Real Crafting
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As long as geography affects crafting, so not everyone everywhere produces the same thing (even if they have access to same materials).
I'd love end results of crafting be affected by:
- specific combination of materials (experimentation)
- tools used (quality of crafting tools)
- geographical location where item is being crafted
- time of day
- time of year
- possibly some other factors as well
The main purpose of all this being that crafting becomes something fun, that it depends on players (real persons) knowledge, and that different crafters will produce items of different properties, so we do not have a market saturated with 1 million copies of exactly the same item X.
And of course since Fractured features horizontal progression, those end results don't have to feature large difference in raw power... perhaps they can add different flavors and situational bonuses to specific items, and raw power can only fluctuate in bracket of maybe 10% depending on potency, in addition to situational bonuses.
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I like the idea of different areas having access to different resources, thus resulting in different crafting outcomes.
The idea of the same resources making something different in each location, though, sounds odd.
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@Gothix said in Real Crafting:
Problem with fixed blueprints is that eventually everyone would end up with "the best ones" and in the end, everyone would again be crafting exactly the same thing.
Crafting should have many factors, that are determined on the fly so you can't just study up everything and after a while start producing the best stuff without an effort.
Crafting needs to be an effort every single time, your first time, and your 1000th time, or else, eventually all products end up the same.
Good idea would be to require (as one of the factors) that dangerous zone is needed to give bonus to crafting results... so if you craft in safe city, your pots are weaker, but if you craft in middle of danger zone, they are more potent.
Risk vs. reward. And then you can be sure not everyone will end up with same results, but only those that take some risks will.
And of course, there can be plenty more factors involved besides that.
do you know how easy it is for a 5 star chef to make scrambled eggs? you're saying that 5 star chef should have just as difficult time as the noob 7 year old just learning to crack an egg.
vehicle mechanics are nearly the same. I can't pull an engine then rebuild it but a 30 year mechanic can easily. But you want them to be the same difficulty.
The blueprints I mentioned could have plenty of random factors including a range for every attribute. that weapon might not always be 10-20 it could be 8-17 or 5-30. Diablo 3 has a range for the low damage and high damage for a good random range. IE [500-700 ] - [900-1100] so the damage could be anywhere between 500 to 1100 from minimum to maximum damage.
I dont see fractured crafting being tedious for each craft because we're supposedly have easily replaceable gear. If the crafter spends 15 minutes crafting a weapon then there's no way that weapon group will be easily replaceable. Let the crafter spend the time creating a blueprint then let the blueprint craft a certain amount of items then it's destroyed. Templates at my work dont last forever either.
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SWG had special blueprints that dropped as loot. UO also had the BOD system that dropped different items from doing those. SWG had one of the best crafting systems I've played in a MMO. Having resources spawn with different stats made crafting very unique. It just made it hard to break into crafting if someone was sitting on a huge pile of the best resource that ever spawned.
I don't mind quality of tools being tied to the crafted item as long as there isn't a durability factor that causes you to have to replace your tool ever few hits. I liked SWG having factories where you could load it up with a schematic and it pumped out items while you were sleeping lol.
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There could be a chance to research a blueprint (or fragments) from final items. The item would be destroyed in this process and the player gets a blueprint or update for already known blueprint or a blueprint fragment (e.g. 1/5) in excange. That way a crafter would need to see at least effort to wide his/her blueprint/recipe collection to craft something special when compared for common people. This system would also work as a great item sink feature.
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@Gothix said in Real Crafting:
Could we get crafting be a skill based process instead of having dry, old crafting style where you combine mats X and Y, and create product Z, and everyone who does this process creates exactly the same Z?
There will be a standard crafting system, we aim to allow players to recover/create in an "easy" way their equips, trying to remove grinding and random outcomes, so when you craft something, it will have predetermined characteristics.
The interesting part is that there will be more recipes for the same item. For example, if you use one material rather than another, you could create an armor with more slots for enchantments or with different statistics. During Alpha 2 you will be able to taste this with Alchemy and Enchanting.
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@Znirf said in Real Crafting:
The interesting part is that there will be more recipes for the same item. For example, if you use one material rather than another, you could create an armor with more slots for enchantments or with different statistics.
This sounds interesting.. How you get recipes in Fractured? Rare drops from specific mobs, rare world drops, researcing from finished items, player created recipes or something else?
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@Tuoni There will be a UI system that will guide you in the crafting
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It's indeed nice the idea that crafting in some peculiar (and dangerous) places should at last give some extra properties to the items: creating a sword in a forge powered by the lava core of a volcano in a smoldering zone filled with fire elementals, instead that at the safe forge of a city, should at last craft a blazing flame sword with some extra fire damage attached to it!
