Instanced Dungeons/Raids
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@Frost well it's kinda what I was trying to say. I prefer corss regions with my party to get in to the dungeon instead stay sit in any city and click a button to get inside a dung. about the option to make it open or instanced it's a good way to avoid the problem of making too many dungeons.
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@finland @Frost I didnt mean to use it and get teleported straight away
I kinda of like the idea of going to a certain location and then using the scroll to open up a portal tbh, sounds more adventurous!I think both types have their pro's and con's too. As previously pointed out the open world ones have problems in regards to people spamming bosses and can be a gankfest. Instanced can also just be spammable too, which is why I think a scroll that must be collected somehow kind of alleviates the spamming of it. It forces people to go out into the world and aim for a scroll to THEN go to a dungeon (instanced). personally dungeons should be a little more rare than they usually are ^^
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@Miffi Consider that you have to travel to the dungeon spot (this will take time) also for the instanced one. They could add something like a timer where you can't do the same dungeon for 1h-2h-10h once you kill the last boss. (like a rule set). This way forcing ppl to travel to another dungeon and so on
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@finland But forced traveling isnt much better than spam dungeoning. I'm thinking more forcing people to explore and farm different areas for dungeon scrolls, or even just fragments of them. Just having people take10 minutes to move to the next location just to do another instanced dungeon isnt very creative.
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This is sort of a classic case of being uncertain on what's the target audience is supposed to be for the game and I hope that we're going to receive more information to have a better idea before the Kickstarter.
Personally, I prefer player interaction, which means I'd hate to see instanced dungeons. I want to be in a real multiplayer environment and under a certain 'force' to interact with other people, both in positive and negative ways, else I'd play a 4 people coop game. I disagree that instanced dungeons require more skill as well, especially since we know that 'level's won't be what drives the game in Fractured' (you can't have one ultra high level clear the way, since that ultra high level is only marginally stronger than you ^^), but you always have to be on your guard and can't 'min max' for PvE, instead you have to make sure you're on your guard and geared for PvP as well (or live with the consequences in an open world dungeon).
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Well I have a different point of view, have you tried AO? Trust me that met 900 ppl inside the same dung is not funny, nothing to kill, big chance to get no loot and high chance to be ganked. PvE environment should stay away from pvp, but hey it's my opinion. They are for sure in time to make both options. If you are a PvPer and you are scared to meet none inside open dungeon it's just your problem. Anyway we are complaning things that we have not seen. Prolly it's better to wait and see something before argue hehehe
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I think there's room for both open world dungeons and instanced ones. For example, the instanced ones could be challenges issued by gods to see whether their followers are worthy to champion in Their name. This way, only the party that was called forth to the challenge can enter the portal leading to a special area where the god has prepared his trials. The rewards could be some interesting thematic buffs to your party for like a week or something.
For the open world dungeons we could have in game mechanics that limit the number of players who can reach the dungeon like having to cross a river but the raft that takes you there only goes once every half an hour and can only take a certain number of players. Or if there will be player collision, have very powerful telegraphed aoe attacks from monsters that would limit the number of players who can fit into the safe zones. There may also be other traps and puzzles that force players to approach the end boss in small groups only and and also to leave the area quickly once the boss dies, like toxic gasses, perhaps a powerful explosion or a swarm of monsters that players simply cannot fight off for too long.
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Well I have a different point of view, have you tried AO?
No, but I've tried/come from different (old school) non instanced, open world MMORPGs. Having a different point of view is great, but that is exactly the problem. Whom of us is the target audience they are heading for? That's why I hope they make that clear before launching their Kickstarter.
@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Trust me that met 900 ppl inside the same dung is not funny, nothing to kill, big chance to get no loot and high chance to be ganked.
That is a design issue Fractured seems to be addressing though. Fractured tries to avoid 'grind', you don't go and kill X over and over and over again, there is no benefit to that! But yes, player versus player conflict is kind of the core content concept for the Demon race (as far as what we've been told so far).
@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
If you are a PvPer and you are scared to meet none inside open dungeon it's just your problem.
