Good Guild Vs Good Guild PvP?
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If the following is two statements are true...
"You can steal items from the inventory of unconscious players, flagging you as a thief in the process. You can't steal gear though unless you kill them, which flags you as a murderer."
How does one GvG? If my guild says to KOS guild xyz on sight that would flag me as a murderer and affect my Karma? However should war affect one's Karma? Or does the guild leader have to "I declare war on XYZ" to avoid flags?
Also how does one fight over an asteroid if good cannot attack unprovoked and only defend? Am I flagged only as a murderer on the asteroid then I go back to being a saint when I return home? Or am i expected to just get smashed by an enemy guild, regroup, return only to find all resources and my enemy long gone?
I understand that Humans are allowed to PvP on Syndesia whenever (free will and all). However is this really the case? The ruleset implies Good PvP is murder. If a group of good humans (perhaps guildless) decide enough is enough and siege a human town or to KOS a human guild, that would be evil? Honestly, im so confused.
I can live with being Neutral and with the aggressive flag (I've been called worse) but the thief and murder flag? The chunk of Karma? Or are all Human's batman and simply don't kill. Originally when I started reading the forums I thought to myself, Why is it that only Demons want to PVP? Humans can have blood lust just like demons... the more I read about Karma and game mechanics, I'm starting to understand. When I first read about this game, I thought swords and tech? bow with muntions? demon carnage everywhere? sign me up...
Seems like a GOOD human guild should be able to defend their borders (before they are attacked). I'm not an evil dude, no interest in griefing. But you may have missed the sign saying this mine has be claimed, so either move along or... I have no idea why there would be restrictions on good human guilds (karma loss) who want to PvP... or developers believe Humans are simply livestock for demons? Having a "Good" flag should not be a PVP pass meaning I will do and say whatever I like. In a PvP game, words have meaning and actions have consequence, or IMHO they should.
GvG is one of the biggest features... I gotta be missing something... Can beastmen GvG or is GvG only intended for demons? Not all sieges are political, some are for resources, some are simply personal... For a Good guild to siege another Good guild is evil?
Guess ill miss my karma.
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Reading this has left me even more confused.
any race can kill, but this affects their karma, in the case of war between the guilds, karma will probably be affected, humans have a neutral karma making them have more freedom in choosing good or evil.
I hope I have succeeded in taking some of your doubts.
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Can someone be good and be aggressive/offensive? and under what circumstances?
Sorry, I should have clarified, this question is mainly about remaining good and good karma...
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In the case of murder or theft, the player who committed the act will be marked, and killing him will not affect his karma, that is, mate and will not be punished, basically it is possible to be good and aggressive in certain cases.
Karma ends up being a big subject in my opinion because it affects a lot in the gameplay of the player.
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@tsoo said in Good Guild Vs Good Guild PvP?:
Can someone be good and be aggressive/offensive? and under what circumstances?
Sorry, I should have clarified, this question is mainly about remaining good and good karma...
I don't think you can be Good and have an Aggressive flag since a Good player can't hurt a Good or Neutral player and attacking an Evil player has no consequences and actually gains you Karma.
So for a Good guild to attack another Good guild, they'd have to rest and change Alignment to at least Neutral (and suffer the Karma loss for damaging non-evil players). Of course, you could always designate a few people to actually execute knocked down players so only they get Murderer flags. The karma loss can be offset by hunting down Evil/Aggressive players or Evil monsters. How long that might take is unknown.
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@tsoo said in Good Guild Vs Good Guild PvP?:
How does one GvG? If my guild rules state to KOS guild xyz on sight that would flag me as a murderer and affect my Karma? However should war affect one's Karma? Or does the guild leader have to "I declare war on XYZ" to avoid flags?
We don't know much about guild vs guild on Syndesia, but I'm guessing that guilds will be able to declare war on other guilds which will ignore any alignment restrictions and karma change on PvP against enemy guild members.
I can live with being Neutral and with the aggressive flag (I've been called worse) but the thief and murder flag? The chunk of Karma?
Good aligned players are restricted by the game from all hostile actions against other good and non-flagged neutral players while hostile actions against evil players won't flag you and will actually give you karma . I believe this should make good players incapable of being flagged as thieves and murderers and it will likely be impossible for them to lose karma from PvP actions.
Also how does one fight over an asteroid if good cannot attack unprovoked and only defend?
You can freely attack evil players (and I believe neutral players that are flagged) without provocation.