Maybe also adding exotic materials during the crafting process could give some additional properties and so on.I would for sure prefer such things than an extra minigame that after the 10th time would be boring and repetitive, considering that crafting will be (probably) a massive time consuming occupation since the entire economy is driven by players themselves and everything must be produced.
Also a skilled crafter should get additional bonus (less materials consumed or less time or something like that) when crafting low/mid tier items: if he's a master he won't find any difficulties in creating such things.
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Ooh, seeing multiple recipes for same item in A1-T3 would be awesome!
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@Znirf said in Real Crafting:
@Tuoni There will be a UI system that will guide you in the crafting
Hmmm... I am not sure how this answers my question how players can actually get those recipes..
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@Jetah said in Real Crafting:
do you know how easy it is for a 5 star chef to make scrambled eggs? you're saying that 5 star chef should have just as difficult time as the noob 7 year old just learning to crack an egg.
That chef might have a very bad day, be tired as hell without 3 days of sleep, or have his arms broken, or a bad flue and headache.
That 7 year old kid might be a genoius, and his parents might have tought him how to make eggs every day since the age of 3.
There are always so many factors involved, so yeah, this is why I would prefer skill based crafting, where when you are having a bad day in RL and are not focused, your crafting in game might be affected. So playing effort and focus would always be rewarded.
Also since this is horizontal progression game, this makes an additional sense, since crafters shouldnt progress vertically, but horizontally as well, so skill based crafting also makes sense to add a variety to products, rather than looking at simply "which player has bigger cooking number in his cooking book"... playing like that everyone will eventually end up with max number, so whats the point.
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@Roccandil said in Real Crafting:
The idea of the same resources making something different in each location, though, sounds odd.
not a completely different item, just a bit different stats or effect. So healing potion would always be a healing potion, but one created in different place (or with different other factors) could add a poison removing effect, while other one might add an additional small healing over time effect.
Just a crude example.
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@Znirf said in Real Crafting:
For example, if you use one material rather than another, you could create an armor with more slots for enchantments or with different statistics.
That sounds good.
I hope this knowledge will be hidden on start so players will have to invest a decent time exploring, experimenting and finding out stuff.
I know eventually web will be full of info, but at least starting period would be extra interesting, and perhaps expansions could shift some stuff around so players have to explore again.
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@Farlander said in Real Crafting:
SWG had special blueprints that dropped as loot. UO also had the BOD system that dropped different items from doing those. SWG had one of the best crafting systems I've played in a MMO. Having resources spawn with different stats made crafting very unique. It just made it hard to break into crafting if someone was sitting on a huge pile of the best resource that ever spawned.
I don't mind quality of tools being tied to the crafted item as long as there isn't a durability factor that causes you to have to replace your tool ever few hits. I liked SWG having factories where you could load it up with a schematic and it pumped out items while you were sleeping lol.
having item and cosmetic blueprint drops would be neat to have!
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If Crafting had a infinite skill level and could just keep going up and up, the truly dedicated crafters on one item could find them selves making a profit, for example , you could only make shoes
everyone would know the shoes "cobbler joe" makes are the best shoes with the best stats and so can charge the most money, yeah cobbler tilly can make level 1000 boots with great stats but cobbler joes boots are 3000 and cost 15x more with just enough increase in stats to make it worth while
(obviously these items would need balancing)- if it cant easily be balanced with number changes, skill choices or glows/cosmetic changes could possibly make items as valuable
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That sounds unbalancable on the surface, but I do remember that Masters of Orion II had a cool "refinement" system, in which researching past maximum didn't make modules more powerful, it simply made them smaller, so you could fit more weapons/defenses on a single starship.
I'd like to see a crafting system that included breakthroughs versus refinements, although I don't know what refinements would look like in a game like Fractured: maybe lighter, more durable gear, with otherwise the same stats?
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@Tuoni said in Real Crafting:
@Znirf said in Real Crafting:
@Tuoni There will be a UI system that will guide you in the crafting
Hmmm... I am not sure how this answers my question how players can actually get those recipes..
You're right, sorry!
We still don't know; it is something that we will decide in the future.
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Will we be able to have all the recipes or will we have to pick and choose which ones we keep?
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@Farlander said in Real Crafting:
Will we be able to have all the recipes or will we have to pick and choose which ones we keep?
This topic is a little bit in advance
Sorry if sometimes I'm not so clear, but these things are often just ideas or work in progress stuff. Anyway, you will be able to keep all the recipes you want. Our concept is: you will have a unique recipe for an item, is the formula that changes, you will be able to combine available materials (different kinds of leathers, stones, steels) as you want to create something unique according to your needs.