Amusingly enough, I'm not a what you call a 'PvPer', but as far as I've seen from the game's design, PvP is one of the core pillars of content to the Demon race. That makes it not 'my problem', but a design problem and a main divider for the game's target audience.
That said, I enjoy having options and my actions having consequences.
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@Logain I don't know if you tryed out Albion Online that's really similar. That game was 99% pvp and promoting ganking/pkers. The funny things was that after the release we had like 180k + players, after 5 month when I left the game we had like 1-2k of active players. moslty where inside the top hard core guilds. That game is dying and ppl are leaving cause there are not so much ppl around to kill. The map is really enourmus now and empty. What keeps some players there is the war between guilds/alliances. So think about this.
I think that Demon can do their job by killing beastmen and humans on Tartaros ;). Or we could get something like Demons can kill Demons
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
I think that Demon can do their job by killing beastmen and humans on Tartaros ;). Or we could get something like Demons can kill Demons
Demons can kill demons, but that requires... player interaction. You can not interact with somebody who's safely hiding in their own instance.
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@logain said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Demons can kill demons, but that requires... player interaction. You can not interact with somebody who's safely hiding in their own instance.
I think that wil be more equal/fair for everyone to have a choice. If someone does not want to pvp can hide in an instanced dungeon/raid. You can kill those that have your play style. If there will be not enough players it's a problem of playstyle. If you exclude instanced or safe spots does not bring more people to kill but will influence the overall player base (that will be low anyway). Those who enjoy to play safely will not play the game if you don't give hem things. So I think it's better to make everyone happy.
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Maybe have different type dungeons or raid bosses in the different worlds. Instant on one world, open dungeon on another and maybe open world bosses on the human world.
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Considering the knowledge system we might have some dungeons without bosses
Places with hard to kill mobs where you go with friends just to explore it.Edit: such dungeons would obviously make more sense as open ones - not instanced.
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and here I am not wanting anything instanced.
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I think a fair compromise would be have both in a lore friendly way, like a portal that closes once the group has gone through so that its not really 'instanced' but means others cant go. Then you have open dungeons where everyone can. The way you make those more enticing is maybe the drops are better quality and higher quantity? So risk/reward is greater for those who brave the potential pvp.
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@miffi said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
I think a fair compromise would be have both in a lore friendly way, like a portal that closes once the group has gone through so that its not really 'instanced' but means others cant go. Then you have open dungeons where everyone can. The way you make those more enticing is maybe the drops are better quality and higher quantity? So risk/reward is greater for those who brave the potential pvp.
or not have the instanced versions so you don't have to deal with dual drop tables. personally i'd prefer to see materials drop than gear. keep the crafters happy. if people want to feel semi-safe they can hire bodyguards for the entrances.
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Instanced dungeons isn't needed other than preventing to get attacked by PvP-ers who see distracted players as an easy target.
Just take a look at world bosses/meta events from Guild Wars 2. For the bigger bosses you need several groups working together or it will completely fail. Bosses also scale hitpoints to how many people there are nearby. And you only have to damage the boss once to be eligible for the loot.
And also the bosses/meta events have timers and always spawn/start on a certain time. So you always know when, where and what boss spawns, so you can get there in time.
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@evolgrinz a real pver don't want a pvp dungeon
secondary an instanced dungeon gives you the chance to kill something and not walking around looking for mobs due the numbers of players.
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Nothing ruins a game faster than going through a long quest where you investigate a secret necromancer cult and find their hidden base that allegedly nobody but you knows about, then entering and having to compete with fifteen other characters named stuff like Swings-His-Schlong and XxXNaruto420XxX for the quest objectives and boss.
(Elder Scrolls Online has few to no instanced dungeons and it completely ruins the game.)
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@fibs said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Nothing ruins a game faster than going through a long quest where you investigate a secret necromancer cult and find their hidden base that allegedly nobody but you knows about, then entering and having to compete with fifteen other characters named stuff like Swings-His-Schlong and XxXNaruto420XxX for the quest objectives and boss.
(Elder Scrolls Online has few to no instanced dungeons and it completely ruins the game.)
dang it why didn't I name my toon Swings-His-Schlong? Can I get a name change here?
