balance of it. I don't think everyone should be able to respec freely at any time. I think that is the purpose of alts - to have a different experience.
@Tuoni Having an option to respec attributes does not offer advantage over other players so it does not have negative impacts. Avoiding player frustration is also somethig what developers should taken account when planning QoL things. Isn't the whole argument of having respecs is because it DOES offer advantages? And the fact that it does offer advantages ("disadvantages" can balance this - any cost) would imply that one would be disadvantaged by NOT doing it. This can frustrate players that now feel more compelled to respec - especially if there is a cost, which there should be.
Every design decision may affect on everyone but the effects are usually positive so why would that be a problem. Disagree. Every design decision is usually positive?
A feature like 'possibility to reroll attributes' will be a huge QoL thing. I agree. It is a huge QoL thing. I might end up doing it dozens of times a day. Please let there be a cooldown cost on this if respecs are a thing.
Everyone has this chance but it is still optional if someone decides not to use that for any reasons. At the moment the reason looks like to be a character identity. You've missed the point here. Maintaining character identity is an argument against allowing (frequent/costless) respecs. Maintaining character identity would not be a reason to not respec. If it's in game, people will be compelled to do it.
At the moment the reason looks like to be a character identity which is quite small roleplaying feature tbh. Identity is a lot more important, I think, than you realize it is. Maybe not to you, though. But you shouldn't dismiss it as a concern from the community because you don't personally care for it. Identity is crucial for any characters, be it in any game, TV show, or movie.
-
One more question for the crowd. If you are in favor of respecs, do you feel that these should include race changes? I find that most the arguments being made in favor of respecs would suggest that race changes should also be included. I would definitely be opposed to that.
-
Not a race change... but...
I would be in favor of minor character changes by services of plastic surgeon, hair dresser and barber.
-
@Mindark said in Concerns related to the attributes:
If you are in favor of respecs, do you feel that these should include race changes?
No to race changes.
Also, there's a varying degree to which people agree with respecs. For example, I plan not to change my main and I want it to remain competitive for however long I play, reason for which I think it's reasonable to offer a respec every major patch (so max 2 per year). Some other people who want to be in trend with whatever's hot at the moment, might need a respec every 2 weeks, which I think it's abusive.PS:
I don't believe that it would take long for a new characters to hit "end game" here.
I think this is a very important discussion which is not stressed enough. If there's not enough space for progress, the game will not be much of an RPG in the first place and I will get bored quite fast. More than that, being able to create a top ganker in half a day will make the game very unfun. I don't think we have a good understanding of how grindy the game will actually be, but considering that a big part of premium is faster progress, my guess is: a lot more grindier than what some people imagine.
-
@Razvan I think we share a lot of the same opinions here.
For the end game thing, I think it really matters what there is to do in end game vs the journey there. Do I think we should be a top ganker within a day or two? Is that reasonable with the systems in place? Maybe? Maybe not. I think that being competitive in the ganking scene can be pretty likely - all depending on your main.
From what we know, these things make our end game:
Knowledge
Gear
EnchantsGear and enchants can, essentially, be traded between characters. Knowledge is the only thing that will really take time. And that you can be carried with friends/guildies.
As I understand it, the plans are to offer different modifications to abilities later? Like if Diablo 3's rune system had ranks. That could change the amount of time it takes to get an alt to end game. But as it is now, it seems very easy to hit that end game. It really depends how much of a role knowledge plays.
-
@Manaia Let me start by saying my only post in this thread is:
@Eurav said in Concerns related to the attributes:
Pretty sure Jacopo mentioned in the last Q&A (or maybe the one before that), that everyone will get a free Attribute Reset and that Attribute Reset will be content of the Cash Shop. There will be a decent cooldown on the usage of that though
We will be able to get additional Attribute Points through gear and the Talent Tree but I think they hard cap at 25?
The only concerns I currently have about the system would be wether it is too simple and that the Attribute Points one currently gets might be a bit too many.
And I voted in the poll for a "More sandbox based" game, so I don´t know how you came to the conclusion that I support your view
@Manaia said in Concerns related to the attributes:
You've clearly not read my response I made to Tuoni regarding mega guilds "forcing" you to respec to how they want. Or peer pressure amongst any group of friends to have someone fit the role they want. Tuoni basically said "I don't care, so it's not a real issue." Are you saying that too? That if it doesn't impact you it's not a real possibility?