Keep in mind that alignment in general is pretty fluid on Syndesia and can be changed on rest with karma limiting your options. A person with high positive karma can choose to be evil, neutral, or good. Once your karma drops below a certain threshold, you can only pick evil and neutral, and once it drops low enough, you can only pick evil.
I can't remember if alignment based guilds were completely dropped or not, but they were a thing at one point, but now guilds are planet based. If a non-alignment restricted "good" human guild wanted to patrol their borders against not-at-war good aligned players, they can have members flagged as neutral and deal with the karma consequences.
Can beastmen GvG
Not on Arboreus, but they can on Syndesia if they're part of a Syndesia guild.
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@target much appreciated
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i'd assume the guild and alliance system will offer wars which will allow you to attack, although maybe not kill, players of the opposing guild/alliance. at least on the Human planet. Beast planet you can't even attack another good player. demon planet doesn't really care what you do.
i also assume beast and humans killing demons is normal and wont affect their karma. or at least they can be knocked out but not killed.
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The karma system will have a lot to do with it too I think.
I'm on the bus so if someone could please throw a link to the info it would be appreciated.
Thanks
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@trelia
i dont think it's been mentioned, actually.
we assume a good guild wouldn't want to attack another good guild. I feel like there should be a type of war declaration on the human planet but i'm not sure what would happen on the beast planet.the beast planet will need a way to deal with bots, and a war dec would allow that but they usually dont join guilds.
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@jetah when you say we you mean developers? "Good" nations war all the time normally over territory, resources, money or beliefs. This does not deem either evil, they just disagree and their disagreement is resolved through war.
Unfortunately, most have experienced times in non-pvp games where someone just consistently spams chat with demeaning if not vulgar chat. They kill steal simply because they are bored and want to frustrate you. They train mobs on you because they cant kill you... and so on and so forth. If "Good" alignment meant a "Good" person then I would agree. But karma is a game mechanic, and I'm willing to bet, "good" people will find a way to grief others without losing karma. Heck, I'd be good with a community vote of flagging someone as "undesirable" or "nuisance" and therefor making that individual open to attack for a fixed time within a fixed biome.
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@tsoo
in this game a good alignment means you aren't killing other good players. it means you aren't killing neutral players but you can knock them out.so yes good here means a good guild shouldn't be out to kill another good guild.
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@jetah much appreciated.
That helps me to reconcile the concepts of GvG and Karma. Good in fractured does not mean just or virtuous, it means "I choose PvP under certain conditions". Neutral means "I choose to PvP under a larger variety of conditions" and not indifferent. Evil means"I choose to PvP under any condition".
I was thinking of Good from more of a role playing aspect (which of course was my first problem). Damn labels. Cause in my mind its very possible to have a good (non-fractured mmo definition) demon guild. Good as in defined by their actions not by their label.
"light bulb". Thx bro.
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A good guild attacking another good guild by sieging their town should get alot of extra negative karma for doing that. As a punishment for being major dikcs.
Having said that. A sandbox should have the option to do that, right?
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Good in fractured does not mean just or virtuous, it means "I choose PvP under certain conditions". Neutral means "I choose to PvP under a larger variety of conditions" and not indifferent. Evil means"I choose to PvP under any condition".
that's a good way of seeing it!
@Benseine
we should have that option yes. but i doubt it'll happen.
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Maybe it ought to be "Picky Vs Indiscriminate," instead of "Good vs Evil," or maybe "Order vs. Chaos" in the SMT vein
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Assuming that the guild you are fighting is Good/Neutral then likely there will be a war system.
The key things with any war system need to be as follows:
- Not too expensive (such that small guilds can declare war against other small guilds).
- Not too abusive (such that a guild cannot declare war against everyone to cheat the system as a KOS guild against all).
Those two points are where I see so many war systems fail in these games. The second in particular is common, and results in the entire system being nothing but a waste of time on the part of the devs.
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@therippyone
i'd prefer to see holy and evil or good and bad. to always call the negative karma evil and the positive good doesn't do the evil justice or doesn't do the good justice. good and bad are opposites, holy and evil are opposites but mixing them is just blasphemy.
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So far we know only Arboreus will not allow good vs good attacks.
Other 2 planets will, with appropriate flagging and karma consequences. As simple as that.
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@gothix said in Good Guild Vs Good Guild PvP?:
Other 2 planets will, with appropriate flagging and karma consequences. As simple as that.
If you're referring to individual PvP, that's not true. The point of being good aligned is that you don't have to worry at all about hostility from other good aligned players and others don't have to worry about you. It's supposed to remove all doubt about hostile intentions. It's what makes this game more casual friendly than Albion.
If you're referring to GvG then we just don't have that information.
