Mentor system
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Would be cool to have a mentor system where you could teach people who group often with you some of the skills you have acquired. What do you guys think?
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Although I would welcome some form of mentoring system, I would like it to extend beyond the basics of game play into wider dynamics of group/faction operation: including how to effectively use supporting mechanisms as discord: a platform I have only recently joined on finding fractured, but have yet to master. (Although I have played mmo's for a couple of years, for the most part it has only been as a solo player, or member of a pug.)
I find the best way I learn is through visual media: so perhaps as the game develops there could be a library heading, with video tutorials explaining such processes and would definitely appreciate an idiots guide about actually running a guild in earnest.
I will try doing a search through the previous posts to see if there is any mention of setting up a tutorial test area as part of future development, I.e. an area where newbies can try out and learn the basics of game play at there own pace without consequences in the real game.
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@thwunk said in Mentor system:
Although I would welcome some form of mentoring system, I would like it to extend beyond the basics of game play into wider dynamics of group/faction operation: including how to effectively use supporting mechanisms as discord: a platform I have only recently joined on finding fractured, but have yet to master. (Although I have played mmo's for a couple of years, for the most part it has only been as a solo player, or member of a pug.)
I find the best way I learn is through visual media: so perhaps as the game develops there could be a library heading, with video tutorials explaining such processes and would definitely appreciate an idiots guide about actually running a guild in earnest.
I will try doing a search through the previous posts to see if there is any mention of setting up a tutorial test area as part of future development, I.e. an area where newbies can try out and learn the basics of game play at there own pace without consequences in the real game.
Oddly that is why I do the Archeage 101 video series. I'll be doing the same for Fractured when I start.
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@jahlon that is awesome news
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Every game in which I tried mentor system it was basically an annoyance, a chore. Something repeatable and boring.
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Since you do not acquire skills through usage, but through the knowledge system, which bases on 'accomplishments', having a mentor teaching that would kind of negate the need to accomplish different tasks and bypass the very core of the system, wouldn't it?
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@logain Not really. Someone still has to do the tasks to learn whatever skill it is. If you are constantly around someone doing something you naturally pick up stuff. So yeah it would be easier to go out and to the tasks to learn the skill but over time I think skills that are used around you constantly should have a chance to be learned.
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Hmm. Could make sense to a point, but knowledge and experience are very different.
If you need to walk across fiery ground and survive to get a knowledge point (for instance), I'm not sure just telling someone about it really prepares them for doing it.
Maybe if each skill had a possible free "mentor" point that you could use to substitute for only one of the experiential knowledge requirements to advance a skill, that -might- work.
Honestly, though, I could see that being used by players to increase the skills of their own pool of toons (get X skill on one, Y skill on another, and then boost each other).
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@dagimir said in Mentor system:
@logain Not really. Someone still has to do the tasks to learn whatever skill it is. If you are constantly around someone doing something you naturally pick up stuff. So yeah it would be easier to go out and to the tasks to learn the skill but over time I think skills that are used around you constantly should have a chance to be learned.
I disagree.
I prefer people having to preform an actual accomplishment to gain skills, and not only by following someone around.
Even only asking for what you are asking would empower players that want to avoid an actual travelling to risky places (PvP zones) and want to stay in safe area and just learn all skills from friends that traveled around, without actually traveling themselves, and pulling off the challenging tasks needed to be done.
Yeah, how about no.
I want Fractured to be a skill requiring game and not just a time consume game, ty.
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I agree with the sentiment that a mentor system that bypasses task requirements goes against the spirit of the game. It might be fitting if it just applied to the discovery of the skill (so you'd still have to do tasks and study to even use it), but that seems like it would hurt the exploration aspect of skill learning (though I guess a wiki would already do that).
A sort of mentor system I'd be okay with is one that shortens the study time for skills. For example, if you see someone cast a skill you're studying, it shortens the timer. To make it less gamey (like having someone basically afking while hitting the skill button over and over so the person studying can learn faster), it can be made so each person seen using the skill only counts once, so the student has to go out and find new people to keep decreasing the study time. This would still fit the exploration and discovery principles of Fractured while potentially increasing social interaction and economic opportunities (charging someone to show them a skill).
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@logain indeed, that is why I would like to see any mentor system cover the supporting mechanisms: like how to run a successful guild or use external platforms like discord for instance, rather than game play itself. These do not undermine the concept of knowledge, but could potentially enrich the game experience as a whole.
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@target Of all the replies I like yours best. You gave your opinion while stating ways to make it work instead of just saying no its a bad idea because of X. Constructive criticism is the way things get improved.
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your for instance doesn't make any sense. A better example would be:I see someone doing something so it gives me insight on how to do it myself. This is literally how life works. I see someone flip a switch and a light comes on. From seeing this I can surmise that if I were also to flip that same switch the light would come on.
Also I like that at first you have an idea that might work but you don't run with it but instead focus on how it could be abused. None of us want a system that can be abused as it would defeat the purpose of this type of game.
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@gothix What exactly do you disagree with?
Just a few points id like to make about a mentor system where you "follow" someone around. Which literally means you are wasting your time following instead of playing.
