Trading As a Skill
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Trading.
Have you noticed that trading in most mmo’s is not dedicated skill??? Its just an occupation. If you have money you can become a trader. That’s it. And this is no good. Ladies and gentleman I give you THE TRADING. LOL. No really. Hear me out.
From now on we have trading skill, so if you wanna level up in this skill you have to trade. Sounds a bit stupid for beginning, but yet…so. Every city market have to offer special option – TRADING.
How it work? Say you have 20 teirs of resourses of wood for example. So city market which operated by governore or guild leader have to offer resources of all teirs in exchange of special certificates. (explain later) So governore (or guild representative) come to his market and load it with 1000 wood of t1, 500 wood of t2, 250 wood of t3, and 100 wood of t4. And wait for traders. Say im a trader and I have 100 certificates. 100 t1 wood cost 10 certificates, so I take all 1000 t1 wood for all my 100 certificates, and while im doing this my trading level is growing, so later when im done with t1 wood and my level is up, I can trade for t2 wood, and later for t3, and t4, and t5 etc.
Now. Where to get certificates? And why we need this crap in a first place? And how to make people use this system?First. These certificates are printed by king of any city or guild master who own the city (superior power). They are labeled. So everyone know, they have certificate of that particular city. They can be printed in any amount, endlessly. They can be sold and bought on a market by king or guild master, but mostly they will be given to royal traders to exchange resources for them from other cities.
Second. Why we need this? Cities have sort of competitions. They need to collect more certificates of other cities, then those cities have their own (cert). So, for example city 1 (c1) have 100 cert of city 2 (c2) and c2 have 50 cert of c1, so, that mean that we apply next formula – 100/50x2=4, (which equals 4), this means that c2 will be paying to c1 4% of all city market transactions, I mean every time when some one sell something on city market of c2, the c1 will get 4% of it. BUT!!!
For c2 next formula is true 50/100x2=1 (which is equal 1), this mean that c1 will be paying 1% from all city market deals to c2. So, 4% minus 1%=3% its a profit of c1. They still have to pay to each other but c1 have more money (3%) then c2 just cos it has twice as much certificates then c2. Numbers can be any just any numbers but formula works always the same way, say for example 5834/3295x2 = 3,54% (this how much looser pays to winner), and vice versa, then its counts what is a profit.
Why we need it? This system stimulate trading and interaction between cities. Important thing is that some arias has some resources and they don’t have others, and the other way around, so but cities can trade simply by money and they can ignore this system, so we cant really make people use it. But one day one king or guild leader would want to be an asshole and he will give an order to stop sell top res on a market and only would want to trade for certificates. If he do it then the other city, who very much in need of these res, will have to print cert and give it to that city, and if they wont do the same, then "asshole" city can have up to 40% tax and enslave that poor city. So all cities have to produce a lot of top res and work harder to win.
However, you cant just trade for top res, but you have to have army of traders with high level of trading skill to be able to trade for top level res. To make this army, you have to trade for low level res as well, and since one trading deal takes a lot of time say from 1 to 10 hours, then you will need a lot of traders of both high a low levels. Everyone.
So, these are formulas of how to calculate % tax. There cant be less then 40% tax. Even this is counts like a economical collaps. But there are city religions. So if one economy collapsed people can create a revolution and change a religion along with ruling guild and governor, and in this case all state debts goes to zero. So this is a way out, also religions give a lots of good stuff.
Below these are formulas which shows you what percentage could be depending on ratio of nombers, so 100 can be a number but in this case its more of percentages. so number can be 1000 on 900 which is the same as 100 on 90.
100/95х2=2,1; 95/100х2=1,9; profit 0,2
100/90х2=2,2; 90/100х2=1,8; profit 0,4
100/85х2=2,35; 85/100х2=1,7; profit 0,65
100/80х2=2,5; 80/100х2=1,6; profit 0,9
100/75х2=2,6; 75/100х2=1,5; profit 1,1
100/70х2=2,85; 70/100х2=1,4; profit 1,45
100/65х2=3,07; 65/100х2=1,3; profit 1,77
100/60х2=3,33; 60/100х2=1,2; profit 2,13
100/55 х2=3,63; 55/100х2=1,1; profit 2,53
100/50х2=4; 50/100х2=1; profit 3
100/45х2=4,4; 45/100х2=0,9; profit 3,5
100/40х2=5; 40/100х2=0,8; profit 4,2
100/35х2=5,71; 35/100х2=0,7; profit 5,01
100/30х2=6,66; 30/100х2=0,6; profit 6,06
100/25х2=8; 25/100х2=0,5; profit 7,5
100/20х2=10; 20/100х2=0,4; profit 9,6
100/15х2=13,33; 15/100х2=0,3; profit 13,03
100/10х2=20; 10/100х2=0,2; profit 19,08
100/5х2=40; 5/100х2=0,1; profit 39,9
This system will stimulate cities to trade with each other and it will make them to trade with everyone, however it can be the reason for big war. It’s a trading war anyway. But people have free choice. If they don’t have a special resources to offer they cant make others give them their certificates.
