How big should guilds allowed to be?
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In the end, FF would feel much more immersive. Throwing a grenade in your own group fighting others should hurt them too right....... I always hated big zerg fights (and so does my rig), so if it would come to a vote I would go for FF ON.
Luckily it's up to the dev's to make a game to their idea's, otherwise, we would end up with games al being generic, as it would become as the majority would like it tot be
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@Razvan Then start your own guild
But **** happens and everyone must count with it in FF game (if Fractured will have it), one can just apologise after fight (as long such thing doesn´t happen again). Depends on maturity of guild members of course.
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FF on for everything is not compatible with an aoe heavy gameplay. Tanks have to get in melee range in order to CC the enemy. With full FF, the dps is going to kill their frontline as well on engagement. FF has to be off for guilds. It really doesn't make sense to be on for alliances either. We are in the same alliance and I see your group being chased by some guys. Naturally, my group would try to dismount and help yours, but with ff there's a big chance we'll all die. You have to weight all the possible situations that could be affected by a feature, not only big zergs. Imo, ff within allianced = what's the point of alliances even?
PS: I actually want a game which isn't aoe heavy and doesn't have burst healing, but it looks like these aren't popular nowadays anymore.
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I actually want a game which isn't aoe heavy and doesn't have burst healing
Agreed, getting stunned and instantly vaporized by 20 aoe nukes in zerg isn´t much fun.
So maybe only x% of dmg as FF ?
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Maybe some sort of compromise...
Turn on FF for everyone in certain zones or during events.
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@Gothix said in How big should guilds allowed to be?:
If there would be friendly fire it would have to be planet based, and not faction based.
If for example FF is turned on for evil faction, but disabled for good faction, then good faction can create zergs and be OP compared to evil faction.
So if there is FF, it could for example be by default OFF for everyone on Arboreus (so PvE players can play in peace there, not bothered they will hit anyone else). If evil players venture there, it would be off for them too (the little time they can stay there).
FF could be ON by default for everyone on Tartaros. So even if good players venture there, they should be careful and organized because they can hit each other (unless in same party).
Syndesia could have zone rules. Whichever guild rules the zone, they decide if FF is ON or OFF for everyone in their zone!
FF could then be ignored inside raid groups and parties (guildies not in parties can hit each other), but otherwise go according to planet / zone general rules. So for example, 2 guild mates on Tartaros, or in Syndesia zones where such rule is set by ruling guild, would hit each other even if they are in same guild, unless they join same party to be protected.
Guilds could then be limitless, and party / raid max size would determine how many people can travel around safe from each other. (Yes you should be careful when traveling in PUGs!! But having a need for care is good!)
And GvG for control of Syndesia would get a little more importance to it.
wouldn't it be easier for Tartaros to create 1 guild for invasions so they dont FF everyone!?
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If you think demon guilds (where all the hardcore pvp people will be in) will ever create an alliance, let alone a big guild, to incorporate all the demons, you heavily overestimate the human nature. There will be mega demon alliances if the game allows them, but always at least 2.
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@Razvan said in How big should guilds allowed to be?:
to incorporate all the demons, you heavily overestimate the human nature.
Humans, playing humans. Picture the situation there.........
Luckily being on Arboreus, we all sit by the campfire, singing kumbaya and let you lot kill each other
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@Yitra said in How big should guilds allowed to be?:
Luckily being on Arboreus, we all sit by the campfire, singing kumbaya and let you lot kill each other
At least until you want to farm and get trolled by a bored 14 years old with glass cannon build who hits the same mobs as you do.
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@Yitra said in How big should guilds allowed to be?:
@Razvan said in How big should guilds allowed to be?:
to incorporate all the demons, you heavily overestimate the human nature.
Humans, playing humans. Picture the situation there.........
Luckily being on Arboreus, we all sit by the campfire, singing kumbaya and let you lot kill each other
until the fire nation att.. oh wait. until the demon planet attacks!
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@Jetah said in How big should guilds allowed to be?:
wouldn't it be easier for Tartaros to create 1 guild for invasions so they dont FF everyone!?
