Instanced Dungeons/Raids
-
Oh man, the idea that non-instanced dungeons "help players be more social" has me dying. How can anyone know so little about what they're talking about?
First off, if you want to handle dungeons "socially", you queue party / raid for them.
Secondly:
[Instance] BROverlord69: @(!@%ING KILLSTEAL HACKR. crawl back up ur moms peehole
[Instance] AZNLover4: wow ?? i know u hate urself and every1 else ?? but u dont have 2 take ur mommy problems out on me ??
[Instance] BROverlord69: i been camp weeks for a boss
[Instance] BROverlord69: #(@$ u
[Instance] AZNLover4: get better at the game ?? lol nub
[Instance] BROverlord69: fking &#@*$
[Instance] ejjffgf: @@@@@@@@@@@@@ FRACTUREDMUNMUN . COM 1 MILLION MUNMUN FOR $5 FAST DELIVERY GUARANTEED @@@@@@@@@@@@@
[Instance] BROverlord69: omfg shut up botThat's the kind of "socializing" you'll get from forgetting to instance your content, causing the game to devolve into a mess of killstealing and ganking and wonderful ad spots for gold bots.
Someone pointed out that people can still camp at entrances or exits to instance dungeons in order to gank players. This can be solved by semi-instancing open fields too. Just randomly divide wandering players into one of several channels / instances of the same field - repeatedly zoning will swap the player to a randomly chosen new instance, thus reducing the effectiveness of camping because what are the odds of every single channel having campers on the same dungeon at the same exact minute.
The number of instances per field would depend on how PVP-orientated the field was (more PVP = less instances) and how many players were on the field at the time (more players = more instances). As an exception, most Arboreus or Syndesia towns would have very few channels or even just one channel to facilitate "socializing" (spam, arguments, scrub brawling, and racial slurs).
-
@fibs said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Someone pointed out that people can still camp at entrances or exits to instance dungeons in order to gank players. This can be solved by semi-instancing open fields too. Just randomly divide wandering players into one of several channels / instances
I pointed it out and from my understanding Fractured is 1 server 1 channel / instance. And that's one of the few unique features about it so I don't think they'll change it.
-
@fibs said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Oh man, the idea that non-instanced dungeons "help players be more social" has me dying.(...)
Nobody said it would help players be more social. What people said is that it would increase the amount of player interaction. That interaction doesn't have to be social, or in the form of an enjoyable conversation, just like interaction in our world comes at largely varying levels.
The alternative is a 'X player coop game' where you simply go looking for a group to raid the dungeon a hundred more times though, not exactly a massively multiplayer game.@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
(...)Second thing CCU is fake tho(...)
At that point a discussion is mute. If you flat out call statistics provided by developers fake and claim to know better, despite not having access to server logs, there's not much ground for a reasonable exchange.
@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
(...)but how many in the whole day?(...)
That does not influence a heat map in the slightest bit. Are you even aware of what a heat map is in the context of player conglomeration around specific hot spots?
People keep forgetting that Fractured is intended not to provide vertical, but horizontal progression, which means, you can not compare the map design with other game that design around level/power progression.
You won't start in a 'beginner area', where you get your first few levels, your tier 1-A gear, then head onward to mid level areas, where you grind your next few levels and your tier B-C gear, then finally get to the high end areas where you keep grinding your top gear equipment through rinse and repeat dungeon raiding of a boss after you reached maximum level/skills.
In a game without power progression, the creature you encounter in the beginning is equally strong as the creature you fight later down the road, which means, there's no division in areas, so everything you design is 'end game content' and hence there's less of a hot spot in the end.
-
@jetah do you have open PvP in open dungeons / world bosses in WoW? If not then you cannot compare it at all to what we'll have here
-
@tulukaruk in WoW it's ruled by the server (pvp/pve/rp/rppvp). WoW has only rare spowns open world. Not dungeons or raids. If you are in a pve/rp server you can flag yourself to enter pvp. Onece flagged you can kill flagged players but being attacked by everyone. Everyone that attack a flagged player became flagged for 5 mins. WoW has instanced dungeon, raids, battlegrounds.
-
@jetah dude you are talking abou rare spowns that could drop a mount. Second thing there were no pvp in pve/rp server (I played 11 years in a rp server). For sure I lack abit of experience about the last 2 expansions but for me Vanilla was structured way better.
-
@fibs It honestly depends on how big the worlds are. If each planet is the max size of 41 square miles (just over 100 square kilometers) then it's possible that there are enough dungeons that instances aren't needed. The mobs inside could setup as personal loot so anyone participating and stays within a certain range is awarded something from the loot table.
Spam will be everywhere.
@Logain I do believe the worlds will be setup with resources in tiers. I doubt the developers would put tier 10 (or whatever the highest tier will be) resources in the spawn areas. Generally you do want to persuade the population to venture out and to do that you have higher tiered resources further away.
@tulukaruk there are open world bosses that do have pvp around them. WoW doesn't have open dungeons.
@Finland No! I'm not talking about those mobs. Pre-Legion event had 4 waves of NPCs Legion demons that would invade a specific area. Anyone from level 1 to 100 could attack the mobs. Everyone participating was awarded loot based on their level. First wave was minor minions, second wave high a few mini-bosses, third had mostly mini-bosses and the final wave had 1 major boss. There were horde and alliance, some flagged most not, participating in the events because it was the best way to level.
-
@jetah said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@Logain I do believe the worlds will be setup with resources in tiers. I doubt the developers would put tier 10 (or whatever the highest tier will be) resources in the spawn areas. Generally you do want to persuade the population to venture out and to do that you have higher tiered resources further away.