PS - Just if i wasnt clear enough - (you have top wood), (i dont have top wood), but (i have top ore) and (you dont have a top ore), so to (get your top wood) i can simply buy it, but maybe you dont wanna sell it anymore and maybe be you say "i only exchange my top wood for your certificates, give them to me!!!" So, if i give you my certificates you will posses them which means i will pay you tribute for every market transactions, cos you have like a 1000 of my certificatess and i got none of yours, BUT!!!! (i have top ore) and (you dont have it) but (you need it) so i say "Well, since you give me your wood only for my certificates then i give you my ore only for your certificates, so now you will start paying me tribute too".
But to be able to exchange resources for certificates you must have player with special skill - Trader. you cant exchange top resources if you have like 1st level of trading. You must progress in it, to be able to do top, for that you must start exchanging on low level resources and keep doing it with many traders of different levels. To be able to compit in this trading war you have to have a lots of traders since one trading deal take a lot of time (of negotiation). Also all prices are fixed, so its not very free market, cos if you make it free, then price for resources per one certificate will skyrocketing jump up. Everyone will try to raise the price. As higher level is resourse as more time and cetrificates is require to be able to get it. However trader can have sub-skill called Negotiation and i if for eaxample you trade for 10 top ore which supposadly cost 100 cert. and its a fixed price by game, then with Negotiation you can get it say for 90 certificates or maybe 50 if your have this sub-skill on maximum.
Thats it. And now everything will depend on economy. We will start great "rat race" called Economy Wars. (which is complitely optional)
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so tldr you pay less taxes with the skill?
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@lovechildbell said in Trading As a Skill:
so tldr you pay less taxes with the skill?
no mate, you really have to read to understand. you can just read bottom part says PS.
skill give you like a weapon in cities trading wars. so as a trader you are economic warrior of your own city or planet. you pay less tax to other city if you use those traders for your city.
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First of all I want to admit that I did not 100% read and thought about everything you wrote, but here are my thoughts neverthenless.
@boogis said in Trading As a Skill:
How it work? Say you have 20 teirs of resourses of wood for example.
Resources don´t have any "quality" or "tier" system in Fractured. Resources only are either easy to get or rare to find. Also in crafting there is no tier system. If you craft a longsword with iron, you get a longsword whith properties from iron, if you craft it with wood you get a longsword with properties from wood (the quality or tier or whatever stays the same).
So, as far as I know, trading with other cities / player / guilds whatever is a necessity, but when you want to sell your resources, you sell them do an NPC, which then selles them to another player.
So going with the current system, a Trading skill, could maybe reduce the tax cost, maybe there is a limit on how much you can sell, which would be increased with the Trading skill, maybe something like that is already planned anyways.
I think there currently is not enough information yet on the trading system. I think your idea is very intersting, but wether it is worth considering or not, I think we should wait until it get´s more clear how the trading is currently envisioned in Fractured.
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@eurav thank u for your responce, i see that u didnt read it all cos obviously tier is just an example, you could tell if u read it all. its just indicator of some top res (hard to get, in certain aria etc) and more common res like low tier. obviously the wood which grows next to the city is more common, but maybe if there is a lack of this wood in other city then it can be obviously used in economic wars that im suggesting. please read all or at least last paragraph PS
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@boogis don´t worry, I did read that much, I just wanted to clarify that, not that somebody else mistakenly thinks there are tiers of wood and so. What I kind of did not read are your calculations and numbers
But yeah, I think before we start talking about changing it / adding something to it, it would be nice to know how it actually is currently. Obviously we can´t really tell how trading will work out until we play the game, but I think more information on how trading is currently envisioned between cities and guilds would help us a lot in this conversation.
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@eurav sure mate no worries. but i really recomend pay attention to culculation cos its just shows the progress. for example if you have 100 cert and i have only 5 then i will pay you like 40% tribute (this is maximum) this a lot and this is collaps. in this case people will get rid of guild and governore ruling the city. but say you have like double amount then my amount then i will pay u only like 4%. so its not that crazy unless you are really gave up on trading.
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This sounds like a horrible idea. Trading between players offers more interaction and promotes healthy communities in mmos. The more systems in place to automate things that players should be doing themselves limits social interaction further. Mmorpgs are all about social interaction with other players.