What I don´t really get about this, and what I think @Tuoni also already said... if there is peer pressure from the group / guild it does not matter if you have attribute respec or not. You can "respec" by simply creating a new character. So if a guild only wants "properly specced people" having Attribute Point resets or not does not matter, they can still pressure anyone for going for a good specced character... If anything it makes it easier to respec, so that you can join the guild you want without having to throw away all the progress you made with your first character.
Coming back to the poll, I don´t like it. The poll seems laid out to "trick" people into picking the "More RPG based" option. Character choices, immersion, consistency... are important, and they can exist in a "More sandbox based" game as well as in a "More RPG based" game.
I have seen you arguing about the ability to respec multiple times a day / respeccing to specific situations and that that would kill that the joice of Attribute Points matters, that it would kill immersion and I totally agree. I don't think anyone argued for having that.
I want to have Attribute Resets, but in a way that it does not destroy the game. So I think the one we get for free at the start is good, because nobody knows what he is doing then and would probably like to reset later at some point and I also think we need respecs later on. I think getting one respec for every significant patch could be an option, or just having it in the Cash Shop with a long enough cool down like two months e.g.. Then they could ofc also have a limited time of usage, so that you can´t store / collect them and "abuse" them. Although that would probably be a very minimal problem, to "abuse" that mechanic every six months or so :D. You could of course also have a limit of how often you can respec your character. There are many ways to prevent a "daily / situational respec".
I think having the option to reset the Attribute Points in Fractured is pretty important. As people already have said, it is important if specific playstyles get nerfed, or you just want to change your playstyle to something else, because you got sick of your old one. I think creating a new character in that case would not be an option for many people. The devs already said that gathering knowledge about skills will surely take multiple months. Having to throw away all that progress and create a new character (I am sure some people would not have problems with that, but I think most would.), suck it up that I can't change my playstyle or maybe even quitting the game seem like rather bad options to me.
-
@Manaia said in Concerns related to the attributes:
@Farlander said in Concerns related to the attributes:
Respecing, if available to everyone, has absolutely no bearing on another player.
You've clearly not read my response I made to Tuoni regarding mega guilds "forcing" you to respec to how they want. Or peer pressure amongst any group of friends to have someone fit the role they want. Tuoni basically said "I don't care, so it's not a real issue." Are you saying that too? That if it doesn't impact you it's not a real possibility?
Actually, I gave you quite precise rationale but I guess you missed it.
-
@Manaia Damn you are getting triggered. It looks like you miss the whole point. People can care of their characters identities and that is fine, even those who would be okay with attribute change possibility can care of their characters (and I presume most are) identity, however, they might value more other roleplaying aspects like character progression or their actions in game. Attributes are not equal to character identity, those are just one part of it, and because of the change is optional people who wants to grap on attributes set in the character creation can do so but it would be selfish to try deny that option from other players.
Character creation is at the moment a place where many new players can easily make mistakes and decisions they will regret later. This can of course happen to test phase players as well but most likely less. Game mechanics and balances between builds will change and people will get bored with their current roles and class at that moment. Albion Online is here a perfect example because they were in situation that a good amount of players got frustrated because of the too hard respeccing system. This was a serious problem because it leaded and it would been lead to even more people to quit the game. However, developers reacted to this issue and now they have made respeccing much more easier to guarantee customer satisfaction. Character identity did not weight much in that scale and if would been I do not even want to imagine how much less people Albion would have at the moment. I recently wanted to change my playstyle from ranged damage dealer/support (Cursed Staff) for melee DPS (Spear), I dicided to take the long road and grind spear fame separately even there is this option to move progression from weapon to another. Even I decided to take the long road I understand how important that option is to have, not just to everybody, but especially those who plays in the competitive level.
I would not use your poll here as a base because its not straight related to attribute changes and more like pages the topic. In addition, your poll it is not neutral, your personal opinion comes through the questions and it leads the reader to choose option 1. Furthermore, I like your style to try separate three people from attribute change side so your opinion looks better.
-
@Mindark said in Concerns related to the attributes:
One more question for the crowd. If you are in favor of respecs, do you feel that these should include race changes? I find that most the arguments being made in favor of respecs would suggest that race changes should also be included. I would definitely be opposed to that.