I think what he is referring to is that progression is through exploration, not grinding. So you may want to go to a certain location, not because you are now at that 'level' but because you need to gain knowledge points. I believe his reference to tiered gear was an example of mechanics in a typical mmo. There probably will be areas with rarer crafting resources with denser or stronger enemies, but nothing is stopping a new player from going there other than knowledge and skill.
-
omg why do I keep reading this thread?
-
I personally like instanced raids and dungeons and hope they utilize them.
-
@jetah said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
(...)I do believe the worlds will be setup with resources in tiers. I doubt the developers would put tier 10 (or whatever the highest tier will be) resources in the spawn areas. Generally you do want to persuade the population to venture out and to do that you have higher tiered resources further away.
I'm going to provide you with some quotes here:
'The item system of Fractured strongly empathizes equipment replaceability (...) The geographic distribution of resources will play a big role in this (...) there will be bosses, rare resources and rare items, but they are not the core of progression in Fractured. You aim will be to learn as many things as you can so you can vary your build as much as possible, and to have a steady supply of materials (not only for crafting - food as well!) for your everyday life (...) your character will be already competitive on day one.' ¹
'Different gear is suggested according to the region you want to explore - that's mostly related to the weather system and temperature (...)
Different gear is also suggested according to your role in battle and the foes you expect to face.
In a nutshell, gear is situational - higher availability makes you stronger. As with the Knowledge System, progression is horizontal rather than vertical.' ²
'One thing we're very set on is that floods of hostile creatures and senseless attack spamming are not our thing. In general, our orientation is to have a more "strategic" combat than the average ARPG - mixing the hectic fun of the genre with the tactical depth of the MOBA genre. This on course means fewer enemies and an overall slower pace (...)' ³And for the thread in general:
'(...)Dungeons, like the rest of the world, are going to be accessible by any player at any time. There are going to be no "private instances" of any kind.(...)' ¹
'(...)Moreover, open world hotspots and events will play a very important role in your everyday gameplay, often more than dungeons.(...)' ²
-
If they don’t put tiers of resources, even it’s just a minimum of 2, then what point,other than skills, would a beastkin leave the protected area? I believe the protected are will have resources because it gives the natives something to do during an invasion.
I still see the worlds being built with at least two tiers. Tier one will be toward the inner areas proabably where people will spawn. Tier two will be placed where invaders will teleport in to promote conflict. Now the areas where these are could be half the planet or maybe there will be a void between them.
-
I do hope they have multiple tiers of resources and a few that are unique (or beyond rare in other zones) to each world to encourage traveling between.
-
@jetah the point to leave the safe area will be discover new knowledge spells and gather resources that are not on Arboreus. Prometheus said already that they will not develop starting safe area and pvp end game area ;). The point of that is avoid people ganking those dislike to be ganked.
There's already a game that have tier rources split by zones. Like t1-t3 safe area. T4-t5 pvp area without full loot. T6-t8 full loot area. This means that people are forced to go there for end game. That's a bad design for those who dislike to be brutally ganked.
I think in fractured we'll get different types of resouces. Like safe areas (arboreus) you will find basic resource plus A-B-C. Syndesia basic resources plus D-E-F. Tartaros you will find basic resources plus G-H. I think will be something like this. Some craftable things will require a mixed resources so people will have to travel. I also hope that gear (equip) will have a low impact on the combat.
-
And it was said that the resources on other planets would give more power. Again it’s pointless to travel if there isn’t a use for those resources.
If one country doesn’t have stone they don’t make items that need it.
Maybe the planet resources change the visual of the item then I could see them being wanted.
-
@jetah I dont think its about tier but rather combinations. They said weather will environment will have an effect on gameplay. Its possible that different combinations of resources create different types of equipment, giving you access to otherwise restricted areas. Its not that one type is stronger or better, but more suited for certain situations. Therefore, yes you could stay in your safe area if you so desired, but your spell count and knowledge is going to be minimised because of it. This way they encourage exploration for those who wish to take the risk and become 'stronger' and those who don't wont be able to attain everything.
-
@jetah said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
(...)And it was said that the resources on other planets would give more power(...)
Where did they state that?
@jetah said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
(...)Again it’s pointless to travel if there isn’t a use for those resources(...)
The 'use' is the same as the 'use' for acquiring new knowledge, being able to extend into regions where your equipment can 'counter' some of the difficulties there, like @Miffi already explained.
If you think about it from a different perspective, you could ask yourself, why do you want to reach 'max level' in a level-progression based game? I'd argue it is because it allows you to consume the 'end game content', be it PvP or PvE.
The motivation is no different in Fractured, you can now consume more content, both PvP and PvE wise, only the way you reach that goal differs.
-
@jetah said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
And it was said that the resources on other planets would give more power.
Haven't red it. I prolly missed it so please quote that part and add a ref link.
Maybe the planet resources change the visual of the item then I could see them being wanted.
Yeah I hope on something like that. Cosmetic/vanity over attributes. This way making items optional. More appetizing but not necessary.
-
The only lore wise way to implement an instanced dungeon in an open world mmo that I can think of, is a god beaming you to some special place where you are about to take a trial. This could be implemented as a means to acquire some god specific knowledge. Other than that, you could have in game mechanics that sort of limit access to certain areas (for ex. moon phases cause flux and flood the access point for a limited time). Still I think it's good that the game does not pursuit instanced content. Campers can get counterganked. So, instead of wining, people should get organised. It's not an MMO if it's not a community. Besides, i find it outrageous that people suggest they'd rather be gathering resources in a safe spot instead of jumping to the defense while their home city is being invaded by daemons. This MAKES NO SENSE! It's not like those invasions happen all the time, anyway!
-
@darian fighting mobs and players at the same time makes me lose interest in killing mobs. Or I do pvp or I do pve, I really dislike the mix. Also hate griefers bringing to you lots of mobs while you gather around just to easy kill you.
