Stance on RNG Loot Boxes
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Cosmetics wise, I also prefer fixed cosmetic items with fixed prices just directly sold in shop.
I never liked gambling, specially when you even don't know what actual chances you have. But even with chances known, I don't like it.
I like to see the item and it's price and then consider if it's worth it for me to spend X of currency to get Y item.
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@gothix said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
If you are able to spend real cash to purchase cosmetics, and then exchange those cosmetics for in game currency, followed by buying best gear from crafters in game. This would create an enormous P2W advantage.
No it wouldn't lmfao. So many people make up this wild fantasy P2W scenario that is completely at odds with the reality of every actual game that lets players trade cash shop items.
- Cash shop items do not consistently and instantly sell, because you need to find someone who wants the specific item you're selling. The more commonly desired the cash shop item, the less it's worth and the harder it will be to get someone to buy it from you and not from someone else. Trading cash shop items is simply not a reliable way to make ingame money, and nobody uses them as such
- Cash shop items do not generate value, because the ingame money the items are sold for, and the hypothetical "best gear" bought with that money, must still be generated by players beforehand by playing the game, cash shop or no cash shop.
- Any game that gives a noticeable PVP advantage because you went from max level with decent gear to max level with "best gear" is already a badly made game regardless of how you get that gear
Your ad hominem conspiracy theory about "causing P2W", in addition to being a projection, falls flat when you consider that I am dirt poor and can't buy anything in any MMO.
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- even if you ONLY sold one single cosmetic item for in game currency, you are already gearing that much faster then a player that didn't (the more you sell, the faster you gear)
- better gear DOES provide more stats then worse gear, and even if you have ONLY one single stat more then another player that has one stat less, you are already that much in advantage over him (the more stats you have, the bigger the advantage)
The fact that degree of advantage you can gain by re selling cosmetics can be more or less severe (depending on how hard is to re sell items, and how big the gap is between lower and higher gear) does not negate the fact that re selling cosmetic DOES offer a degree of P2W.
You DO gear up faster, and you DO get more stats faster, compared to the players that do not re sell cosmetics.
(read the rest of my post)
Have fun.
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@gothix gear will not influence the combat like you hope. I'm curious to test it. I really hope to see something like a pvp moba experience. If gear would provide stats with many tiers people will rage quit easly. Full loot is mostly a problem in a grindy game (Albion for example had this problem) if you make it superfluous players will care less to lose gear and will join more pvp actions. If moba would have full loot none would play them.
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@finland said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
@gothix gear will not influence the combat like you hope.
So you are basically insinuating that there will not be gear tiers. I highly doubt that. I guess we will see.
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I really dont mind that much as long as it is cosmetic only and they are not tradable. The big issues become when they give a gear advantage or can be traded for in game currency which can be traded for better gear. That quickly becomes a pay to win issue because it becomes no different that just flat out buying currency, especially in a sandbox game where the best things are all crafted from rare drops.
My guess is they are likely going to do the PoE route though, have cosmetic microtransactions with RNG boxes or you can buy it outright for a premium if you really want a specific look. The main thing is you need a method of recycling if you do RNG boxes or they need to never give duplicates. That is the big problem is when you start getting tons of useless duplicates with no value.
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@gothix I hope not tho. Gear should be obtenible in few mins like for moba otherwise player will not play this game. Me neither, I dropped Albion cause I had to spend more time on collecting gears than the time spent on fighting. Mobs does not drop gear btw ;). I hope that will be just a skill base game like a moba ehere you sort out you skills to make a build that suits better for you and you join the fights with a gear that looks more cool for you. Gear gap in a full loot is what makes people rage quit. Rage quit is badvfor personal health. People should play to have fun and not to get angry ;).
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as long as loot boxes aren't the only ways to get those items (or at least have those items tradeable) then I'm fine with it. If we are getting into the whole "spending irl money to gear up" then I'll just say not everyone has the time to grind for "max" gear so saying they shouldn't be allowed to keep up gear wise just because you decide to play significantly longer then them is bull, thou if all goes well it shouldn't matter anyway
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how does the gear tiers and whatnot have to do with a stance on RNG loot boxes?
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@gothix said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
I'm definitely gonna steer away if P2W RNG lootboxes end up in game.
Their cash shop is supposed to be purely cosmetic, as such the RNG lootboxes we are talking about would be like SWTOR hypercrates.
Judging from my SWTOR experience, this kind of lootboxes are a problem for two main reasons
- the RNG element
- the fact that if a dev company is making money out of cosmetic items (regardless if they are behind an RNG mechanic), the devs will focus at making new cosmetic items instead of making new gameplay content.
