Give us Attribute Resets please

[Gothix]

So no total resets. Only if devs decide, perhaps slow tweaking over time.

This doesnt let you create totally different char but it lets you tweak your current char a little bit, which can make sense.

[Jetah]

@Logain
and you can't change races. that point you're trying to make is pointless. i've said that already.

[Razvan]

Some people like to have a bunch of alts, others don't.
I think they could make seasons, which seems to be a popular tactic these days: before each season they should let us know of the upcoming major game changes (new mechanics and big balance changes) and grant us one respec. Another idea is to basically copy the respec system from Albion.

[Heartlock]

Not sure how I feel about most this stuff, I feel like as the game is more complete there will be tooltips to help give you a better decision/idea of what you're making going into the game. If this is the case, I actually don't see that much of a need to have resets.

[Ametrys]

Choices need to matter, but it's tough to feel locked in by the choices of your slightly younger, less knowledgeable self. I agree on making more of that knowledge available early and accessibly so that it feels less like a choice made out of ignorance and more a choice made out of preference.

[Logain]

@Jetah said in Give us Attribute Resets please:

(...)that point you're trying to make is pointless(...)

The point I was trying to make is that there's two possible routes suggested in the thread so far. One, completely free attribute resets, the other 'somewhat expansive attribte resets, possibly over time'. Both of these suggestions are a result of the desire to avoid having to create additional characters once the player chooses to try a different 'build'. However, with races and their impact, you would still have to create multiple characters if the race you choose doesn't suite your desired experience. Hence, the question, if the effect isn't as desired, why not leave the situation as is?

[Jetah]

@Logain
only the people who min-max will have different race alts. the majority of the players will stick with 1.

the start of a game, many people will not research the mechanics for hours before trying it out. thus they will mostly go in blind and will rely on the tooltips that popup on the screen at creation. many developers just give some basic information on that screen 'as to not overwhelm or confuse' the new player. having a player dictate stats at that point is pretty horrible. which is why a reset or a way to adjust them is needed.

during alpha (the test phase) there should be a way to change them every fight. we're here to find bugs as well as give feedback. having to create a new character for every point change is tedious for an alpha tester.

[Razvan]

@Ametrys The problem is that in similar games (example Albion), the gameplay changes dramatically over the years. Items that used to be meta in some scenarios are now useless and some that used to be weak got new amazing skills. My guess is that this will also happen in Fractured and it will really suck to have a character build around something that will become absolutely useless in two years.

[Jetah]

@Razvan said in Give us Attribute Resets please:

@Ametrys The problem is that in similar games (example Albion), the gameplay changes dramatically over the years. Items that used to be meta in some scenarios are now useless and some that used to be weak got new amazing skills. My guess is that this will also happen in Fractured and it will really suck to have a character build around something that will become absolutely useless in two years.

now add in the Knowledge system where it can take who knows how long to get back to where you were. If it were a where you could powerlevel your way through to max so you can start to gear, it'd be ok. but this is like Eve Online redoing all their existing skills so they do 10% of they currently do and adding skills that do 900%. (setting aside that you can buy skill points.)

[Logain]

@Jetah said in Give us Attribute Resets please:

(...)only the people who min-max will have different race alts. the majority of the players will stick with 1.

the start of a game, many people will not research the mechanics for hours before trying it out(...)

Could you elaborate on the difference between having Strength at 21 instead of 15 and having Strength at 18 instead of 12?

[Gothix]

Perhaps some "skeleton setups" canbe offered during attribute selection so that people that "go in blind" can start with some predefined attribite model "damage focused mage" or "general tank"or whatever, so they will at least have good core selected for what they want.

Afterwards if they want to tweak that a bit to "different type of mage", slow "attribute change over time" model will be sufficient.

[Shivashanti]

@Razvan in albion you were what you wear, here you will be what skills you choose, so it wouldn't be that bad if something changes over time

[Jetah]

@Logain said in Give us Attribute Resets please:

@Jetah said in Give us Attribute Resets please:

(...)only the people who min-max will have different race alts. the majority of the players will stick with 1.

the start of a game, many people will not research the mechanics for hours before trying it out(...)

Could you elaborate on the difference between having Strength at 21 instead of 15 and having Strength at 18 instead of 12?

yes. when you increase those numbers, currently, you cant change them.
I'd much prefer a method where stat points are given based on certain amount of knowledge increases. This would be similar to leveling up in traditional RPGs. This would allow the player time to adjust to the game, the mechanics, the play styles, etc, before committing to permanent stat changes.

[Shivashanti]

@Jetah stat points given based on the amount of knowledge wouldn't be on par with the horizontal progression they want to achive

[Jetah]

@Shivashanti said in Give us Attribute Resets please:

@Jetah stat points given based on the amount of knowledge wouldn't be on par with the horizontal progression they want to achieve

what's the difference between giving 10 points when you create a character vs 10 points over 100 points of knowledge learned?

[Razvan]

@Shivashanti Skills are affected by stats. If you minmax and one patch they decide to change the way one of your main skills scales with stats, you pretty much fucked up that character. Or if they neglect a class so much that they become absolutely useless (for example single target mdps - glaive from Albion) and you are playing that, you're fucked again. Not to mention that the meta keeps changing and you have to adapt to what other people are doing, so the optimal rdps build 6 months after launch will probably be very different than the optimal one 3 years after launch.
All in all, I think the whole stats system is a bad idea which only brings restrictions. In Albion if the healer left, one of the dps could trade the gear and they became the new healer.

[Logain]

@Jetah said in Give us Attribute Resets please:

(...)yes. when you increase those numbers, currently, you cant change them(...)

You avoided answering my question. You started a similarity, I asked for a difference.

[asspirin]

@Razvan said in Give us Attribute Resets please:

In Albion if the healer left, one of the dps could trade the gear and they became the new healer.

In fractured if there is any "mage" guy left, he can just rest by camp fire, pick "healing spells" and voila. He doesn´t even have to be mage, you can cast healing in heavy as well.

[Farlander]

Some of the games I have played, if they did a major revamp of how things worked, they gave a free reset to players to adjust to the new rules.

[Jetah]

@Logain

my first reply: here there isn't always a 'massive rework on skills', sometimes it's a balance in a sub 5% change. a number of those and the whole build is bad.
this comment also answers it

having static attribute points entered before playing the game is bad design. offering points as the character is developed is better. having points that are fluid and can change based on how you play the game is best. that's from a players perspective. from a developer perspective you want the players to constantly change their characters, deleting them or buying new slots, after a minor change happens to stats, skills, gear, etc. a developer wants to keep the player playing, having concurrent players, total monthly players is great for investors (as this game isn't pure sub based).