I guess it would be a smart option as well with some limitations of course. I would actually follow WoW model and make it a cash shop feature. It offers developers a good income opportunity and players a nice chance to change planets and guilds. This is propably a feature what players will start to hope for after the game has been up some time.
-
@Manaia I'm sorry you feel you have to give in to peer pressure? I'm at an age no one is going to tell me what to do lol. Also no player is going to tell me how to play the game I have paid for. If it is that important to you to join such a guild I guess you will compromise. Otherwise I would have to tell them to take a hike and find another guild to join. Also I apologize I have actually not read every response in the thread. I tried to scan them to get the main points.
-
@Mindark Before I reply I would like to say no I'm not an alcoholic and in fact I have never drank. My original post was meant for the first post that was to explain my viewpoint on respecing your toon. Also talk about missing points I said in mine they should make it a money grab and charge for respecing not do it on the fly. I also do feel they should offer them free as so many other games I have played because changes to core mechanics can sometimes make your build not worth playing. Have you played D&D which is closest to the stats here? Your stats ARE your characters' abilities. If a skill you used was based off dex but then got changed to str how do you think that would affect your build?
I also addressed your point on how other people can pressure you into changing your character in my post above. How you want to play your game is up to you. If you want a ton of alts then by all means spend the money and add all the character slots you want. Myself I'd rather they allow us to do as much as we can on one alt because that's the experience I want. For you to come here and post insults on replies from players because they don't line up with your desires is not really fair. I try to be civil in my replies and I understand people can be passionate and vocal in their responses so I'll just chalk up your insult to that
-
@Mindark said in Concerns related to the attributes:
At the moment the reason looks like to be a character identity which is quite small roleplaying feature tbh.
Identity is a lot more important, I think, than you realize it is. Maybe not to you, though. But you shouldn't dismiss it as a concern from the community because you don't personally care for it.
Character identity and generally the RPG part of MMORPGs are also important for me, however, perhaps I value different things, and I am not thinking only myself, I am trying to take account wider audience as well.
I want to go more deeply this character indentity part because it looks like general thoughts regarding to indentity are quite shallow, like attributes would determine the whole thing. Okay, I will next make a list from what parts a character identity can consists:
- Attributes
- Gender
- Name
- Race
- Appearance
- Playstyle
- Behaviour
- Character progression
- Activities
- Alignment
There can be of course more but these came up on my mind at the moment. I wanted to highlight few points which are the core parts of RP in MMORPGs. Character progression is where these games lean to and without that the game won't even exists, at least in form of RPG.
If we think of Fractured, the body of a character is the ability- and talent trees and other aspects are build around that and working more like as a limbs. Also activities are a very important part to determine a character's indentity, you may be a farmer, crafter (any kind), trader, gatherer, explorer or any kind of mix that mentioned before. Furthermore, you may be a dungeon crawler or monster hunter (what it comes to PvE content), or you participate a different PvP activities from sieges, to ganking or random ZvZ. I can even decide to play as a criminal or a player who tries to bounty hunt those to get profit.
So the character indenty consists from a compilation of different parts, some people may value one point when another value something else. One may value nothing, one may value everything and the rest of us any possible compination between these two extremes.
Now if we examine closely from what a character identity can consists it is easy to argue that attribute points are quite small part of the whole identity. Attributes are numbers behind the character and effecting passively to my actions. If I am e.g. a master crafter of swords and a bounty hunter who tries to catch criminals, I bet those determines my characters identity much more rather than attribute points in the background.
-
@Eurav said in Concerns related to the attributes:
@Manaia Let me start by saying my only post in this thread is:
@Eurav said in Concerns related to the attributes:
Pretty sure Jacopo mentioned in the last Q&A (or maybe the one before that), that everyone will get a free Attribute Reset and that Attribute Reset will be content of the Cash Shop. There will be a decent cooldown on the usage of that though
We will be able to get additional Attribute Points through gear and the Talent Tree but I think they hard cap at 25?
The only concerns I currently have about the system would be wether it is too simple and that the Attribute Points one currently gets might be a bit too many.