Those two said
- The RNG element can be bypassed. Basically you can have no lootboxes to begin with, or have lootboxes with no RNG (or reduced RNG).
- SWTOR is a theme park. Theme parks need a constant influx of new content. Fractured will be sandbox. At sandbox games, the players are making new content (see "emergent gameplay"). As such a b2p game with purely cosmetic cash shop (without RMT), is something that could succeed.
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Eh... did not know there was loot boxes, nice to note
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@serenite i agree cosmetic rng boxes would be nice to see and would encourage developers to make more fun and desirable costumes or fashion items
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2 isn't a problem if the cosmetic funds are going to content funds. Bungie created Eververse as a means to trickle rewards to users when in between content patches (or DLC) and made the claim "that use these new items to bolster the service provided by our live team for another full year.". The idea was to take the income and use it on content.
and really the only time i've seen cosmetic sales provide more cosmetics is when the game is dying.
1 why would you have a non-rng lootbox.. how.. isn't that just an item in a box, like a gift wrap?
2 Fractured is a sandbox but they have raids and dungeons so it's both.why do they need rng lootboxes to do that? why couldn't they just create it and sell the item direct?
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@jetah said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
2 Fractured is a sandbox but they have raids and dungeons so it's both.
Dungeons aren't private and I can't find anything about raids. I can't see Fractured coming even close to theme park with it's current design direction.
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@gothix said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
[a lot of utter nonsense]
Paying to get to the top faster is not P2W. It's only P2W if your top is higher than a free player's top, which in this case it is not. A top paying player and the top free player are of equal numeric strength.
The free player is actually at an advantage because, having actually played, the free player has more game experience, while the paying player skipped it expecting his gear to make up for his skill. This works in crappy MMOs that aren't skill-based, but it won't work in Fractured.
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@fibs said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
Paying to get to the top faster is not P2W. It's only P2W if your top is higher than a free player's top, which in this case it is not. A top paying player and the top free player are of equal numeric strength.
I think that comes down to a matter of speed. If it takes 2 years of grinding to get to the top vs paying and getting there now, that's 2 years of a competitive advantage(both economic and combat). That's pretty p2w.
The combat advantage obviously won't be there in Fractured, but I can see one form where an economic advantage could get you unfairly ahead: settlement building. If a guild can use irl money to purchase resources that allows them to get vastly upgraded buildings, making their settlement harder to siege, that would give them a big advantage over other guilds that aren't spending.
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@target said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
I think that comes down to a matter of speed. If it takes 2 years of grinding to get to the top vs paying and getting there now, that's 2 years of a competitive advantage(both economic and combat). That's pretty p2w.
If it takes two years of grinding the game is already not worth playing long before it adds anything resembling P2W.
The combat advantage obviously won't be there in Fractured, but I can see one form where an economic advantage could get you unfairly ahead: settlement building. If a guild can use irl money to purchase resources that allows them to get vastly upgraded buildings, making their settlement harder to siege, that would give them a big advantage over other guilds that aren't spending.
It absolutely would not, because the ingame money they are getting for their cash goods is the exact same money that other players already have and also need to spend on the same top gear and guild expenses.
Ingame money doesn't come from nowhere. Someone has to spend "2 years" to grind up the ingame money and the (cosmetic and ultimately useless) cash shop items have to compete with all of those goods for the buyers' money - all the while, cash shop items will drop in value and the goods cash shoppers are buying will go up, balancing themselves out.
You could point to gold bots, but every game I've ever played has had the economy ruined by gold bots within a few months of launch, whether it has a tradeable cash shop or not.
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@fibs said in Stance on RNG Loot Boxes:
The combat advantage obviously won't be there in Fractured, but I can see one form where an economic advantage could get you unfairly ahead: settlement building. If a guild can use irl money to purchase resources that allows them to get vastly upgraded buildings, making their settlement harder to siege, that would give them a big advantage over other guilds that aren't spending.
It absolutely would not, because the ingame money they are getting for their cash goods is the exact same money that other players already -- have -- and also need to spend on the same top gear and guild expenses.
All guilds have expenses.
Also "exact same money that other players already HAD" cause they passed it on to cash shoppers. Also cash shoppers can grind their own money (like non CS players) + CS as an extra so...CS player = in game money grind (example 100) + money from selling CS items (example 50) = 150 - guild expenses (example 20) = 130
non CS player = in game money grind (example 100) - money from buying CS items (example 50) = 50 - guild expenses (example 20) ) 30So we have CS player having 130 monthly income, and non CS player having 30 monthly income.
So my question to you is: do you just pretend to not understand this (hoping to push P2W into the game), or you just skipped math class in school all the time?
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So about RNG boxes. I heavily dislike them, in any shape of form.
