What kind of game do you hope Fractured will be?
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So I had a good conversation with @Tuoni regarding attribute points and we're on the different side of opinions. It made me think, what does the majority of the forum-posters think about this? Granted, forum posters are the smallest amount of users, next to forum lurkers and then non-forum players - but having this info could be useful!
My advocacy is for more RPG, character identity is important to me and I don't like having a blank slate that can be changed "on the fly" or easy enough. Think yellow lotus potion in Conan Exiles, if you're familiar - and that's a sandbox survival where it makes more sense than an RPG! And that game can't have alts!
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Sandbox based, but where "flexibility" comes with the cost. So your choices still matter.
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it becomes what was stated during kickstarter and on the website.
i dont want it to start as that and end up as a full pay to convenience games which rivals a mobile game.
clippy pops up after you walk for 3 seconds, asking you to buy a mount from the store.. will be so annoying.
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I wish there was a third option that desired a mixture of the two.
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The MMO I played the most is Lineage 2. Back in the early 2000s, if I started a party I'd find a bunch of DDs instantly, but finding tanks, healers and supports was a pain. If the tank or healer left, the party was over. This pushed people into multiboxing characters and eventually starting "constant parties" and sharing accounts. For any big content you needed to talk to the other CPs in advance to be sure the guild had the right people online.
Last MMO I played was Albion. At first, I was one of the core members of a small guild with about 10 online players at any time of the day and we pretty much did everything together. I'd find a spot instantly to whatever the guild was doing. If the puller, tank or healer left, they'd pass the gear to someone else and we basically had no downtime. Then we merged and I decided to move to a crystal guild, which opened the possibility of zvz for me. For any big content, people would call a CTA in alliance, parties were created and the class balance was done on the spot with a downtime of about 30min.
It's worth mentioning that Albion has a quite grindy passives system, so a dedicated healer will be better stat-wise than a last-resort healer. Another aspect would be how meta changes and the nerfs/buffs between patches, which are the reason Albion added the respec points. Basically, if your character is built around a skill or mechanic that gets nerfed too much in one patch, it becomes borderline useless.
tl;dr: I prefer flexibility because it saves people a lot of time, and I believe it doesn't necessarily have to kill the RPG aspect.
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While personally I prefer choices that matter and hence voted Option A, I'm with @Jetah, the game should become what was announced in the Kickstarter and that's more along the lines of Option B. Select a target audience and stick with it during the course of development, otherwise, you're going to make nobody happy but a lot of people unhappy.
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@Logain said in What kind of game do you hope Fractured will be?:
Select a target audience and stick with it during the course of development, otherwise, you're going to make nobody happy but a lot of people unhappy.
Absolutely - they shouldn't change their vision, though if they discover a lot of people (which let's face it, this poll isn't exactly representative of "a lot") show they'd prefer something then they can make minor alterations to their vision to keep it in tact but closer on the scale to the preference. If that means what I think I'm trying to say
In the other thread I mentioned a gradual stat redistribution over time to allow your character to feel like it's transitioning instead of just exporting/importing a template. I'm possibly horribly in the wrong with this mentality, though the poll ratio (not volume) shows otherwise. I'm hoping this thread kicks up more traction and more people vote! We can all be passionate and respectful about people with opposing thoughts at the same time, that makes for great discussion!
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@Manaia Hmmmm... I think the question could be just RPG or Sandbox because a game can be a flexible sandbox and still be taken account character choises, immersion, consistency and vice versa.
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@Tuoni I did think about having a third option for them being equal. I'm not sure if I didn't specify the question good enough or if people are reading too quickly (not a jab) and not fully comprehending it. The game obviously is going to be both an RPG and sandbox, but if it was a slider, which point would they gravitate to more. That's eventually why I ended up with having only the two options. Having an "equal" option would basically be the same as "I don't care" in my mind.
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I'm not voting on this... I've got some major Gemini in my chart and we respond to every apparent dichotomy with "Can't I have some of each?" We are the reason for swirly softserv
I'm learning so much here about what the conventions are in different sorts of games than the ones I'm used to - and new words like 'theorycrafting'! It's certain that by launch, I'll have an opinion about what would've been the best possible thing but right now I'm just curious and wide open to the cool stuff the devs are laying out and the information that will help me build a fun & sustainable toon.
That said, my background in theater and D&D makes me love a fully-developed PC that's got backstory and internal consistency, even as I recognize I'll probably totally fubar my first attempt. Whether, at that point, I can someways tweak what I've already done or have to start over is (to me) a bridge I'll cross when I get there.
Just to introduce a possibility that hasn't been discussed
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In Game of Thrones Ascent, there was a reincarnation system that allowed players to start over as a new PC (in a different 'house' w different strengths & learnable skills) but with all the learned skills of your previous PCs and all the sworn swords you'd collected still there (although you had to level up to use increasing numbers of them).Reincarnating was a total pain but the people who managed to do all the houses were truly mega on the battlefield.