And I voted in the poll for a "More sandbox based" game, so I don´t know how you came to the conclusion that I support your view
Whoops, agreed! I was trying to rush on a time sensitive thing and wanted to post this...rant, for lack of a better word.
I thought I used the verbiage agreed/opposed instead of agreed with him and agreed with me; and then took your concerns with the system whether it would be too simple or not. Tuoni also asked you to expand on what this meant and you didn't reply - we were both I guess unsure on the exact meaning. In the end though, I misread and that's my fault.@Manaia said in Concerns related to the attributes:
You've clearly not read my response I made to Tuoni regarding mega guilds "forcing" you to respec to how they want. Or peer pressure amongst any group of friends to have someone fit the role they want. Tuoni basically said "I don't care, so it's not a real issue." Are you saying that too? That if it doesn't impact you it's not a real possibility?
What I don´t really get about this, and what I think @Tuoni also already said... if there is peer pressure from the group / guild it does not matter if you have attribute respec or not. You can "respec" by simply creating a new character. So if a guild only wants "properly specced people" having Attribute Point resets or not does not matter, they can still pressure anyone for going for a good specced character... If anything it makes it easier to respec, so that you can join the guild you want without having to throw away all the progress you made with your first character.
That was my suggestion to him, he can make an alt for the purposes of respecing. That doesn't impact the main character that was created, whether the individual character cares about said character vs a blank slate is up to them.
Coming back to the poll, I don´t like it. The poll seems laid out to "trick" people into picking the "More RPG based" option. Character choices, immersion, consistency... are important, and they can exist in a "More sandbox based" game as well as in a "More RPG based" game.
The intent wasn't to trick, the intent was to focus on two different genres and parts of their core.
I broke it down to RPG and Sandbox; I did not mention Sandbox MMORPG or MMORPG. Let's use one of the most popular Sandbox game: Minecraft. Minecraft vanilla has no skill system, you can literally be as flexible as you want for the job that needs to be done. The most that needs to be done is craft and equip the gear and you're good. While you can have RPG elements in Minecraft, it's not built around that. There are no alts in Minecraft, so it's important to have that flexibility as the game would be limited otherwise.I have seen you arguing about the ability to respec multiple times a day / respeccing to specific situations and that that would kill that the joice of Attribute Points matters, that it would kill immersion and I totally agree. I don't think anyone argued for having that.
I want to have Attribute Resets, but in a way that it does not destroy the game. So I think the one we get for free at the start is good, because nobody knows what he is doing then and would probably like to reset later at some point and I also think we need respecs later on. I think getting one respec for every significant patch could be an option, or just having it in the Cash Shop with a long enough cool down like two months e.g.. Then they could ofc also have a limited time of usage, so that you can´t store / collect them and "abuse" them. Although that would probably be a very minimal problem, to "abuse" that mechanic every six months or so :D. You could of course also have a limit of how often you can respec your character. There are many ways to prevent a "daily / situational respec".
Agreed, the one respec would be fine since it's not a mechanic of normal gameplay...if that makes sense. And I've mentioned that I'm also fine with cash shops providing it. My views of the cash shops is it breaks the fourth wall of immersion anyway, so that's fine - it also provides more income to maintain/develop future content.
I think having the option to reset the Attribute Points in Fractured is pretty important. As people already have said, it is important if specific playstyles get nerfed, or you just want to change your playstyle to something else, because you got sick of your old one. I think creating a new character in that case would not be an option for many people. The devs already said that gathering knowledge about skills will surely take multiple months. Having to throw away all that progress and create a new character (I am sure some people would not have problems with that, but I think most would.), suck it up that I can't change my playstyle or maybe even quitting the game seem like rather bad options to me.
This boils down to personal preference too I'd suppose. I'm not one to make alts, if I do they generally only serve the purpose of supporting my main. Other people love alts and the leveling process, in here it'd be knowledge gathering. They obviously wouldn't have this issue. It may take multiple months to learn everything, yes, but how long will it take to learn the ~8 skills you're going to be using that "class" for? Probably a weekend at most? It took me two days to learn all the skills available in the latest test. That's with making a 5x5 plot, running back and forth to meet friends, and gathering significantly more materials than I should have. When the game is live, if it came to a point where I made a new character for a new "class" then I'd have gear already made and enchanted too, which would make the grind a lot easier once combat starts.