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@dagimir I have to agree with you, the simpler, the better. The reason I'm excited about this game is because there is more freedom than most other MMO's who look to automate everything, even the experience (ie WoW).
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@Dagimir @Crowdac
you guys dont bother to read shit, do you?
how come its automated? its even oposite. it create a healthy communitys. its creates social ineractions. its funny when people dont understant what they are talking about and blame you for not having something what you are actually having. YOU ARE NOT LIMITED IN USUAL TRADING. you can trade with old fashioned way, this skill just open you additional oportunity to have trading between cities, thats all. you can have like trading competitions, trading wars, if i may, it opens up more oportunities in game, not limiting one. OMG@boogis said in Trading As a Skill:
Thats it. And now everything will depend on economy. We will start great "rat race" called Economy Wars. (which is complitely optional)
its optional, ok?
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this is maybe one of the best ideas i´ve seen 10/10
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@ekador said in Trading As a Skill:
this is maybe one of the best ideas i´ve seen 10/10
if its not sarcasm then thanks a lot, mate.
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@boogis Nah, not ok. You don't have to act like an offended jerk because we do not agree. Also it would be semi automated. You would literally be creating a small automated trading post for materials between cities for certs. It doesn't matter how you cut it, that is what you explained. Also your english is bad enough that it wouldn't be far fetched to say that your post could be difficult to understand.
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@dagimir oh sorry mr english man, excuse my english. my english is vaaaary bad. ima sooo soooorry, sinyor. your english is perfect, let me suck your cock.
its no automated. you as a governore or some other representative have to load up your market with those res and traders have to come and start trading for them. i cant see why is it different from what you usualy do on a market. whats a difference either you trade for money or trade for cert? only with cert it takes more time and this is only because to limite numbers of traders at the same time since certificates are printed my other city governore freely and they dont need time to be produced (not like money) so we have to compencate this.
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@boogis said in Trading As a Skill:
@dagimir oh sorry mr english man, excuse my english. my english is vaaaary bad. ima sooo soooorry, sinyor. your english is perfect, let me suck your cock.
Just wanted to warn you that your comments are getting pretty toxic. I understand that you are frustrated, but maybe you could convey your frustration in a less vulgar manner.
p.s. I do find your idea of having economical wars between cities quite interesting. It would especially work well in Syndesia, since it has a feudal government system. This would even open up positions for Directors of Trade in cities, and maybe they could issue certificates.
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@wolfkomodo46 i know im getting toxic cos i used word cock. but this person is pointing at my english, im not pointing at his russian level even if he really suck in it. this is degrading for this person, to do this is very meanness. if he cant control himself why should i?
my english is so basic that even idiots can understand it, why he doesnt?im agree, it will suit syndesia most.
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Calm down everyone. There's no need to resort to namecalling.
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I have no idea why you're so angry when people disagree with your thread. I personally think a good trade system is one where they allow players to dictate the economy, not something you do with NPC or some crap that lets you get better simply because you do more trade. Simply put the auction house tax at 5~10% (a low enough amount) and let people trade whatever they want. THAT is true trade I appreciate as an economist, not some crap you automatically get better as you do more of it. No. You can lose money even as a very experienced person in a stock market. What trade helps with is the growth of the player as a person, not a flimsy game character that will automatically be BETTER than someone else. You have to understand that even the lowest of the low has a chance at trading as long as they know what they're doing. This is how you hear stories about people trading a pin into a house or a pen into a car.
So basically I'm saying don't dumb down trading into a crap system that the devs have to waste their time on. We don't need a bunch of garbage rules because that is not how the free market works.
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@chrightt said in Trading As a Skill:
I have no idea why you're so angry
you have to work on your ego dude? you think you are so important in my life that you can make me angry? i just do it to put your ago down, you peice of crap. or you think you caan call my idea crap and i cant call you the same, idiot?
@chrightt said in Trading As a Skill:
when people disagree with your thread.
not because you disagree just because you an idiot.
@chrightt said in Trading As a Skill:
THAT is true trade I appreciate as an economist
f**ck, you are real economist? you must be made of gold, dude. two economist worked on my idea and it has true economy pricipals. so back off, smart ass.
@specter said in Trading As a Skill:
Calm down everyone. There's no need to resort to namecalling.
moderator told you to calm down, why you continiue this shit? f**k off @chrightt.
Note: @specter you see i didnt start it, he keep doing this shit, tell him.
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let's take it easy, the topics are open for each one to expose their thinking on a particular subject, there is no need to be exchanging offenses.