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@Manaia said in What kind of game do you hope Fractured will be?:
@Tuoni I did think about having a third option for them being equal. I'm not sure if I didn't specify the question good enough or if people are reading too quickly (not a jab) and not fully comprehending it. The game obviously is going to be both an RPG and sandbox, but if it was a slider, which point would they gravitate to more. That's eventually why I ended up with having only the two options. Having an "equal" option would basically be the same as "I don't care" in my mind.
I think I don't care would be a 4th option. Leaning toward either choice is a choice. Wanting there to be a mixture is a choice as well. Not caring would be a different choice entirely.
Someone who wants a mixture wants a mixture. If the table started tilting too much to one side where the other disappears then they would get upset because they care very much. As someone who picked the first choice I would have preferred a mix of both option because I would not want to see the sandbox genre removed from the game by any means.
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@Whisper Agreed, but as I said it WILL contain both elements of an RPG and sandbox - having the option of having both is just redundant. And having an "I don't care" option isn't a preference
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@Manaia said in What kind of game do you hope Fractured will be?:
@Tuoni I did think about having a third option for them being equal. I'm not sure if I didn't specify the question good enough or if people are reading too quickly (not a jab) and not fully comprehending it. The game obviously is going to be both an RPG and sandbox, but if it was a slider, which point would they gravitate to more. That's eventually why I ended up with having only the two options. Having an "equal" option would basically be the same as "I don't care" in my mind.
Now when I started to think this more closely it is actually hard to make just one choise between RPG or Sandbox. In MMORPGs the RPG part has always be important for me, not the actual roleplaying but the character progression which is one of the main things in MMORPGs anyway. In sandbox MMORPGs the RPG element appear in way how players have influence to the economics, local environment and other players lives in the game. These aspects lacks from themepark MMORPGs, which is why themeparks are typicaly the counterparty for sandboxes. So without the RPG aspect I would not play a game which would be titled only as a sandbox.
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@Tuoni Another thing about most sandbox games is they only allow you to have the single character. Fractured allows many alts to fill other niches in the game that makes rerolling attributes less required. This is how I'm thinking about it; if they limited you to one character only then I'd be all for being able to reroll attributes, though still at a cost.
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@Manaia said in What kind of game do you hope Fractured will be?:
@Tuoni Another thing about most sandbox games is they only allow you to have the single character. Fractured allows many alts to fill other niches in the game that makes rerolling attributes less required. This is how I'm thinking about it; if they limited you to one character only then I'd be all for being able to reroll attributes, though still at a cost.
All the Ultima-esque games (and sandboxy MMORPGs) I am aware of have multiple character slots. It's not about attributes, but mostly about traveling limitations, which will also be a thing in Fractured. If you're in a big guild with influence over a large area, having a zvz-ready alt is a very good idea. Having the gathering professions spread across multiple alts also makes sense because different node-types are found in different areas, so you waste less time traveling. Having some alts on a different account is better tho because you can scout, craft, or flip the market while playing on your main.
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@Manaia said in What kind of game do you hope Fractured will be?:
(...)they can make minor alterations to their vision(...)
I wouldn't exactly call the change a 'minor alternation', but that's subjective and personal preference. That said, yes, developers should and have to make minor adjustment every now and then for various different reason. They have to be careful about it though, people pledged for a specific reason. And if there's too many 'alternations', the people that originally funded your game likely are going to be unhappy because it is no longer what they wanted to fund and play.
Hence why, even if it goes against what I personally want in a game, I'd rather they stick to what they advertised the game to be.
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@Logain I'm not saying to do exactly what I'd prefer, I'm saying to make minor alterations to it. Minor.
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@Manaia said in What kind of game do you hope Fractured will be?:
@Tuoni Another thing about most sandbox games is they only allow you to have the single character. Fractured allows many alts to fill other niches in the game that makes rerolling attributes less required. This is how I'm thinking about it; if they limited you to one character only then I'd be all for being able to reroll attributes, though still at a cost.
I would not say most because it is kind of mix to have only a one character or several in sandbox MMOs. In Fractured e.g. there is three different planets with different rules and three different main races with several sub-race options, and that is why we have a few extra character options. And like @Razvan mentioned alts can be used for different tasks spreading those all over the world to avoid the constant traveling. In addition, because there is a criminal and alignment system that can also be a reason for create an alt. It is quite common procedure to have a criminal and lawful citizen character separated from each other. Furthermore, games can also use the alt system as a business model, like in Albion Online you benefit for having several characters or even accounts especially if you buy the premium package to them. So in some cases the alts are not there just because of players but also because developers make some profit with them.
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The Eve for fantasy MMOs
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@SatelliteMind89 said in What kind of game do you hope Fractured will be?:
The Eve for fantasy MMOs
I do not personally like "moon rocket" games but I would like to give a go for a fantasy themed sandbox MMORPG which is based on Eve's concept. However, I do not wish Fractured to be like that but as own separated product that game could be awesome if implemented well.