I think we'd agree on a lot of things on this issue, we just haven't had the chance to address each other about it
-
@Tuoni said in Concerns related to the attributes:
@Manaia Damn you are getting triggered.
To make things easier, I'll agree with this. There are way too many back and forths going on in here it's making it difficult to focus on what's actually being said. So allow me to attempt wipe the slate clean and re-start discussion.
Your proposition:
"My main concern is that are we going to have a chance to reroll the attributes?"
There were stat point values though that was finished discussion early on.Your supporting details:
"I am not asking to have a chance to change the points everytime I want to even I would not be against that either. Some kind of cooldown could be nice like once in the month or something like that."I apologize if I missed supporting details, there was a lot of information to process while reading and the finer things of the discussion are easily missed to get the bigger scope. That being said, the supporting detail that you mentioned sounds fantastic and like we have some common ground!
My thoughts:
During the evolution of this thread (including my post just before this one) I've suggested three things for attribute change:- A gradual stat reallocation system that's a built in mechanic
- Cash shop
- The one-time use of stat allocation per character? Per account? Not sure, but this is limited so a "one-time use" so per character would be fine. As you've said, we'd have the option and what other people do with their characters shouldn't impact ours.
My question to you:
Can you go deeper into how you'd like to see it? Go into more details of the "Your supporting details" section that I mentioned. How often is too often? Any other mechanics involved, or just a simple interface "restat" button?
-
@Farlander said in Concerns related to the attributes:
@Manaia I'm sorry you feel you have to give in to peer pressure?
I don't feel I have to give in to peer pressure, never said I did.
I'm at an age no one is going to tell me what to do lol. Also no player is going to tell me how to play the game I have paid for.
Your age has nothing to do with how OTHER people act. The issue wasn't falling to peer pressure, it was being the recipient of it. Here's an example: "Farlander, I demand you play a dex based class to protect me in PvP!"
I just told you what to do and how to play the game you've paid for. I'm preeeeeeeeeeeetty sure you're not going to do it thoughIf it is that important to you to join such a guild I guess you will compromise. Otherwise I would have to tell them to take a hike and find another guild to join.
Sounds fair, 100% agreed!
Also I apologize I have actually not read every response in the thread. I tried to scan them to get the main points.
I don't blame you. I did that as well as missed a very critical one-liner that changed the ENTIRE conversations of page 3+. Sad times
-
@Farlander I'm sorry you feel I was insulting you? For what it's worth, I said altoholic, not alcoholic.
I'm sorry if you felt I missed your point. Just because I didn't disagree with it doesn't mean I didn't see it. And nothing I said ran contraire to what you said. I've said it multiple times throughout this thread, I also believe that respecs should have some cost or consequence and should not be a frequent event. This is in line of what you're supporting.
I have played D&D. There are parallels between their stat systems and Fractured's. But I disagree that, in Fractured, stats ARE the build. At least, not yet, anyway. The closest thing I could see to that is magic missile scaling with int. Stats are otherwise pretty negligible in builds. Speaking of D&D, your DM allowed respecs?
I don't think I made any points about people pressuring respecs. I think you're confusing me with Manaia? Is that where you think I've been insulting? Really, though, this is bothering me more than it should
Where did I insult you or other players? I'm not a big fan of baseless accusations. I've upvoted all (I don't think I've missed any) of the posts that I've replied to because I think it's healthy for discourse. I believe your opinions should be acknowledged and not misrepresented.TL;DR: We have largely the same opinion on this topic. And you're baselessly accusing me of insulting other people on this board.
-
@Tuoni said in Concerns related to the attributes:
If I am e.g. a master crafter of swords and a bounty hunter who tries to catch criminals, I bet those determines my characters identity much more rather than attribute points in the background.
Thanks for the thought out reply. I like the detailed explanation behind your rationale. I think we share similar viewpoints here. I wanted to quote this small section of it to follow up on, not to discard or dismiss the rest of your post, which I largely agree with.
My big thing about identity goes as follows, hopefully I present it well enough. If your (collective, not you you) mastercrafter of swords and bounty hunter is your character's identity, would you not distribute attributes in a way that aligns and ties in with that character? That is an assumption I would make and I would assume others make. I am likely wrong in my assumptions, and I'm sure there is some sort of bias there. Given that assumption (and if I'm wrong with that assumption, none of the rest of this matters), severely changing your attributes will, likely, severely change who your character is.
