'Legolas Quiver'
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Just curious what led to arrows being removed? I don't really mind, it hardly makes a difference, arrows were so easy to make, I just feel silly pulling arrows out of thin air
I liked that you needed arrows, they were already so unrealistic; easy to make, carry massive amounts, all it really meant was that you occasionally ran out mid-fight if you didn't keep track; not a big deal, but a little thing that you had to keep in mind.
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@Mirgannel12 A lot of players were complaining about the weight it required to carry so many arrows around with them. This is especially true of the casual archers who only carried a bow because they were a melee character but wanted to be able to pull mobs and hunt rabbits/foxes/deer...etc
Serious Archers were carrying around serious stacks of Arrows, or the parts to combine in the wild to make them, and even then, they were complaining about the weight, but they were actually carrying enough to not run out, and they were monitoring their arrow stash, and the 'casual' archers were not, and running out when they were like 2/3 of the way through killing like a rabbit or fox or something.
Personally, I don't play the archery skill much at all, but would love to see Arrows still required, but maybe making their weight lower and stack size larger to compensate. Maybe divide the weight by 10, and multiply the stack size for arrows by 10 to compensate. They could also make it so more arrowheads/shafts are crafted per raw material used, but maybe add in feathers once bird mobs are added as part of the mix.
Who's to say, that's what Betas are for though, to balance this stuff out.
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I had the same discussion here:
https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/14964/arrows-where-did-they-go
It just feels really weird not having arrows in a bow and arrow build........
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@GamerSeuss said in 'Legolas Quiver':
would love to see Arrows still required, but maybe making their weight lower and stack size larger to compensate
I think this is the real solution. Removing a feature (and a low end economy item) doesn't seem like the right approach to me.
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I never had a problem with the weight personally, does anyone remember the exact weight for a stack? in terms of balancing a game mechanic I admit arrows might need to be lightened, but realistically they were already almost weightless, it was a stack of 200 wasn't it? I feel like it would seriously mess up balancing and be extremely exploitable, but would fewer arrows with higher damage be a possibility? perhaps with archery having close range disadvantages? I suppose there's no way I'd be happy with it whatever they do
I usually only use the bow for initial strikes and bow skills, or while they are incapacitated and I can back off for a few shots out of their range, but it seems that, unrealistic as it is, using a bow in melee range works as well as switching to a melee weapon, particularly if you have an archer build. (except for the problems with targeting at close range
) Do other people just use a bow all the time even in melee range?
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Shooting for one hour requires around 3000 arrows.
If I remember correctly, the 200 arrow stack was 5kg. 3000 were 75 kg.
Granted, you didn't bring arrows, you brought arrow heads, but it still meant that you had to continously stop gathering branches.
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I enjoyed the progression and variety of different arrow types.. It gave less useful drops some purpose. The system just brought some depth.
I would have liked to see this go the way of New World where the arrows became weightless in the quiver and increased stack sizes for quality of life.. Accomplishes the same things, doesn't remove the depth, and it reintroduces the progression of arrow types.
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After having finally managed to get in game for a bit yesterday, I really don't care about arrows anymore
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@Vortech there was never progression in arrows though.
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@spoletta Did metal arrow heads make more powerful arrows? were they intended to? I seem to remember that they still only made stone arrows...
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Metal arrows were never added.
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@spoletta but weren't there metal arrowheads? craftable at forges? I'm sure I remember seeing them at one point...
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Yeah, we had arrowheads, but no metal arrows
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@spoletta said in 'Legolas Quiver':
@Vortech there was never progression in arrows though.
I'm pretty sure we had bone and stone before? Start picking up stones, make arrows.. Kill things with bones, start making arrows with those.. etc
Definitely would have been nice or would have benefited from more variations.. Metal etc.. stat increases.. etc
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There were no stats tied to arrows.
Bone and stone ones were identical.
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@spoletta said in 'Legolas Quiver':
There were no stats tied to arrows.
Bone and stone ones were identical.
? As I said "Definitely would have been nice or would have benefited from more variations.. Metal etc.. stat increases.. etc"
Maybe you are confused by the progression I was referring to? It would have been nice if they had different stats as I said.. But the progression as I explained, was in ease of gathering and the efficiency/value each material represented as you progressed.
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@Vortech It would be cool to have different arrow types and stats for different materials, but that would of course be something that non-archers don't have.
Personally I dislike that games need to 'balance' weapons; even if you suck with a bow, there is no disadvantage to taking a few shots at the guy before he gets into melee range, and even the worst archer can kill the best warrior, archery is inherently unbalanced.
I like the idea of having different weapons as situational/strategic, where you can start with a long ranged weapon, then go to melee, but thats starting to get off topic.I do see what you mean about 'crafting progression' stones are heavier but dont require anything to aquire, where bones are lighter and you can carry more for future arrows, once you manage to kill something to get them (though I believe the stone/bone arrow heads weighed the same?) and without different stats its really not so interesting.
That being said, and this could be applied to lots of other things in the game; if done correctly weight can be a very good balancing mechanic; more powerful but heavier and more expensive VS lighter, less powerful but cheaper (Morrowind did this brilliantly)
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It is subjective that does players like to have arrows or not in the game but I think that following points have affected to the decision to remove arrows from the game:
- Weight
- Resource management
- Balance
Arrows caused extra weight and extra work to just shoot with your basic attacks. Yeah it can be a nice extra feature, however, in long run it can turn more like a chore to craft thousands and thousand of arrows just to play the game as a bow user. Of course this can be balanced by dropping weight and make the crafting produce more arrows in one session, however, soon we are in a situation that why to have arrows in the first place. Moreover, this arrow management is not balanced with other playstyles because melee and magic does not need similiar extra resource management.
For example, Runescape has arrows but also runes for mages to deal with and therefore, both ranged playstyles has this balanced resource management build in the game. WoW had (back in the days) arrows and magic reagents management as well but it was removed because it did not give any value to the game, extra hassle just to play the game.
I do not have a strong opinion on this topic but I guess it is nice from a bow user pov that you can straight hop into the action and you do not need to deal with the arrows first.
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If you want special effect arrows why not just treat it like poison is treated now?
Create a consumable item, when applied to a bow it gives X charges and for that time the bow is shooting something special.
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@Tuoni Yeah, I think those are the reasons why they were removed as well.
Personally, I love fletching. It's immersive and it provides more accessible variety when it comes to physical damage types and status effects such as making blunt arrows/bolts, piercing arrows/bolts, slashing arrows/bolts, arrows/bolts that can bleed, arrows/bolts that can poison which we already had that with the poison paste, et cetera.
However, encumbrance and inventory space absolutely become an issue like you said whenever we have to fletch and carry ammunition in addition to the Archer becoming useless the moment they suddenly run out of said ammunition. What if there are no trees and small stones nearby? They are screwed and will have to rely on other means of dealing damage, and I suppose the solution for that would be to add a spell that allows Archers to use their mana to shoot Mana Arrows/Bolts that are weaker than physical arrows/bolts unless they spec into it (INT and INT-based talents).
I would love to have it back, but I understand why it wouldn't make a return based on history that repeated itself across MMOs that once had ammunition.