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Mechanics that promote grouping in an MMO are almost always positive and healthy mechanics. It's the reason we play mmos is to interact with other people. If you wanted a single player experience there are better games geared for the solo player.
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Empowering players and giving them the option to learn things at a much slower or costlier rate than actually going and doing something they may dislike (like PVP) is healthy for the community at large. Not everyone wants to pvp or pve. Being able to bypass something that is not fun for you should be promoted as long as the cost of gaining said skill is balanced against the people who actually quest.
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@dagimir said in Mentor system:
@gothix What exactly do you disagree with?
Just a few points id like to make about a mentor system where you "follow" someone around. Which literally means you are wasting your time following instead of playing.
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Mechanics that promote grouping in an MMO are almost always positive and healthy mechanics. It's the reason we play mmos is to interact with other people. If you wanted a single player experience there are better games geared for the solo player.
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Empowering players and giving them the option to learn things at a much slower or costlier rate than actually going and doing something they may dislike (like PVP) is healthy for the community at large. Not everyone wants to pvp or pve. Being able to bypass something that is not fun for you should be promoted as long as the cost of gaining said skill is balanced against the people who actually quest.
- i hate those mechanics! the mobs should scale so that solo and group players have equal time killing a mob.
- i don't like the idea of getting [pvp] skills without actually doing [pvp] it. if the system had a 'xp' style system where you needed 100 xp (made up amount and hidden) to unlock a skill the mentor system only helped 50 of that then i'm OK.
problem we have is when the mentor system is so much better that it becomes a mandatory thing.
In 3-15 years I can see this system setup so that new players can have a quicker way to access skills but it should only help guide a player to unlocking skills and not directly unlocking them.
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@dagimir said in Mentor system:
your for instance doesn't make any sense. A better example would be:I see someone doing something so it gives me insight on how to do it myself. This is literally how life works. I see someone flip a switch and a light comes on. From seeing this I can surmise that if I were also to flip that same switch the light would come on.
Hmm. If I watch someone run across lava (or whatever that goal is), then yes, I'd know it was possible, and have a much better idea of how to do it.
So, that means the following:
- The student is there to watch;
- The mentor is there to demonstrate;
- The student toon derives a benefit of some kind, presumably to doing the thing.
I don't know enough about game mechanics to suggest what that would be, although that scenario seems inherently harder to abuse (two toons out in the world exploring/doing, not just sitting at home talking).
As an alternative, I wonder about knowledge proliferation. That is, the more the same knowledge is known by many players, the more likely it would be that that knowledge would be known (or much easier to learn) by new toons.
On the other hand, this seems to be about helping new toons catch up with veterans, but isn't horizontal progression already designed to take care of that?
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@roccandil said in Mentor system:
@dagimir said in Mentor system:
your for instance doesn't make any sense. A better example would be:I see someone doing something so it gives me insight on how to do it myself. This is literally how life works. I see someone flip a switch and a light comes on. From seeing this I can surmise that if I were also to flip that same switch the light would come on.
Hmm. If I watch someone run across lava (or whatever that goal is), then yes, I'd know it was possible, and have a much better idea of how to do it.
So, that means the following:
- The student is there to watch;
- The mentor is there to demonstrate;
- The student toon derives a benefit of some kind, presumably to doing the thing.
I don't know enough about game mechanics to suggest what that would be, although that scenario seems inherently harder to abuse (two toons out in the world exploring/doing, not just sitting at home talking).
As an alternative, I wonder about knowledge proliferation. That is, the more the same knowledge is known by many players, the more likely it would be that that knowledge would be known (or much easier to learn) by new toons.
On the other hand, this seems to be about helping new toons catch up with veterans, but isn't horizontal progression already designed to take care of that?
this makes bots and gold farm industries easier to sell accounts. we'd see a skilled character running other accounts to get them KP (knowledge points) faster.
mentoring also means the student did something and the mentor explains how they did it differently but the consequence of the student already happened.
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Mentor systems don't work very well in English-language MMOs, where players tend to be more competitive than cooperative as compared to Asian player bases. They're especially ill-suited to a game that's trying as hard as it can not to favor group activity over solo activity.
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Too many replies to this thread are so very short sighted. I explained that you could build it to prevent abuse and then the focus just goes back to how it can be abused. I also see the opinion that mobs should scale to player level which is a horrible idea in my own opinion. Oh hey that level 1 rat you fought back then is now a level 100 rat since you spent all the time adventuring and such.
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@dagimir said in Mentor system:
Too many replies to this thread are so very short sighted. I explained that you could build it to prevent abuse and then the focus just goes back to how it can be abused. I also see the opinion that mobs should scale to player level which is a horrible idea in my own opinion. Oh hey that level 1 rat you fought back then is now a level 100 rat since you spent all the time adventuring and such.
We don’t have levels. But a veteran with good gear shouldn’t be able to clear maps while the mentored person just collects loot. That isn’t always fun for the mentored.
Personally I’ve never enjoyed the type of mechanic and because they felt forced. If there are rewards then it becomes a mandatory mechanic.
We have access to so many resources that the system isn’t needed.