Ignoring attributes, what I don't want to see is mastercrafter of swords and bounty hunter by day, BATTLEMAGE BY NIGHT! What I would rather see is mastercrafter of swords and bounty hunter by day, hold my beer, I wanna try something by night! To expand on this, let's add attributes to this scenario. Our attributes would be "locked" (remember, I've conceded that attribute respecs can exist with a cost/cooldown associated to it) to our mastercrafter of the swords and bounty hunter character, but it doesn't stop him from using any other ability that he wants to. Him and his battlemage roommate can go around casting magic missile into the darkness. Builds are still available to him, but Gandalf's magic will still be a little stronger than Boba Fett's.
One man's opinion...
-
@Manaia said in Concerns related to the attributes:
My question to you:
Can you go deeper into how you'd like to see it? Go into more details of the "Your supporting details" section that I mentioned. How often is too often? Any other mechanics involved, or just a simple interface "restat" button?When I started this thread I had no idea what is planned regarding to possibility to change attribute points. I am pleased to hear that most likely we all get one reroll and after that the reroll option can be purchased from the cash shop. I would say that is the minimum what we should get. However, this discussion popped up some good points why we should have this reroll option more often. If game mechanic changes or balancing fixes affects to the builds in way that people would want/need to reroll, then it would be reasonable to have a chance to reroll attributes for free. This became an issue in Albion like I mentioned before but the developers made a fix and at the moment those rerolls can be done almost from fly. I am not sure if Fractured needs that easy system but I think devs should monitor this during beta test phases. I am not sure if the option to get reroll only from cash shop is the best idea and I would prefer more a free reroll with a cooldown system (perhaps once / month) and on top of that the cash shop reroll option.
I think this kind of package would tackle the character creation mistakes, game mechanic/balance changes and would leave some options for situations when players get bored and just want to try something else out.
-
@Mindark said in Concerns related to the attributes:
@Tuoni said in Concerns related to the attributes:
If I am e.g. a master crafter of swords and a bounty hunter who tries to catch criminals, I bet those determines my characters identity much more rather than attribute points in the background.
Thanks for the thought out reply. I like the detailed explanation behind your rationale. I think we share similar viewpoints here. I wanted to quote this small section of it to follow up on, not to discard or dismiss the rest of your post, which I largely agree with.
My big thing about identity goes as follows, hopefully I present it well enough. If your (collective, not you you) mastercrafter of swords and bounty hunter is your character's identity, would you not distribute attributes in a way that aligns and ties in with that character? That is an assumption I would make and I would assume others make. I am likely wrong in my assumptions, and I'm sure there is some sort of bias there. Given that assumption (and if I'm wrong with that assumption, none of the rest of this matters), severely changing your attributes will, likely, severely change who your character is.
About crafting skills, I am not sure if attributes have any impact to professions, I presume not, and if those do, I really hope it is a very minor effect. I can be a bounty hunter and still play a whatever role, class or build, however, most likely it would be either melee or ranged DPS because we are talking about ganking. This can easily be a group activity as well so I would not drop tank/healer options totally out either. So I would say that I would not distribute attribute points in mind that I am going to craft swords and do bounty hunting.
Ignoring attributes, what I don't want to see is mastercrafter of swords and bounty hunter by day, BATTLEMAGE BY NIGHT! What I would rather see is mastercrafter of swords and bounty hunter by day, hold my beer, I wanna try something by night! To expand on this, let's add attributes to this scenario. Our attributes would be "locked" (remember, I've conceded that attribute respecs can exist with a cost/cooldown associated to it) to our mastercrafter of the swords and bounty hunter character, but it doesn't stop him from using any other ability that he wants to. Him and his battlemage roommate can go around casting magic missile into the darkness. Builds are still available to him, but Gandalf's magic will still be a little stronger than Boba Fett's.
I kind of answered to this one post earlier where I told what kind of system would be the best possible guess atm and imo, so you can check it from there. ^^
I want to comment to that highlighted part. I guess this can be the case if both have a very balanced attribute distribution but if we are talking about min/maxers the power gap will be huge and the Boba Fett will more tickle the enemies rather than doing any serious damage.