Well if it was designed that guildies can hit each other (FF on inside guild), but only off inside parties, than it wouldnt matterhow large the guild is.
Raid size CAP would limit the zergs.
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If guildies could kill each other then there would be alot of infighting within guilds. I'd hate to have to be the guildmaster for such a situation.
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@Farlander said in How big should guilds allowed to be?:
If guildies could kill each other then there would be alot of infighting within guilds. I'd hate to have to be the guildmaster for such a situation.
No FF also causes lots of drama. Most common scenario is when a healer from your guild is playing with his buddies from another guild and your group ends up fighting their. They basically have free heals (your party cannot cc/attack their healer since he is from your guild). This kind of bullshit happens way too often.
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@Yitra You can have large guilds without zerg fest if they ever happen to decide on a option for more specific guild vs guild. Although I kinda want to see giant zerg stuff.
Realistically one solution to giant zerg's with a no limit on guild could be as follows.
- Instanced maps and each guild has a cap on how many guild members can be active on a particular instance. This helps diversify each instance and keep it from becoming too overwhelming from any type of zerg nonsense.
-Somehow have guild master the access to control what guild members can be in their own instance.
This, in my head, sounds like one of the better options in a world with no FF. And would be really fun way to do Party based PVP.
Gonna keep editing this post as I flesh this out some more.
- Instanced maps and each guild has a cap on how many guild members can be active on a particular instance. This helps diversify each instance and keep it from becoming too overwhelming from any type of zerg nonsense.
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@Heartlock instanced maps/clusters are not an option in a open world game imo. And how do you avoid zergs when the guildleaders decide who can go in a zone? Can you elaborate this? Do you think of a zone like an arena/battleground? I don't see that working on such big maps with phasing/zoning tbh
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@Razvan Heals are supposed to be aimed too, righ? Depends if it will be "missile", ground targeted skill, aoe or some kind of "well from Guild Wars 2" ... healing totem would be nice however.
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@asspirin I remember seeing a healing spell in the last test, but if I'm not mistaken it was a point and click. If burst healing will be a thing, I don't see why we wouldn't have all the healing mechanics mentioned by you. Of course, a skillshot should heal more (or give extra effects) compared to a point and click skill.
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Point an click might get difficult, if you had to fight in big numbers (zerg vs zerg / guilds vs guilds - depends on friendly fire). Im not sure whether it was already decided and I don´t want to misinform anyone, but somewhere on forums I read they´re planning that you can accidentally heal your enemy if your healing spell hits them. If so, aimed heals are uselsss (unless they can pierce) and aoe heals are also useless.
Luckily so far it seems Fractured has way more self heals than AO, so the role of "healer" might not be as important.
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@asspirin said in How big should guilds allowed to be?:
@Razvan
Point an click might get difficult, if you had to fight in big numbersThat's why I said we should have all the mentioned healing mechanics (scaled differently, based on the difficulty of landing the skill). This would cover different play styles and different situations.
PS: Since you linked Albion, on the left side you have the party bar. You can use that if you want to heal someone with a point and click spell.
PPS: Lmao at that zvz build (with t3 horses and low tier food/hpp).Im not sure whether it was already decided and I don´t want to misinform anyone, but somewhere on forums I read they´re planning that you can accidentally heal your enemy if your healing spell hits them. If so, aimed heals are uselsss (unless they can pierce) and aoe heals are also useless.
That seems like a very bad idea to me too. If you remembered this correctly, then I hope devs will change their minds on it.
Luckily so far it seems Fractured has way more self heals than AO, so the role of "healer" might not be as important.
I disagree with this. Dedicated healers are always a good thing: they stay in the backline, away from CC and damage; they have optimised stats and builds for healing, so they are by far more efficient than the low int archers; tanks/dps don't have to fill their skillbars with practically useless stuff for their role.
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I prefer options.
Id love to have as many different spell variants as possible, including different heal types, then player can decide what kind of healer he wants to be for various scenarios.
